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Good Evening,
I'm after a Rogue build for the Age of Ashes AP, which I'm starting in a couple of weeks.
I've only played Plaguestone in Second Edition and I was running a War Priest, so this will be the first Rogue that I've built.
I'm thinking of maybe a Half Elf with the Thief Racket. I want to use the AP backgrounds and was considering Local Scion.
I'm not into archer type builds.
Any advice/guidance would be much appreciated.
Prux
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Thief Rogue is pretty straightforward and without gimmicks so you can build them in a lot of ways and be effective with it.
Could go the most simple Rogue with stuff like Trap Finder, Underhanded Assault and Skirmisher Strike.
Or a frightened build with You're next and Dread Striker.
Getting into an archetype, like Dual Weapon Warrior to be effective with one weapon in each hand, or even more strange ones like Blessed One, spellcaster and Dandy.
One of my favorite ones is making a "Ranger" using Rogue, focusing in picking Nature and Survival feat and then picking a snarecrafter and maybe even Ranger or Horizon Walker archetypes.
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It really depends on what role(s) you will want/need to fill.
Personally, I went with a halfling thief (18 Dex, 14 Con, 16 Wis) Trapfinder / Medic (Assurance / Continual Recovery / Ward Medic as my first three skill feats) as an 'all around do-everything except Charisma/Intelligence skills (which I am still largely trained in)' build which has worked pretty well. As a human/half-human, your stat array will presumably be a bit broader (18/16/12/12/10/10 or 18/14/14/12/10/10).
Mechanically, I'm not a big fan of the campaign backgrounds: If I rebuilt my thief, I might go with the Field Medic background (instead of Emancipated) so I'd qualify for the Medic Archetype at level 2.
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I'll also say, you really can't mess up a Thief Rogue, they are a solid choice!
If your party needs a "face" then I'd be OK with going Charisma, but if the party has a cleric or sorcerer or somebody else who will be taking Charisma, then I'd skip boosting CHA too much and instead focus on CON. In my experience as a GM, Rogues aren't that tough to take down.
PF1 has trained Rogue players to want 2 weapons, but consider an agile 1h weapon and a shield. Nimble Dodge is great because it activates on a reaction not an action, BUT it only helps vs 1 attack. Not "having" to take Nimble Dodge also frees up a 1st level Rogue feat which you can use for Trap Finder, and THAT allows you to take an exploration activity other than Searching and STILL get a roll to find traps (with a bonus!) which is great for you - you can sneak, or do whatever else.
Gang Up is a level 6 feat that I would highly recommend. PF2 makes it easier on Rogues to get into flanking position, but sometimes it's still a challenge. I've seen Gang Up used to great effect; consider an enemy near death that is in reach of the fighter and rogue. The rogue could take an action to flank properly, then strike, killing it, and then stride to get near the next enemy... OR with gang up, the rogue can get the sneak attack off to kill the enemy, stride once to engage another enemy within an ally's reach, and strike again, hopefully hitting again. It makes a big difference.
Good Evening,
I'm after a Rogue build for the Age of Ashes AP, which I'm starting in a couple of weeks.
I've only played Plaguestone in Second Edition and I was running a War Priest, so this will be the first Rogue that I've built.
I'm thinking of maybe a Half Elf with the Thief Racket. I want to use the AP backgrounds and was considering Local Scion.
I'm not into archer type builds.
Any advice/guidance would be much appreciated.
Prux
I know you said you didn't like Archer builds, but what about some throwing weapons? Daggers are pretty solid and you will still get Dexterity to Damage with them since they are considered Melee weapons with the ability to throw them 10 feet at an enemy. Work towards getting Returning Throwing Knives, which have 20 feet in comparison (but are Twin and Uncommon) and can function great in melee combat as well as ranged. Not something to focus on (especially if Bows turn you off), but if you're in a situation where you can't/don't want to risk getting close, having some ranged options doesn't hurt. And if you only have 1 hand occupied, you can have both out at the same time to use as you see fit.
That being said, wielding a Rapier will give you the best damage, even if it's a bit heavy. D6 damage with Deadly D8 is nothing to scoff at, and with you focusing on flat-footed targets, you're going to have close to Fighter levels of accuracy with added Sneak Attack damage on each attack.
For attributes, besides Dexterity (obviously), you'll want some Wisdom. Failing Will Saves, raising Perception (for spotting traps as well as Initiative), and being able to tell liars, truthtellers, and so on, will be invaluable to your role. You can invest in Charisma if you want/need, but if you have a party face already, the added investment won't be too necessary. Intelligence isn't bad, if you want to get as many trained skills as possible and be able to aid/do anything non-skill-feat related, but with how many skills, skill increases, and skill feats you get (each level), it's no surprise. Constitution would probably be your next bet, since Fortitude Saves are more deadly this edition, and the added HP will help since you are squishy (light armor even with Dexterity has less AC than a Heavy Armor character, and you are only a D8 HP class with presumably no shield training or expertise).
For feats, this depends on your role in the party. If you're the only Trap guy, Trap Finder is almost invaluable, since it gives you added bonuses to find traps, and against traps if they trigger. Not to mention, you can attempt to disable most every trap in the game before it's too much for you. Want some defense? Nimble Dodge is your friend. If you have Charisma/face skills, Overextending Feint or You're Next are solid choices, especially if you choose to boost some Charisma stuff. (I'm actually a bit surprised at the lack of amazing 1st level class feats here. Don't worry, you get much better ones later.)
