The Grikkitog is this nightmarish creature that implants itself in stone and brings the stone to life as a weapon.
How do you run it? Do you make the players roll the DC 41 perception check to find the location where it implanted its core while it attacks in a 120 foot radius wherever there is stone? Or do you make it so the core is obviously visible once it starts attacking?
It seems that this creature once implanted would be able attack in a 120 foot radius wherever there is stone and the players could not attack the main creature until they found it with a DC 41 perception check.
This makes the creature extremely dangerous, especially with its Barbed Maw ability that holds whatever it hits in place.
I would love to know what other DMs experience is running this creature. I've run it one time before and it really demoralized the group. It took them some lucky rolls to find the main core.
Even if they can't locate the core, a successful check to identify the monster will let the players not they basically just need to avoid standing on/near rocks/earth.
It's a CR 14 creature, so it's not going to 1 shot people. Supposing it does make 3 attacks against your PC you're still going to have an opportunity to react and potentially get out of the area before it can kill you. And then the jig is up, unless it decide to stop being melded with the rock.
The only problem is whether or not the PCs get immobilized. If they do then it becomes a dangerous situation.
So you would have them make a DC 41 Deception check to find the implanted core even after it started attacking before they can harm the main creature?
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42wcg?How-do-you-Grikkitog#1
Yeah, this is a weird one. I think using a DC 41 perception check is OK... *if* you ignore the normal Seek area sizes. If you limit them to 30 foot cones or 15 foot bursts? Underground with a 120 foot radius? Forget about it.
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42wcg?How-do-you-Grikkitog#1
Yeah, this is a weird one. I think using a DC 41 perception check is OK... *if* you ignore the normal Seek area sizes. If you limit them to 30 foot cones or 15 foot bursts? Underground with a 120 foot radius? Forget about it.
I did the same thing. My players were about to run, but the rogue managed to spot it. It's a TPK monster. Even the barbed maw ability is hard to escape, especially for non-martials. So you spend time in the area trying to get other PCs out as it rips everyone apart.
There is an encounter in this AP with two of them against a lvl 13 party. Pretty nuts. DM is going to really have to fudge the encounter to allow them to escape with no luck as the creature doesn't even need line of effect to see and attack the PCs. The entire area they are in is stone. Just a real nightmare encounter.
If you run this creature by the rules, even an 18 wisdom ranger or rogue with Master Perception at lvl 13 is only +23,which would require an 18 or better if seeking in the right area. I don't think this particular creature is very well balanced unless is clear you can see it once it starts attacking if you have line of effect to it.
I may run it that way as that would make it a creature the party can fight and survive. I think I may write up a more reasonable rule for finding it once it's attacking.
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I'd probably also run it with "ignore the seek distance and just roll perception check for entire area to spot direction/location of the core" since uh...
...Well as far as I can see, nothing prevents this monster's core being INSIDE the earth right? Since it can just manifests eyes in stone in its 120 area? So it could be underground making it really hard to reach even if you notice it.
...Its one of those monsters that feel more like hazard or something you survive rather than something you defeat. Like you either need to lure creature out or have some way to reach it if its under the ground.
I guess using seek action with distance rules is plausible way to run encounter as long you assume goal isn't "beat up the creature" but for players to figure it out and escape. Either way I don't think this creature can be beaten without luring it out somehow since its just that dangerous. Though to be fair, its completely neutralized by party being able to fly and freedom of movement also helps counter barbed maw.(its bite has magical trait, but I don't see barbed maw ability being listed as magical, so freedom of movement would counteract)
Soo umm yeah. Weird monster. I guess I loop back to beginning: If intention of encounter IS to kill the monster, I'd just allow players locating it with single roll. Only reason I'd run seeking it 100% by raw is to hamper in how horrifying monster is and force players to get creative to lure it out(they are high levels, so there should be some options. But I'm not sure how you could get large amount of water to soak/drown it ;P)
(it is definitely monster you should only use with extreme caution or if you know how your party will react)
Are you able to hurt it by striking at its manifestations? Even if they vanish at the end of its turn, is it possible to perform reactions against it? That would also make it a little less painful.
They cannot attack the manifestations. Only the core, which at least much be implanted in a manner where it is on the surface of the stone.
