So once again I have a question.
This one is about action cost of communication during combat.
Long story short, is communication during combat a free action or 1 action?
Here is the example.
Player one (P1) strides (1 action) up to mysterious enemy.
P1 strikes (1 action) mysterious enemy.
GM describes attack did very little damage
P1 Recalls knowledge and learns enemy is very resistant to X resistant to Y and vulnerable to Z
P1 wants to give allies some helpful information can they do this in this round?
Verbally what can be shared as a free action vs 1 action?
With Telepathic bond can more be shared regardless of actions?
I personally would consider relaying detailed information akin to the point out action.
On the other hand if P1 yelled "smash it" (vulnerable to bludgeoning) I would allow as a free action
|
The only time I think its really feasible or needed to be asked is when you are actively using other Actions during your turn that have a Verbal or Language dependent Trait or Component to them.
For example, if you have a thee Action Spell with the Verbal Component, such as pretty much all Summon Spells, you will have spent nearly your entire turn speaking anyhow. In these situations, I'd give it a pass anyhow but perhaps might pose the following question to the player: "Can you convey your message in five words or less?"
Beyond those types of scenarios, I'm totally fine with them speaking even a full sentence or two, as much as one person can understandably speak in about 6 seconds, so about 20 words or so.
One rule of thumb for highway billboards is "maximum of seven words". That's about as much as someone can read when driving past at normal highway speeds.
I'd allow up to seven words as a free action, but more than that is likely to be misinterpreted by whoever they are trying to talk to.
Remember that the speaker has to 1) Get the attention of an ally during a battle, 2) put the information into a short phrase, and 3) speak loudly enough to be heard under the circumstances.
The listener has to be 1) paying attention, 2) able to hear the sounds, and 3) be aware enough of the speaker's situation and circumstances, so they can 4) appropriately interpret the words.
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
Communication at the table encourages and fosters player involvement, by getting players involved in the game during more than just their own turn.
Things like that are priceless - I'd recommend limiting communication as little as possible, except in extremely plot relevant situations. And even then, being able to discuss things with freedom will keep the players invested.
As soon as you limit communication, everyone is going to check out except for, "Oh, were those seven words in character?"
I'd recommend limiting communication as little as possible, except in extremely plot relevant situations. And even then, being able to discuss things with freedom will keep the players invested.
As soon as you limit communication, everyone is going to check out except for, "Oh, were those seven words in character?"
That sounds like a lovely house rule, but it's not how the rules are written.
As long as you can act, you can also speak. You don't need to spend any type of action to speak, but because a round represents 6 seconds of time, you can usually speak at most a single sentence or so per round.
A single sentence is quite alright. It's weak to fire and watch out for when it takes a deep breath.
I wouldn't limit it to 6-7 words. But as the book says limit it to a single sentence that can be completed in around 6 second and it should be good.
ALSO let people talk outside of their turn. Still only for 6 seconds per round but don't limit it to initiative values.
I wouldn't limit it to 6-7 words. But as the book says limit it to a single sentence that can be completed in around 6 second and it should be good.
ALSO let people talk outside of their turn. Still only for 6 seconds per round but don't limit it to initiative values.
How would you handle someone pointing out an enemy? What could they say that would still not cost them an action? And how do you handle them interrupting someone else's turn?
I let a character doing Recall Knowledge say what they remember out loud as part of the same action, if they choose to. In practice, this means that in most combats when I tell the player what the character recalled, the player goes "I say that".
I let a character doing Recall Knowledge say what they remember out loud as part of the same action, if they choose to. In practice, this means that in most combats when I tell the player what the character recalled, the player goes "I say that".
Came here to add this.
To me the Recall Knowledge action isn't just reflecting, but being able to communicate the facts clearly to one's allies (if desired).With more and more free action/combined action Recall Knowledge checks, this interpretation's getting messier!
I do not like people talking before they've had their initiative turn simply because otherwise heroes could never take out guards unless they take out all of them in one swift action which is hardly possible.
I do usually let a player blurt out something (especially if playing with flakes or new players) just so the other players won't screw up a situation. Things like capture, wait, or talk. That's more for player cohesiveness than in-game reasons.
|
I wouldn't limit it to 6-7 words. But as the book says limit it to a single sentence that can be completed in around 6 second and it should be good.
