Hello.
Due some bad rolls, our party's tank, a cavalier, is dominated, and attacked us at a crucial moment.
(as if a Yangethe alone wasn't enough)
Now, if the caster of the Dominate spell, Yangethe in this case, uses a strong harmful ability that also hurts the cavalier, does that cause them to snap back to their senses?
We just might survive if so.
No, but the Cavalier gets a new saving throw every time he's ordered to do something against his nature.
Subjects resist this control, and any subject forced to take actions against its nature receives a new saving throw with a +2 bonus. Obviously self-destructive orders are not carried out. Once control is established, the range at which it can be exercised is unlimited, as long as you and the subject are on the same plane. You need not see the subject to control it.
This means ordering the Cavalier to attack his friends would prompt a new saving throw with a +2 bonus (though if he fails the save he'll continue attacking his friends till he passes out). If the villain instead orders him to "Defend me" he wouldn't get this extra save, though he'd be able to nerf himself a little in combat (use combat maneuvers and non-lethal damage against his party or something similar).
If the villain casts a Wall of Fire and then tells the Cavalier to charge through it the Cavalier can just ignore that order, though I believe he doesn't receive a new save for that scenario.
EDIT: Ninja'd
slap him with protection from (evil\good\etc depend on the caster opposed) - never leave home without it!
Command was indeed worded as 'defend me', which could easily be hampering our efforts, but the cavalier is straightforward applying deadly force.
Maybe worth knowing, the cavalier is a (for the time being) botted PC. (Sadly failed new save after a prot from evil)
Would this be a stretch of what is plausible?
I'm not sure what specifically you're asking about being plausible, if you just mean the dominated cavalier defending the NPC who dominated the cavalier and kicking the party's but....no.
That's basically the optimal use of dominate.
However, the cavalier should probably be using less lethal options if available to them, though depending on build may not have such options reasonably available. By which I mean, a character that doesn't have any combat maneuver feats probably shouldn't attempt to use maneuvers, as that would be a metagame action on the players part knowing it would likely be ineffective.
As long as the dominate is functioning, in my opinion the character should fight as best they can.
Everything looks correct to me. Dominate is brutal when it lands.
Ok. I'll be saying my prayers to lady luck and hope for the best.
Thanks for the replies.
If it comes to it your party can retreat. The Cavalier is under no compulsion to persue the party, so if in dire straits just stop attacking the villain and bug out.
You may be leaving the Cavalier to a grousome fate, but a character death is preferable to a total party kill.
However, the cavalier should probably be using less lethal options if available to them, though depending on build may not have such options reasonably available. By which I mean, a character that doesn't have any combat maneuver feats probably shouldn't attempt to use maneuvers, as that would be a metagame action on the players part knowing it would likely be ineffective.
I slightly disagree with this. I think the Cavalier would try to use non-lethal options against their own party - at least to begin with. Defending the villain by murdering their close friends would count as "against their nature" for most PCs.
This doesn't mean that they can't do it, just that it wouldn't be their go-to strategy. If it is their go-to then they should get that extra will save whej the command comes.
Since Chyrone seems fairly worried about the Cavalier turning on the party I'm assuming the rest of the party aren't built for melee combat, so even untrained combat maneuvers may be fairly effective.
... now this is where the problems come up, what does it mean by new attempts in regards to dominate?? for example lets say i told him to kill his teammates and he failed the new save for doing something against his nature. now after that order is out and he is attacking them someone hits him with a protection, i don't need to give a "new order" he already has his command to kill, does he keep killing? some people say yes some people say no. i'm not 100% myself but it seems to imply he keeps killing as that command is already "locked in." i just can't get him to do anything new after.
No, the Dominate effect is suppressed by the Protection from evil spell (assuming he passed the new save).
Second, the subject immediately receives another saving throw (if one was allowed to begin with) against any spells or effects that possess or exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment [charm] effects and enchantment [compulsion] effects, such as charm person, command, and dominate person. This saving throw is made with a +2 morale bonus, using the same DC as the original effect. If successful, such effects are suppressed for the duration of this spell. The effects resume when the duration of this spell expires. While under the effects of this spell, the target is immune to any new attempts to possess or exercise mental control over the target. This spell does not expel a controlling life force (such as a ghost or spellcaster using magic jar), but it does prevent them from controlling the target. This second effect only functions against spells and effects created by evil creatures or objects, subject to GM discretion.
So the compulsion to kill your teammates is supressed, no new compulsions can be made for the duration of Protection From Evil, and no other Evil creatures can even attempt to control the protected creature (or rather the attempt automatically fails). When the PfE spell ends the compulsion resumes and the previously-warded creature resumes killing his friends (with no save at this point, that save has already been rolled and failed).