I run this encounter on my previous session and it was not so hard for PCs, though they managed to find it on round 2 or 3 - I just didn't notice that it has higher deception for imitating stone so I checked against DC 37 which my party beated easily once all started to look for it. 2 of my players almost dropped to 0 but the rest 3 of them eliminated the creature - partially because it is not immune to precision damage.https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42wcg?How-do-you-Grikkitog#1
Yeah, this is a weird one. I think using a DC 41 perception check is OK... *if* you ignore the normal Seek area sizes. If you limit them to 30 foot cones or 15 foot bursts? Underground with a 120 foot radius? Forget about it.
I did the same thing. My players were about to run, but the rogue managed to spot it. It's a TPK monster. Even the barbed maw ability is hard to escape, especially for non-martials. So you spend time in the area trying to get other PCs out as it rips everyone apart.
There is an encounter in this AP with two of them against a lvl 13 party. Pretty nuts. DM is going to really have to fudge the encounter to allow them to escape with no luck as the creature doesn't even need line of effect to see and attack the PCs. The entire area they are in is stone. Just a real nightmare encounter.
If you run this creature by the rules, even an 18 wisdom ranger or rogue with Master Perception at lvl 13 is only +23,which would require an 18 or better if seeking in the right area. I don't think this particular creature is very well balanced unless is clear you can see it once it starts attacking if you have line of effect to it.
I may run it that way as that would make it a creature the party can fight and survive. I think I may write up a more reasonable rule for finding it once it's attacking.
37 reduces the roll to a 14, which is much easier. Once your party finds it, not so hard to kill. It's the high roll for locating and the fact it can attack through stone in a 120 foot radius with no line of effect required that makes it rough. So your party has to figure out where it is to even seek in the right area.
What is even scarier is that the creature is smart enough to run away and almost impossible for a PC to catch if it does. If that thing holds a grudge and starts harrying the PCs when they try to sleep... Woof.
What is even scarier is that the creature is smart enough to run away and almost impossible for a PC to catch if it does. If that thing holds a grudge and starts harrying the PCs when they try to sleep... Woof.
I mean just make sure not to sleep on/near rock/earth.
It might not be comfortable, but sleeping up a tree would be feasible.
You basically just need to be far enough away from rock/earth that it can't get to you while implanted.
Of course, if you get a couple of these while exploring a deep cave you could be in for a hurting.
What is even scarier is that the creature is smart enough to run away and almost impossible for a PC to catch if it does. If that thing holds a grudge and starts harrying the PCs when they try to sleep... Woof.I mean just make sure not to sleep on/near rock/earth.
It might not be comfortable, but sleeping up a tree would be feasible.
You basically just need to be far enough away from rock/earth that it can't get to you while implanted.
Of course, if you get a couple of these while exploring a deep cave you could be in for a hurting.
Right, that's the thing. This is the sort of creature that shows up in the Darklands, where literally everything is rock or earth.
Like, my party fought it on the Long Walk, which is like a two week journey for most parties of mostly straighline tunnels. It is pretty common for entire chunks of adventures to take place underground. All three APs I'm currently running have at least one whole book underground. Could you imagine getting through an adventure while one of these actively hunts you?
I did some reading and thinking on how to run this creature.
I've decided the following:
1. Implant Core: This allows them to Impersonate Stone, but is not a greater invisibility effect. The main advantage I am providing the creature is a guaranteed 41 initiative.
2. The creature does not remain implanted indefinitely. It has to breathe, move, eat, and hunt.
3. As I see it the DC4 1 initiative and ability to remain hidden if not attacking if it so desires is the main advantage of implant core. Once it is active and attacking, the PCs know where the main core is to attack as long as they have line of sight to it.
That's how I ran it and it is a tough fight, but much more in line with a Challenge 14 fight.
I view it as the room coming to life with a sort of central set of eyes and mouth that the party can attack.
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It's a shame there is so much ambiguity and confusion. It is one of the most interesting creatures in the bestiary.
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Are you able to hurt it by striking at its manifestations? Even if they vanish at the end of its turn, is it possible to perform reactions against it? That would also make it a little less painful.They cannot attack the manifestations. Only the core, which at least much be implanted in a manner where it is on the surface of the stone.
Why can't they attack the manifestations? Does it explicitly say so somewhere?
Otherwise, I think I'd apply this line from the CRB:
Sometimes part of a creature extends beyond its space, such as if a giant octopus is grabbing you with its tentacles. In that case, the GM will usually allow attacking the extended portion, even if you can’t reach the main creature.