Half-Elf isn't bad, Elf would be a bit better for the base movespeed boost plus innate benefits (even if Constitution and Ancestry HP penalties are a bit much, I can assure you they are survivable). The ancestry feats for movement are amazing, combined with Fleet and maybe some Boots of Bounding, and you're looking at 45 movement speed by 7th level. Perfect for maneuvering around for flank/sneak attack. An ancestry that provides a Strength penalty would be a boon for you (Gnome and Halfling in particular), since they also usually boost Dexterity as well, though they are slower as a result.
Daggers are pretty solid and you will still get Dexterity to Damage with them since they are considered Melee weapons with the ability to throw them 10 feet at an enemy.
Alas, in the Rules Update they made this go away.
Page 283: In the definition for the thrown weapon trait, change the first sentence to “You can throw this weapon as a ranged attack, and it is a ranged weapon when thrown.”
Emphasis mine.
Oh damn. Disregard that then. That's kind of a shame, really.
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With Thief, choose any of the obvious weapons and you'll be fine - just learn to use Sneak Attack efficiently and you can't really fail to contribute in combat. Anything else you pick after that will pretty much work. Highly recommend Gang Up though, just less of a headache in combat overall.
Unless you got someone else in the party that can do it, I would always go the Thievery route for all the disarm trap skills as it is hard to come by otherwise. Between locks and traps and everything else you will always be great out of combat. Stealth is a given of course.
I would then think about choosing the WIS or CHA route on top of the Thievery/Stealth route - WIS works well with being a (great) Medic and got good synergy with Perception and finding traps. The bonus to Will saves is also very good. You can also go Nature/Survival/Religion here.
With CHA you can go feint/Deception route and/or demoralize/Intimidation route. Both also good and got synergies with class feats. Obviously also makes you more of a face character which is great if your party doesn't have one. Even if party got another one, it is still nearly always good, especially in Paizo campaigns.
For Ancestry, you can get by with most of them - they all got some useful things. Nothing stands out as truly amazing nor truly bad, just comes down to preference and how you envision your character.
I would try to start with CON 14 although it isn't a must - you are running around a lot to get your flanks in so might get hit by AoOs and just generally being in combat.
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With Thief, choose any of the obvious weapons and you'll be fine - just learn to use Sneak Attack efficiently and you can't really fail to contribute in combat. Anything else you pick after that will pretty much work. Highly recommend Gang Up though, just less of a headache in combat overall.
Shortswords really are the 'mechanically superior' baseline option for a Thief: 1d6 Piercing/Slashing damage for light Bulk is hard to beat.
Minor Spoiler: There are some encounters in the second module where precision damage is less effective, so your adventuring career will have a few rainy days (but only a few).And yes, Gang Up is highly recommended.
Unless you got someone else in the party that can do it, I would always go the Thievery route for all the disarm trap skills as it is hard to come by otherwise. Between locks and traps and everything else you will always be great out of combat. Stealth is a given of course.
You'll go for long periods without running into a single Trap or Lock, but when they do come up, you'll really need to handle them, and the Thief is well suited to that role.
I would then think about choosing the WIS or CHA route on top of the Thievery/Stealth route - WIS works well with being a (great) Medic and got good synergy with Perception and finding traps. The bonus to Will saves is also very good. You can also go Nature/Survival/Religion here.
With CHA you can go feint/Deception route and/or demoralize/Intimidation route. Both also good and got synergies with class feats. Obviously also makes you more of a face character which is great if your party doesn't have one. Even if party got another one, it is still nearly always good, especially in Paizo campaigns.
For Ancestry, you can get by with most of them - they all got some useful things. Nothing stands out as truly amazing nor truly bad, just comes down to preference and how you envision your character.
I would try to start with CON 14 although it isn't a must - you are running around a lot to get your flanks in so might get hit by AoOs and just generally being in combat.
Personally, I like the Wisdom build for Saves & Perception, but I could see a Charisma build working.
One thing to keep in mind is which skills you are actually going to increase as you level, as you can only* get 6 legendary skills. My own build (currently 16th level) is going to end up with:- Stealth
- Acrobatics
- Athletics
- Thievery
- Survival**
- Medicine
*Yes, I know that is twice as many as most other classes: I'm a bit spoiled as a Thief.
**This was a last minute addition to my Legendary skill list when our Ranger had to drop out of the campaign around level 12, and it recently paid off when we had a "can't succeed at this mission without a really good Tracking check" encounter.
Oh, and definitely keep your Constitution up if you are going to be in melee: The Rogue chassis is fairly fragile...
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Tonight we played our first game of Age of Ashes and I played a cavern elf (for darkvision) rogue-thief (for DEX to damage) with a rapier and a bandolier full of daggers for throwing.
10 STR
18 DEX
10 CON
16 INT (so I can take a wizard dedication at 2nd level, and have tons of skills)
12 WIS
12 CHA
It's a solid character, but with only 10 CON and 14 hit points he went down to dying condition twice, both with crits. Fort saves are not his thing either, and there were a lot of them to make. Sickened condition sucks. Hero points saved his bacon more than once.
IIRC I've got all the skills but 3 at trained, and I used them a lot.
I got one shotted by a bugbear with a javelin (crit), but even with a higher CON score I would've gone down anyway. Heck we had major problems with three goblin dogs! But the lords of d20 were against us, and we started the fight with 3 nat 1s, so can't really complain. The critical fumble deck is cruel.
Honestly, you can't go wrong with a rogue-thief and 18 DEX. After that, take what you want for flavor and your enjoyment of the character.