Heal, Battle Medicine, and More: how separate is the Eidolon from the Summoner?

[Tusk the Half-Orc]

The summoner and eidolon share a life force, but they don’t share a body (synthesis feat aside). Can an angel summoner cast 2-action Heal on her eidolon and gain the additional 8 hit points per spell level? Can a summoner with the Battle Medicine feat benefit from it twice in one day by using it once on the eidolon and once on herself? What about the Ward Medicine skill feat - can the summoner Treat Wounds on herself and her eidolon at the same time and benefit twice?

[Deriven Firelion]

Lots of strange interactions with rules to work out.

What about intimidation? Are you both immune if it fails or just the eidolon? So now you have two chances of having your saves and hit rolls reduced by Intimidate since any effect that limits your saving throws or you or the eidolon's attack rolls limits your effective actions. Two chances of Scare to Death?

Imagine what happens if the eidolon is affected by Bon Mot, but the summoner is not then gets hit by phantasmal calamity, then you have an even higher chance of getting hammered by the spell for a critical fail taking both you and the eidolon out. Really any effect on either the summoner or eidolon when hit by an AoE attack has a higher chance of a critical fail if it hits both the summoner and eidolon.

[TheGentlemanDM]

Can an angel summoner cast 2-action Heal on her eidolon and gain the additional 8 hit points per spell level? Yes. It's worth noting you could just self target with this anyway.

Can a summoner with the Battle Medicine feat benefit from it twice in one day by using it once on the eidolon and once on herself? This one's trickier, but I'd lean towards yes at the moment.

What about the Ward Medicine skill feat - can the summoner Treat Wounds on herself and her eidolon at the same time and benefit twice? This one's a no. Ward Medicine works as a single effect, and Summoners and Eidolons can't benefit twice from a single effect.

What about intimidation? Are you both immune if it fails or just the eidolon? You're separate creatures for the purpose of Demoralize. Status effects/debuffs/etc only affect both of you if they affect your action economy. Quickened, Slowed, Stunned, Paralyzed.

Imagine what happens if the eidolon is affected by Bon Mot, but the summoner is not then gets hit by phantasmal calamity, then you have an even higher chance of getting hammered by the spell for a critical fail taking both you and the eidolon out. Really any effect on either the summoner or eidolon when hit by an AoE attack has a higher chance of a critical fail if it hits both the summoner and eidolon. This is a weakness, yes.

[Darksol the Painbringer]

Tusk the Half-Orc wrote:

The summoner and eidolon share a life force, but they don’t share a body (synthesis feat aside). Can an angel summoner cast 2-action Heal on her eidolon and gain the additional 8 hit points per spell level? Can a summoner with the Battle Medicine feat benefit from it twice in one day by using it once on the eidolon and once on herself? What about the Ward Medicine skill feat - can the summoner Treat Wounds on herself and her eidolon at the same time and benefit twice?

The 8 HP per spell level works regardless of distance (whether adjacent or not), or if you share the same HP. The big thing is that you're spending the two actions to get the effect. A key interaction would be if both are affected by a 3-action Heal spell, that they would only receive that healing once, even if both are within the area, as this falls under the "Affecting both with the same effect" clause.

Same thing with Battle Medicine, as it specifically refers its limitations and targeting to creatures. For this purpose, Eidolons are separate from Summoners, meaning that yes, the same pool of HP can be affected twice. Whether this is intended by the developers or not, I don't know. But since Battle Medicine only targets one creature, it doesn't fall under the "Affecting both with the same effect takes the worst result" clause.

Just like with the 3-action Heal spell, if you target both the Eidolon and the Summoner with Treat Wounds, they only receive one set of healing, even if you have feats like Ward Medic that let you treat multiple creatures at the same time. Since this is an effect that targets both the Eidolon and Summoner, they only receive the effect once. It's no different than if they were targeted with the 3-Action Heal, or a 7th level Haste. If it affects both, they only receive the benefit once period, especially if it refers to HP, actions, and MAP.

[Temperans]

So what I am hearing, is that they are not at all separate. Except for a handful of abilities. Most of which deal twice the damage to the Summoner.

[KrispyXIV]

Temperans wrote:

So what I am hearing, is that they are not at all separate. Except for a handful of abilities. Most of which deal twice the damage to the Summoner.

In not sure how you read the replies above and drew that conclusion.

They seperate for all abilities such don't target them simultaneously AND which affect HP or actions.

That means they're seperate creatures for the vast majority of purposes.

[Temperans]

The vast majority of purposes are either damage, harmful, or AoE abilities.

The few things that aren't are a few conditions that affect attributes. With the Summoner unable to use most of them (Hooray only 4 spell slots). While the enemis typically get multiple.

[Tusk the Half-Orc]

Thanks, TheGentlemanDM and Darksol! I don’t know why I was sure that 2-action heal only worked on someone other than the caster; I think I assumed that the extra 8hp/level was a bonus for healing someone else. The way you distinguish Battle Medicine from 3-action heal makes sense to me as well.