I didn't want to post about it when I saw this thread yesterday, because I didn't remember if it was something official or if it was something I made up for my group, but I agree with Ascalaphus. In this case, perhaps the manifestations can't be attacked just anything because they appear and disappear, but even then, I'd at least allow characters to use reactions or readied actions to attack the manifestations.
Also, but this is more of a gm's call thing, I'd give players a bonus to perception if they can go higher to get some vantage point and figure out where the aura with eyes extends to. Maybe I'd even let someone add Intelligence instead of Wisdom to their perception check if the players actually think of doing that.
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Its that weird issue of "Does every monster need to be able to be defeated in straight fight?"
Like, in dungeon crawling style of game, players believe often that all enemies need to be defeatable since you don't complete dungeon unless you defeat all monsters you encounter.(with exception of gimmick immortal monsters or such) Though to be fair I've seen plenty of players who don't care about that but I do think its real issue with expectation.
Though there is also bit of problem of "How DO you defeat Grikkitog in its natural environment creatively?" like sure if its in metal dungeon in room with earthen soil, figuring out how to defeat it isn't TOO bad as its movement is limited. But if its in rocky valley or desert, how do you exactly lure it out and prevent it escaping? I mean, unless you can somehow melt rock into glass, not much you can do unless you are powerful enough to terraform area somehow.
Otherwise I guess best ways to defeat monster is to locate it, hope its in location that is visible from surface and use enchantment spells to force it to move open :P
(That said, it is STILL monster that is super easy to ignore so unless player's specific mission is to hunt it out, they can be like "Well we aren't touching this thing" So it does kinda balance it out because there are ways to at least counter it even if it doesn't help with straight up defeating it.)
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Even if they can't locate the core, a successful check to identify the monster will let the players not they basically just need to avoid standing on/near rocks/earth.Well, sure, but fleeing or avoiding a monster isn't exactly the normal expected outcome, and won't count as a successful resolution of the encounter for many players.
If you assume the players will want to engage in combat with the monster, how would that change your reply?
It's a CR 14 creature, so it's not going to 1 shot people.You mean it won't one-shot level 13 heroes?
Supposing it does make 3 attacks against your PC you're still going to have an opportunity to react and potentially get out of the area before it can kill you. And then the jig is up, unless it decide to stop being melded with the rock.
The only problem is whether or not the PCs get immobilized. If they do then it becomes a dangerous situation.
Again, I feel you're only looking at the monster's usage by this specific adventure. But a Grikkitog is a general level 14 creature, and there's nothing to suggest a GM wouldn't use it as a more normal monster encounter, i.e. one where the party is expected to defeat the monster.
I believe the OP's line of questioning is more focused on this scenario.
I.e. I believe the discussion is more fruitful if it does not restrict itself to the "you can just walk away" argument. Thanks.
I did indeed mean it wont one shot level 13 PCs.
assuming the PCs want to engage in combat doesn't change my response. Sometimes it's dumb thing to do, and players need to understand that it doesn't work well. Running head long into a bad situation is well...bad. Retreat. Try to lure it out of the area full of earth/rocks and make it come to you. If it doesn't, than avoiding it and living is it's own reward. I think restricting yourself to the idea that you must engage the enemy head on is the bad one. Sometimes survival is its own reward. Unless there is some plot specific necessity to kill this thing, it doesn't have to die to be overcome.
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It seems like letting players attack the manifestations is probably the easiest way to run this. It is a little weird that you can kill it by wailing on its "limb," but those will likely stay out so they can keep players grabbed with barb maw.
I feel that the worst part of this monster is that if it really wants to play dirty (and it's intelligent so it can) it can hold its breath and attack from 40 feet or so beneath the ground (max 60 if it burrows straight down).
First turn it burrows (1 turn of air)
second turn it implants (1 turn of air)
for 3 turns it can attack (doubled so 6 turns of air)
seventh turn it goes back to the surface to breath (1 turn of air)using 9 turns of air out of the 10 it has.
It can rinse and repeat pretty fast depending on how much time the DM thinks the creature need to breath on the surface.There are very few ways to attack a creature that is deeply burried.
I am very happy it's an abberation and not an elemental looking at this strategy.
This, however, doesn't work. "...it can affect earth or stone on the surface and exposed to the air only if at least part of its core is exposed as well."
