I'll take 5 actions over 4 any day.
Yes, it drops back to 4 if I want to cast a spell - but there are a lot of other things I can do based on skills, etc. while keeping that action economy maximized.
I wish I could use the Act Together action toward Casting a Spell, but its still a great setup.
"So your not going to be able to cast a two action spell and have your eidolon move and attack on the same turn. "
I'm not sure, but think you may be able to do that, once you have Tandem Move (nesting it in Act Together):
2-action Spell -> Act Together... Eidolon: Strike, You: Tandem Move... You and Eidolon: Stride
Tandem Move is worded a bit oddly, "You and your eidolon each use a single action to Stride" is confusing, since it could be read to suggest BOTH are "using" an action "slot". But that wouldn't make sense as a Feat, since it would be no different than You and Eidolon each normally "spending" action to Stride. Notably, Act Together is phrased as "You and your eidolon each PERFORM a single action" (rather than "use") and I think Tandem Move should be similarly phrased (just constrained to Stride).
EDIT:
" if you wish to split your action economy evenly neither of you get to do two action moves."
Not sure exactly what you mean there, but that does seem possible as Tandem Move isn't limited usage per turn,
so you can have a round with Tandem Move... You and Eidolon Stride -> Tandem Move #2... You and Eidolon Stride -> Act Together... Eidolon/You do own 1-action
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"So your not going to be able to cast a two action spell and have your eidolon move and attack on the same turn. "
I'm not sure, but think you may be able to do that, once you have Tandem Move (nesting it in Act Together):
2-action Spell -> Act Together... Eidolon: Strike, You: Tandem Move... You and Eidolon: Stride
Tandem Move is worded a bit oddly, "You and your eidolon each use a single action to Stride" is confusing, since it could be read to suggest BOTH are "using" an action "slot". But that wouldn't make sense as a Feat, since it would be no different than You and Eidolon each normally "spending" action to Stride. Notably, Act Together is phrased as "You and your eidolon each PERFORM a single action" (rather than "use") and I think Tandem Move should be similarly phrased (just constrained to Stride).
Check the Main Thread. It was confirmed by designer that you can't nest Tandem actions like this, it was the first thing I saw and asked :)
A Tandem action already involves both characters acting, and therefore they can't be combined.
(nesting it in Act Together)
It's already confirmed in the sticky thread that you can't do that.
Edit : I think they should specify you can't use action that have the Tandem trait with one of the actions give by Act Together. That would be more clear.
Check the Main Thread. It was confirmed by designer that you can't nest Tandem actions like this, it was the first thing I saw and asked :)
A Tandem action already involves both characters acting, and therefore they can't be combined.
OK thanks, I hadn't read that (just glanced at Playtest PDF now myself). I see Mark Seifter references the Tandem trait, which appears in brown sidebar without mentioning anything about this nesting restriction, but safe to say if he is saying this... that final rules text for Tandem trait will make that restriction explicit.
Honestly that seems perfectly reasonable to me (even if not apparent at first from Playtest PDF), 2-action spells do become less flexible than 1-action options but that seems reasonable, and you still can cast 2-action spells with Eidlon making a Strike (as well as You making some other 1-action via Act Together). And actually, if the 2-action spell you cast is Haste, that already "gives you back" 1 action that either You or Eidolon can immediately use for Stride/Strike, which seems pretty solid combo.
I did realize that Haste's free Stride/Strike action can't be used for Tandem Move or Act Together (despite those accomplshing Stride/Strikes) since they need "normal" action to fuel the Tandem paired actions. Which also seems totally fair IMHO, just something that occured to me when thinking about Haste here.
Mark Seifter's seemingly positive response to your idea of using both Tandem and Act Together in the same round (not nesting) does make me believe there is no limitation there, and as Tandem itself has no per/round limit, I believe it should also work fine to Tandem Move -> Tandem Move #2 -> Act Together (whatever/whatever), which seems to address another one of Siegfried's concerns. ("if you wish to split your action economy evenly neither of you get to do two action moves.") Although IMHO, I don't think "splitting the action economy evenly to do two Strides" [plus other action] is really such a critical dynamic, so if Tandem Move WERE given it's own 1/round limitation I wouldn't be too worried. That said, it doesn't seem too bad to allow if you really want to focus both You and Eidolon's actions that much on Striding.
[EDITED]
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There's no general restriction against "nesting" in the tandem trait, the restriction is more specific and lives in Act Together: Act Together gives you one action only the summoner takes and one only the eidolon takes, so neither of these can be a tandem action.
