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I'm in awe of how bad they made this spell. I truly respect the effort it took to publish something like this without fear or a guilty conscience. Well done.
It's just a fun roleplay thing for a witch, maybe. Don't they always change from crone to maiden, for some deception?
More weird spells please!
Ditto this. I love niche, mostly-for-RP spells.
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It's a fun spell, and because it lasts all day you basically can make a wand of it and cast everyday to change your age at will.
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Well it's a niche spell, i don't see much wrong with it. Yeah it's bad most times but useful once in a while. Some campaigns can use it quite a lot a regular one will use it once or twice.
Not a spell a sorcerer would take for sure but a prepared caster can make use of it.
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Changing from 18 to 80 is pretty good for an all day spell. If someone is looking for you [a young adult human], it's unlikely anyone is jumping up to mention the 80 year old they saw even if the other general details are the same. If nothing else, it can modify deception DC's, even for things like Create a Diversion and Feint [a granny that stumbles and flails with her cane doesn't seem out of place]. Diplomacy can be affected too, like gather info from the collecting of old wives gossip circle. YMMV though.
Granted it seems overly focused on a specific type of game but in a city-centric mystery/skill type game things like this shine.
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Yeah, it's hard to argue that a all day spell that grants level+4 to deception checks should be lower level.
i assume its a reference to baba yaga and the triple godess thing
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I'm in awe of how bad they made this spell. I truly respect the effort it took to publish something like this without fear or a guilty conscience. Well done.
This attitude like Paizo has an obligation to publish content you personally approve of is kinda terrible.
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Yeah, it's hard to argue that a all day spell that grants level+4 to deception checks should be lower level.
It only lets you disguise your age, not your identity - people who see you in more than one age know you’re the same person, they just may not know which is your real age.
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Yeah, it's hard to argue that a all day spell that grants level+4 to deception checks should be lower level.It only lets you disguise your age, not your identity - people who see you in more than one age know you’re the same person, they just may not know which is your real age.
Err...no. It doesn't work on people who know you, but as a disguise with people who don't it works fine and sometimes gives a +4 bonus, or even automatically succeeds. That's what the text says.
For example, if you get just out of sight of the guards chasing you, then assume a new age, nobody who sees you in your new age will be able to tell the guards where you went based on their description, since they won't have made the necessary Seek action to pierce your disguise, and people who are 30 and the same people at 70 usually look pretty different, often unrecognizably so unless you know them.
And even if the guards spot you after your change, unless they know you personally, you'll get a +4 to convince them you're actually 70 and thus not who they're looking for (though they'll likely suspect you of being a relative).
It's fairly niche, but useless it is not. Also, it's a 3rd level spell, not a 4th level one.
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That’s a great scenario handled better Ilusionary Disguise.
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That’s a great scenario handled better Ilusionary Disguise.
Sure, but Threefold Aspect lets you do it multiple times within the same day for one spell, and is only one action to swap identities rather than two, and gives none of the visible signs of spellcasting when you swap with it (that last bit is actually huge).
I'm not saying it's a great spell, honestly it's mostly for flavor, but it's not useless by any means.
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I made a lot of use of Wizened Appearance in PF1 to disguise myself even in regards of my teammates. As it's a transmutation spell, there's no way to disbelieve it through interaction. So you're forced to roll Perception checks. In PF1, skill checks could be so high that I was auto-succeeding at my Bluff checks, it's the only difference with PF2. But if you know your teammates are not that good in Perception, you can pass for someone else even in front of them.
So, not the best spell ever, but a nice one indeed.
Illusions spells don't work if the observer knows you are disguised. He just has to interact with you to disbelieve it.
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“Who is this old man wearing the gear and clothing of our young companion?!”
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The spell is fine, it works great in city games or games where you will have a lot of interaction with humanoids of the civilised races.
And because of how "till next preparation" spells work you can keep it up for days.
Although it is a bit more limited if you read "creatures who know you" as being "anything that has seen you at least once". But there is still plenty of use.
Not everything has to be built for your games and this particular spell would be useful in any of the city games I have run.
Heck even as a player in PF1e I am using threefold even when it provides me no bonuses and only negatives (as it doesn't stack with item bonuses) almost daily.
could you use it to live forever if you never prepare spells again?
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When I first saw this thread I looked up the spell and my initial impression was that the spell was a perfect vanity spell for the stereotypical witch, hag or other similar character who's very old but likes to pass themselves off as young (and usually beautiful) - i.e. an NPC.
Can PCs use the spell, sure!