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I forgot to mention it earlier, but I do actually love this monster and concept of it now that I have over course of this thread read it through in detail. That was my opinon before the concerns I mentioned earlier about not being sure how even creatiev thinking helps in this case. But yeah, I'd personally want clarification on these questions(I think monster could have actually have use for longer lore entry without changing any mechanics, I mean lore for this basically just says that its really dangerous for creatures in small gaps and mountain climbers :p)
1) can it implant itself underground or has it always be in surface or place with access to air?
2) can it implant itself in ANY stone and earth matter, including sand?
3) can you cast enchantment spells on it without targetting core as long you see it eyes?
4) does it manifesting it jaws reveal the eyes and jaws on its core at same time or does its core still say hidden?
5) are its manifestations "part of its body" or is its core only part that can be damaged?
Honestly, ruling that any manifestations that attacks you can be attacked (at least as a readied action) means that this thing isn't as terribly frightening.
That's probably how I would rule because I feel like it makes sense.
One thing to keep in mind is it doesn't have any action economy enhancers, which is unusual at this level. Barbed Maw is it's only way of keeping damage going beyond striking at -5 and -10. That means it will probably take longer than it has to live to beat a party.
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I feel that the worst part of this monster is that if it really wants to play dirty (and it's intelligent so it can) it can hold its breath and attack from 40 feet or so beneath the ground (max 60 if it burrows straight down).
First turn it burrows (1 turn of air)
second turn it implants (1 turn of air)
for 3 turns it can attack (doubled so 6 turns of air)
seventh turn it goes back to the surface to breath (1 turn of air)using 9 turns of air out of the 10 it has.
It can rinse and repeat pretty fast depending on how much time the DM thinks the creature need to breath on the surface.There are very few ways to attack a creature that is deeply burried.
I am very happy it's an abberation and not an elemental looking at this strategy.
Implant Core does state it has to have contact with a surface area to use Infestation Aura and Manifold Vision.
I honestly thing the monster is playing unfair as it it, even without resorting to extreme tactics like this. It's not like a Grikkitog has to do this to come off as deeply frustrating...
How did this fight go for your group? You're in the same part as my group. Your group should have faced this encounter. No need for spoilers, but fight details. Did they beat them easily or was it tough?
I honestly thing the monster is playing unfair as it it, even without resorting to extreme tactics like this. It's not like a Grikkitog has to do this to come off as deeply frustrating...How did this fight go for your group? You're in the same part as my group. Your group should have faced this encounter. No need for spoilers, but fight details. Did they beat them easily or was it tough?
Assuming you're thinking of the one I'm pretty sure you are... worst fight in the book.
I've run the encounter twice now, and its one of the few fights I've had to really dumb down because if you run it as RAW, the damned thing is - as noted - a TPK machine.
And the location its presented in leaves essentially nowhere to hide or avoid it.
I ran it as extremely inefficient, completely certain of its own eventual victory and essentially incapable of perceiving its own defeat - attack different targets, demoralize for no reason, run away once it took significant damage and realized it was in danger.
If you have it do nothing but focus down one character after another, its practically a guaranteed TPK.
The thing is massively unfair, and significantly unfun. There's no real counterplay for it, other than utilizing flight for as long as you can - it has a hard time attacking things not adjacent to stone.
I probably should have just removed it for my second party, but I was curious if they'd have a better time with it.
They did not.
I honestly thing the monster is playing unfair as it it, even without resorting to extreme tactics like this. It's not like a Grikkitog has to do this to come off as deeply frustrating...How did this fight go for your group? You're in the same part as my group. Your group should have faced this encounter. No need for spoilers, but fight details. Did they beat them easily or was it tough?Assuming you're thinking of the one I'm pretty sure you are... worst fight in the book.
I've run the encounter twice now, and its one of the few fights I've had to really dumb down because if you run it as RAW, the damned thing is - as noted - a TPK machine.
And the location its presented in leaves essentially nowhere to hide or avoid it.
I ran it as extremely inefficient, completely certain of its own eventual victory and essentially incapable of perceiving its own defeat - attack different targets, demoralize for no reason, run away once it took significant damage and realized it was in danger.
If you have it do nothing but focus down one character after another, its practically a guaranteed TPK.
The thing is massively unfair, and significantly unfun. There's no real counterplay for it, other than utilizing flight for as long as you can - it has a hard time attacking things not adjacent to stone.
I probably should have just removed it for my second party, but I was curious if they'd have a better time with it.
They did not.