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I'm kind of theorycrafting and trying to see how to properly build a Summoner and I also find that there's one type of Summoner I can't build: The caster Summoner. The action economy doesn't allow me to cast a spell and Strike with my Eidolon unless my Eidolon doesn't have to move. And because the Summoner only has 4 spells per day, even if I find ways to cast I won't cast for long.
I won't say it's bad per se, but it's clearly very different from first edition where the classical round for a Summoner was to send his Eidolon fighting while casting a spell.
@Mark I guess I default to reading both Act Together and Tandem Move as single actions which are (only) performed by the Summoner, since they are presented as Summoner tag actions like other class actions are presented. That they grant free action to both Summoner and Eidolon doesn't seem that far from "efficient combo actions" like Sudden Charge, with boundary between creature actions already blurred by nature of Summoner/Eidolon.
It sounds like Tandem trait definition should explicitly contradict that, but it's text doesn't seem quite clear to me: "Actions with the tandem trait allow you and your eidolon to act together" could just as well be talking about the RESULT of Tandem actions, not their collective performance... Which is in line with all examples of Tandem involving dual result. That's reinforced by the next line "You can’t use a tandem action if you haven’t Manifested your Eidolon..." which seems fully within paradigm of just the Summoner (You) performing the tandem action, with Eidolon being external condition. Eidolon not being Manifested should be inherent impediment to collective performance, yet here it is mentioned like object external to the performer. Without Tandem trait being clearer on that, Tandem Move still seems to read as single action performed by Summoner which plausibly is compatible with Act Together's subsidiary bonus single action for Summoner.
More directly centering the collective performance and avoiding "You" narrative that externalizes Eidolon might avoid that confusion? Perhaps also adding Eidolon tag to Tandem actions could reinforce that Eidolon is also performing them? Not sure if there are other reasons you want "collectively performed" Tandem actions beyond anti-nesting... but it seems a blanket ban on nesting is clearest & most effective way to prevent these combos. (Tandem tag could still be concise way to express ban) /shrug
Anyhow, looking forward to exploring both classes more, and glad to see COVID hasn't stopped you (all, collectively) from doing good work.
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@Mark I guess I default to reading both Act Together and Tandem Move as single actions which are (only) performed by the Summoner, since they are presented as Summoner tag actions like other class actions are presented. That they grant free action to both Summoner and Eidolon doesn't seem that far from "efficient combo actions" like Sudden Charge, or if we imagine casting single-action Haste to grant both you and Eidolon a free action.
I agree that the distinction does not seem nearly so clear to me as it does to Mark, and that there needs to be some sort of clarification somewhere to make it more clear.
"ACT TOGETHER [one-action]
SUMMONER TANDEM
Frequency once per round
You and your eidolon each perform a single action."
"Tandem: Actions with the tandem trait allow you and
your eidolon to act together."
So, you use Act Together, and both you and your Eidolon have one action. Then you use Tandem Move and both you and your Eidolon have performed your action (Striding).
It's quite clear to me.
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Bottom line for me is that "Act Together" needs to be able to be used as part of an activity such as casting a spell. As it is now it just feels bad to be a partial caster that often can't even muster the strength to cast his/her useful cantrips. And let's not even talk about if I want to use the Summoner to...you know...summon something as the 3 action spells hurt their economy even more.
Bottom line for me is that "Act Together" needs to be able to be used as part of an activity such as casting a spell. As it is now it just feels bad to be a partial caster that often can't even muster the strength to cast his/her useful cantrips. And let's not even talk about if I want to use the Summoner to...you know...summon something as the 3 action spells hurt their economy even more.
I think this change would make the class more fun for sure - but its so obvious, I have to wonder if internal testing looked at it that way and found it to be disruptive somehow.
Its certainly a big power boost, but its also one that doesn't jostle the math or affect other players so...
I'm in favor, unless it was tested and found to be an issue, I suppose.
I think my biggest problem with the Summoner Action Economy is Boost Eidolon tbh.
It's basically your combat mechanic that every martial proficiency class has, but unlike most other ones you need to spend actions on it every single round (sometimes Rangers have to Hunt every round but at least they have action economy enhancing attacks to make up for it).
So it sort of feels like it sucks up a lot of that advantage Act Together gives you (while simultaneously not scaling very well compared to a lot of these mechanics).
You can just not cast it, obviously, and that's pretty valid, but being the Rogue who can't sneak attack or the Barbarian who can't rage feels pretty bad and that's basically where you are at that point.