Is it useful... can be, but I can see why many wouldn't ever take it or use it for anything or consider it nearly useless (opinions will vary).
Is the spell level appropriate... probably given its duration.
Oh as for how I would take it in PF2e, slap it on a wand and be done. It doesn't need to be heightened and it only needs one cast a day. I really like that you can change between the three age groups as a single action.
could you use it to live forever if you never prepare spells again?
Daily preparations aren't something you can ignore, the process starts daily whether you want it to or not IIRC.
However this might be appealing to you as you can automatically sustain the spell when preparations occur.
Long Durations
That the spell says:
Suggests that it is only outer appearance and not intended to actually make you old or young (mechanically) though.
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“Who is this old man wearing the gear and clothing of our young companion?!”
It was a campaign with lots of secrecy among players. So we were used to similar shenanigans. And it worked wonders. Everyone started to think my "new" character was just the previous one in disguise (and I made sure to make them believe that) but the complete absence of evidence slowly made them doubt. Ultimately, they became more and more suspicious.
If you want to lie to someone tell him the truth but make sure the truth looks suspicious so the person will slowly start to question it until he manages to proove you lied to him!| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
I foe one absolutely love the spell as written. It's totally perfect for my sorcerer Hama (witch concept) who regularly convinces her enemies that she is a feeble, harmless old crone not worthy of much attention.
I'm sorry some of you fail to see the potential. That glass is half empty mindset must get you real far in terms of having fun.
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Full-day alterable disguises are great. I want higher-level more general takes on this idea.
But yeah, all day, switchable, and a transmutation instead of an illusion? That's great.
(Additionally, there's a minor hidden benefit. It's a polymorph, so harmful polymorphs need to first counteract it.)
the perplexing part about the spell is that its occult/primal which makes zero sense. it should be arcane/primal. literally the last kind of spell it should be given its description is occult.
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the perplexing part about the spell is that its occult/primal which makes zero sense. it should be arcane/primal. literally the last kind of spell it should be given its description is occult.
How does occult not make sense?
Respectfully, I disagree.
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Xenocrat, I'm not still not entirely sure why the idea of a spell existing mostly as a cool flavor thing with some limited mechanical benefit seems to personally offend you so much.
Like... okay, it's not a very powerful spell. It has some niche use but it mostly exists for witches to be able to do the "mother maiden crone" thing that is such a part of their mythology.
Why is that a problem? Why should Paizo feel guilty for publishing that spell?
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“I don’t know, but maybe his dad wearing the same clothes over there can tell us!”
If changing clothes it too much effort, combine with Project Persona for all day age and clothes change, Vigilante Dedication takes 1 min for a whole new identity [clothes included] with Quick Change changing that to 3 actions, Backup Disguise is a 1-3 action Impersonate while Quick Disguise takes from 5 min to 3 actions... SO I'm not sure why you're so stuck on clothes changes. Even if these options didn't exist, so what? It can't swap clothes actively in Encounter Mode? In Exploration Mode and Downtime Mode it's not an issue and it's just as useful.
the perplexing part about the spell is that its occult/primal which makes zero sense. it should be arcane/primal. literally the last kind of spell it should be given its description is occult.How does occult not make sense?
Respectfully, I disagree.
because occult is mind/sprit. this spell affects neither. this spell purely alters the material/matter thus it's properly an arcane/primal spell. it's completely random that it's on the occult list.
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As someone who used to work in law enforcement, I can tell you with 100% accuracy that few people can recall what another was wearing unless they take the specific step to remember it. And even then not very accurately.
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As someone who used to work in law enforcement, I can tell you with 100% accuracy that few people can recall what another was wearing unless they take the specific step to remember it. And even then not very accurately.
this is 100% true. esp of color, that tends to be off. witnesses just generally remember the type of clothing more than anything else.
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Yeah, I think this is flag and move on territory, actually; what there is to be said on the matter seems to have been said.
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So you don't like it Xenocrat. You've clearly explained your reasons for not liking it. Can't you just leave it at that? Why bring in all this drama? It's unbecoming, and will only serve to drive people away from this fine community.
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That's fair, bad sports teams are quite nice to watch after all i mean i am from brasil and we did cheer for the underdog in most of the games here during the olympics, the room is considered one of the worst movies in the world and is a world classic.
I guess bad things are indeed good.
My favorite movie is Van Helsing, and I have been told countless times it's a really bad movie and I should feel bad for liking it. Maybe I just like bad things.
This spell seems fun. Niche, but creative people could find good use for it in certain campaign types.