This monster occurs in both new APs. Both in bad areas. I know you you've been running of Age of Ashes. That fight was bad. It's even worse in Extinction Curse. If you run Extinction Curse, you'll just want to change them into something else. That's why I decided to run the Implant Core impersonate as a guaranteed initiative boost versus a 4th level [i]invisibility[i] effect. To me it's the only way a Grikktog Challenge 14 makes sense in my opinion.
Just so we're on the same page here, Krispy and Deriven - I'm talking about the encounter called...
That's silly and crazy.
Ugh.
Definitely would change that one if I were running it...
Please use spoiler tags when discussing specifics of adventures.
I have yet to run a fight with one, but since it shows up in the AP I'm running I am glad to have read the comments here. Hopefully my party will decide not to continue the fight if it seems things don't go their way.
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A few things:
1) The fact that RAW it can attack while being hidden under 25+ feet of stone without LoS or LoE is EXTREMELY problematic on the scope of a Creature being able to attack PCs while not even being on the material plane.
2) The fact that is suggests that it should or can stay disguised/hidden ever after attacks makes this creature nearly impossible to fight.
I'm feeling like they intended for the G to be "surfaced" in order to attack and that they should also have their disguise automatically drop after every Attack/Maw Action. They should be free to freely move into the stone again and force a Seek if the party is going to find it again as a hit and run type of tactic but as it stands it is more like a permanent Ability that lets them Earth Glide, ignore all LoS and LoE, gain Greater Cover at all times, an IMMENSE bonus to Disguise/Stealth checks, and also eliminate any penalties related to attacking while hidden/concealed/disguised.
In short, this monster indeed does punch WELL above its level to the tune of +4-5 levels given that very VERY few parties will even have the tools to locate let alone fight back aginst such a creature with what essentially is insumountable defenses for corporeal beings. I feel that there were unspoken assumptions about how they should be run and also a failure to note any significant drawbacks or weaknesses in their tactics. TPK machine indeed.
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I think this is the most important sentence in the stat block:
This effect spreads even if the grikkitog does not have line of effect, though it can affect earth or stone on the surface and exposed to the air only if at least part of its core is exposed as well.
It cannot fight foes on the surface without being exposed on the surface itself. The party needs to find it, but they do have access to True Seeing at this level (in Age of Ashes at least). The real danger comes if the core is implanted very far away from where the party is, especially if the party doesn't have line of sight. It's still powerful, but not as powerful as some are making it out to be.
I think this is the most important sentence in the stat block:
This effect spreads even if the grikkitog does not have line of effect, though it can affect earth or stone on the surface and exposed to the air only if at least part of its core is exposed as well.It cannot fight foes on the surface without being exposed on the surface itself. The party needs to find it, but they do have access to True Seeing at this level. It's still powerful, but not as powerful as some are making it out to be.
It's very important, yes, and captures the spirit of the encounter. Yay!
Unfortunately it leaves space for abuse. The monster can be on the other side of a wall, as long as it's exposed to the air. As in, it doesn't necessarily need to be exposed to the same body of air!
That's problematic, though again, I think the implication is strong enough that yes, the creature's supposed to be vulnerable when it's attacking.
It could still hit & run, but burrowers already can.*
*Imagine badgers or similar doing that! :)
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I think this is the most important sentence in the stat block:
This effect spreads even if the grikkitog does not have line of effect, though it can affect earth or stone on the surface and exposed to the air only if at least part of its core is exposed as well.It cannot fight foes on the surface without being exposed on the surface itself. The party needs to find it, but they do have access to True Seeing at this level (in Age of Ashes at least). The real danger comes if the core is implanted very far away from where the party is, especially if the party doesn't have line of sight. It's still powerful, but not as powerful as some are making it out to be.
Why would True Seeing help?
The Grikkitog relies on neither Illusions or Transmutation to remain undetected. True Seeing has zero effect on it.
Besides, as noted, it must be exposed to air - but that's not at all the same thing "be at all exposed to the party reasonably finding it or being able to attack it".
It could be seven rooms over, in the closet, behind a Good Lock, with a mound of rubble piled against the door - or whatever.
Or, once discovered it could leave for 30 seconds, implant somewhere else, and resume the process of murdering the party until they make another DC 41 seek check pointed directly at the undetected core.
"You see things within 60 feet as they actually are." Maybe that's not RAW, but I'd let my players see through disguises with it.
And I know it's dangerous from other rooms, that's why I mentioned it in the post you quoted.
