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Thats what you are saying trying to force and justify the bad mechanic.
There is not balance need to merge the HP pool. Its hurting the class for no reason.
I don't have the ability to 'force' anything.
I do feel like its worth arguing against changing it, since I think it fixes a lot of the issues with the original summoner variant, #1 being that it was like the Summoner had two player characters.
There seems little chance that Summoner will get something that is essentially two characters. Somewhere, we're going to have to compromise to get something we want.
If what we want is a companion that isn't terrible in combat like a Animal Companion and is a primary offensive combat option? That probably means giving up the independence of the Animal Companion being a separate being with separate defenses.
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I'm in favor of the shared HP mechanic, it's very thematic, and limiting without being a liability or a snarl.
The Eidolon is important to the Summoner, if you want to Zapp Brannigan something that's what the Summon spells are for.
Yeah, it’s pretty cool to be bonded so close to your companion that you share it’s pain. Way for mechanics to support the thematic relationship between summoner and eidolon.
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Yeah, it’s pretty cool to be bonded so close to your companion that you share it’s pain. Way for mechanics to support the thematic relationship between summoner and eidolon.I'm in favor of the shared HP mechanic, it's very thematic, and limiting without being a liability or a snarl.
The Eidolon is important to the Summoner, if you want to Zapp Brannigan something that's what the Summon spells are for.
But this is not a bonded companion. Its a summoner and something they have summoned. Its in the name. Sharing hitpoints works ok. Its just wrong.
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Its not thematic.
Its in fact anti thematic given that a the eidolon has stopped being its own creature entirely. It doesnt even get its own HP pool to try to maintain the versimilitude.
How does having a bond with their Summoner make the Eidolon stop being it's own thing. The Eidolon isn't mindless, they and their Summoner have a deep connection. That's it.
They share each other's pain, and the meta-construct of HP, how does that break verisimilitude?
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But this is not a bonded companion. Its a summoner and something they have summoned. Its in the name. Sharing hitpoints works ok. Its just wrong.Yeah, it’s pretty cool to be bonded so close to your companion that you share it’s pain. Way for mechanics to support the thematic relationship between summoner and eidolon.I'm in favor of the shared HP mechanic, it's very thematic, and limiting without being a liability or a snarl.
The Eidolon is important to the Summoner, if you want to Zapp Brannigan something that's what the Summon spells are for.
They are bonded though, and go beyond "just" being something you summoned.
summoner shared hp is an example of creating a balancing mechanic and throwing in new fluff to justify it, nothing more.
if it stays the summoner will be weaker for it, fine, whatever, witch is already weak, so is swashbuckler even if it is much better in terms of how it plays.
basically every new class h as been weaker than the original classes, wise to assume this trend will hold.
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As balancing mechanics go, shared HP works and fits into the themes of the class. 2e Summoner needs to be weaker than the original Summoner because the original Summoner was banned everywhere for being too powerful
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summoner shared hp is an example of creating a balancing mechanic and throwing in new fluff to justify it, nothing more.Lifelink was a base ability in P1 Summoner.
if it stays the summoner will be weaker for it, fine, whatever, witch is already weak, so is swashbuckler even if it is much better in terms of how it plays.
basically every new class h as been weaker than the original classes, wise to assume this trend will hold.
lol wut
summoner shared hp is an example of creating a balancing mechanic and throwing in new fluff to justify it, nothing more.Lifelink was a base ability in P1 Summoner.lol wutif it stays the summoner will be weaker for it, fine, whatever, witch is already weak, so is swashbuckler even if it is much better in terms of how it plays.
basically every new class h as been weaker than the original classes, wise to assume this trend will hold.
it is absolutely true
I prefer having as few things to track between two bodies as possible. So the shared HP thing is preferable assuming it's not causing problems.
I prefer having as few things to track between two bodies as possible. So the shared HP thing is preferable assuming it's not causing problems.
yes...that would be an issue wouldnt it...
I prefer having as few things to track between two bodies as possible. So the shared HP thing is preferable assuming it's not causing problems.
Some people are saying back line people almost never get attacked so if we take there word for it, you wouldn't be doing much tracking on the summoner at all. ;)
I prefer having as few things to track between two bodies as possible. So the shared HP thing is preferable assuming it's not causing problems.Some people are saying back line people almost never get attacked so if we take there word for it, you wouldn't be doing much tracking on the summoner at all. ;)
Life is much better if the back line squish has 10+Con hp. If you get ambushed from behind, you don’t instantly lose the eidolon because your 6 hp caster got hit and fell down. The poor wizard is just out of the fight.
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The shared HP thing thematically sells the bond so effectively compared to any other mechanical possibility. Sharing HP and actions is an implementation that says that even if the eidolon is a separate creature, you two are bonded. For better or for worse. It's what separates you from every other minionmancer. It's a bond. Clerics are bound to their deities and Witches to their Patrons, but the link a Summoner and Eidolon is intimate beyond that.
You share wounds. If your eidolon is struck, you bleed. If you're shot, your eidolon feels it.
It's almost poetic.
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I'll also add in that the shared HP thing thematically sells the bond so effectively compared to any other mechanical possibility. Sharing HP and actions is an implementation that says that even if the eidolon is a separate creature, you two are bonded. For better or for worse.
You share wounds. If your eidolon is struck, you bleed. If you're shot, your eidolon feels it.
It's almost poetic.
i guess tragedies do sell.
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Life is much better if the back line squish has 10+Con hp. If you get ambushed from behind, you don’t instantly lose the eidolon because your 6 hp caster got hit and fell down. The poor wizard is just out of the fight.
Sure but it takes hits like any caster without armor AND likely with less/no actions [if it's eidolon is out scouting] and possibly senseless [if sharing senses while it scouts] so it can't take defensive activities as easily. the only thing it's missing is a 'hit me' sign on it's back. ;)
Life is much better if the back line squish has 10+Con hp. If you get ambushed from behind, you don’t instantly lose the eidolon because your 6 hp caster got hit and fell down. The poor wizard is just out of the fight.Sure but it takes hits like any caster without armor AND likely with less/no actions [if it's eidolon is out scouting] and possibly senseless [if sharing senses while it scouts] so it can't take defensive activities as easily. the only thing it's missing is a 'hit me' sign on it's back. ;)
Summoner can swap places with their eidolon. Don’t have to wait for the fighter to fill the gap or vice versa. I’d rather be hurt and able to stride away than an unconscious wizard.
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Summoner can swap places with their eidolon.
Some can and some can't: this also doesn't help if you have people attacking both. It's also NOT an option from levels 1-9.
I’d rather be hurt and able to stride away than an unconscious wizard.
This isn't a certainty in any way. For example, if you're scouting and sharing senses, you might take a full round of attack before you even get to do anything let alone striding away. Hard to roll for initiative when you have no senses.