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Looks pretty unbeatable as currently worded and when played guerilla style...
Apart from that low level options could include Detect Alignment to locate it (if you happen to be close enough at all), point out and another char hits it with Faerie Fire to highlight it for 5 Minutes even in case of eventual relocation (within sight).
Apart from this I am not quite sure how Impersonate interacts with other senses e.g. Scent (still considering the core is in the same room as the heroes). Are dogs useless versus somebody that successfully impersonates even if they know the person?
Looks pretty unbeatable as currently worded and when played guerilla style...
Apart from that low level options could include Detect Alignment to locate it (if you happen to be close enough at all), point out and another char hits it with Faerie Fire to highlight it for 5 Minutes even in case of eventual relocation (within sight).
Apart from this I am not quite sure how Impersonate interacts with other senses e.g. Scent (still considering the core is in the same room as the heroes). Are dogs useless versus somebody that successfully impersonates even if they know the person?
The fact that it uses Impersonate instead of Sneak or Hide (and Stealth) negates all sorts of strategies for finding and fighting it.
Its not concealed, hidden, or undetected - its just straight up indistinguishable from the rock around it. You can absolutely see it - the problem is that what you see is an absolutely normal stone. Theres no indication, at all, that any of the things that would normally break "Stealth" would inherently reveal it.
And it does it without using "magic" - it lacks any and all traits that would indicate any sort of supernatural detection or trace (as in, Detect Magic or attempts to counteract magical concealment- Detect Alignment, as noted, should be good) would work. I assume as an aberration, its altering reality as per unknowable alien cthulhu powers.
Its absolutely something that by RAW I think your GM either has to restrain or the players have to pray they have some method of escape.
The fact that it uses Impersonate instead of Sneak or Hide (and Stealth) negates all sorts of strategies for finding and fighting it.
Its not concealed, hidden, or undetected - its just straight up indistinguishable from the rock around it. You can absolutely see it - the problem is that what you see is an absolutely normal stone. Theres no indication, at all, that any of the things that would normally break "Stealth" would inherently reveal it.
And it does it without using "magic" - it lacks any and all traits that would indicate any sort of supernatural detection or trace would work. I assume as an aberration, its altering reality as per unknowable alien cthulhu powers.
Its absolutely something that by RAW I think your GM either has to restrain or the players have to pray they have some method of escape.
Well it has an alignment so hightened Detect Aligment will give away its location. I give you the benefit of doubt on Faerie Fire, that will possibly be subject to GM approval, however I find it quite unreasonble to be able to hide OR impersonate a common object if you glow like a candle. A perfectly normal glowing stone within the perfectly normal stone wall is usually still perfectly visible.
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Well it has an alignment so hightened Detect Aligment will give away its location. I give you the benefit of doubt on Faerie Fire, that will possibly be subject to GM approval, however I find it quite unreasonble to be able to hide OR impersonate a common object if you glow like a candle. A perfectly normal glowing stone within the perfectly normal stone wall is usually still perfectly visible.The fact that it uses Impersonate instead of Sneak or Hide (and Stealth) negates all sorts of strategies for finding and fighting it.
Its not concealed, hidden, or undetected - its just straight up indistinguishable from the rock around it. You can absolutely see it - the problem is that what you see is an absolutely normal stone. Theres no indication, at all, that any of the things that would normally break "Stealth" would inherently reveal it.
And it does it without using "magic" - it lacks any and all traits that would indicate any sort of supernatural detection or trace would work. I assume as an aberration, its altering reality as per unknowable alien cthulhu powers.
Its absolutely something that by RAW I think your GM either has to restrain or the players have to pray they have some method of escape.
I didn't bring up Faerie Fire specifically because while I think there's a RAW argument it wouldn't work, I agree with your assessment on perfectly normal glowing rocks moving about and changing locations ;)
Also Unrelenting Observation, however you need to be a) higher level than the monster, b) know where to place your spell in the first place and c) the monster needs to not critically save versus your spell.
Also Unrelenting Observation, however you need to be a) higher level than the monster, b) know where to place your spell in the first place and c) the monster needs to not critically save versus your spell.
Yeah. I updated my post mentioning "supernatural detection" to be more clear I meant stuff like detect magic and true sight, as opposed to detect alignment (which is a good idea) when i said that.
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Or perhaps your gaming group just happens to have a benevolent GM while also containing a high perception Dwarf character with the stone cunning ancestry feat? ;)