ALSO let people talk outside of their turn. Still only for 6 seconds per round but don't limit it to initiative values.
How would you handle someone pointing out an enemy? What could they say that would still not cost them an action? And how do you handle them interrupting someone else's turn?
I would say that the Point Out action is for pointing out enemies anywhere. Sometimes though an enemy is at a specific, very easy to describe spot, and then a simple (no-action) sentence is enough to indicate the enemy's position.
"He's two spaces to the northeast of the second column on the far side of the room" sounds complicated enough that it costs an action.
"He's standing in the doorway" is much simpler. So is "he's flanking Bob with the other dude (that's visible)".
I consider the Point Out action to be the answer to players coming up with really complicated directions or trying to point out exact grid coordinates in a big featureless room, and the GM getting annoyed because you couldn't possibly say that in a few short words. So making it cost an action is the compromise for that.
But if the enemy makes it easy, then that might just save you an action.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
How would you handle someone pointing out an enemy? What could they say that would still not cost them an action? And how do you handle them interrupting someone else's turn?
The point out action has a clear mechanical benefit. So easy to adjudicate, same as any other time it is used. If they don't use the action they don't get the benefits of the action but can still say "I saw someone over xxx"
They just talk, the point of allowing it is to keep combats feeling a bit more fluid and allow the lines of "my turn your turn" to blur a little more and keep people engaged.
I treat it similarly to a delay action in the sense that people can only speak after a triggered action or another person speaks. I have never had to specifically outline this to my players though they have just picked up on the cadence of interaction and did it themselves.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'd recommend limiting communication as little as possible, except in extremely plot relevant situations. And even then, being able to discuss things with freedom will keep the players invested.
As soon as you limit communication, everyone is going to check out except for, "Oh, were those seven words in character?"
That sounds like a lovely house rule, but it's not how the rules are written.
As long as you can act, you can also speak. You don't need to spend any type of action to speak, but because a round represents 6 seconds of time, you can usually speak at most a single sentence or so per round.
Look at a party of pro gamers, they communicate extremely few, rarely sentences, just words and are completely coordinated. First, there is a lot of non verbal communication. And groups accustomed to work together (what every Pathfinder is supposed to be due to 3 years of training) are extremely good at it.
You'll never hear someone saying "I go in the middle areas with nothing but useless monsters and kill a few of them to get xp", you'll hear "I go jungle", "I have aggro", "OOM", "Help Poison"... Characters have similar code words to describe situations, they also know each other available attacks and abilities and will call out for them with very precise words and everyone will understand what's happening.I mean, adventurers are heroes and they risk their lives all the time. I hope they took a little bit of time around the campfire to share strategies, give info about their abilities and make a few test fights.
At my tables, I tend to consider all of that is obvious as long as players can easily communicate with each other (visual and sound). I only start to annoy them with communication when they don't see their allies or don't hear them.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I don't consider rounds exactly six seconds, so I let them talk if it is seems like a cool exchange. You want your players to communicate in battle. Makes the game more fun.
This is one reason I like playing with groups from 1st onward. They develop internal code words and standard ops organically rather in some "it happened offscreen" way which feels contrived when factoring in intra-party dynamics and rivalries. Not all accomplished people work well with others or like obeying orders. This goes double when talking about a haphazard mushing of random fantasy characters in PFS scenarios.
Yet when I've seen established parties work around their eccentric members, it can be quite amusing. It's much like having that one always-late friend that you tell the wrong meeting time to when it really matters.
On the flip side, some sports like volleyball have established code words that transfer well into other teams. Same w/ bridge & its sets of bidding systems to choose from.
I'd be impressed if somebody brought a cheat sheet to a PFS game to pass out to other players. That'd tickle me. I'd settle for casters informing others if they're more likely to lead with Fireball or a group buff or whatnot.
Thank you all. All this discussion has been great
I wouldn't limit it to 6-7 words. But as the book says limit it to a single sentence that can be completed in around 6 second and it should be good.
ALSO let people talk outside of their turn. Still only for 6 seconds per round but don't limit it to initiative values.
How would you handle someone pointing out an enemy? What could they say that would still not cost them an action? And how do you handle them interrupting someone else's turn?
HOBGOBLINS ON MY LEFT "Tim ejaculated"
My groups typically reserve speaking until it's their character's turn in initiative.
This is not a universally held or observed rule in my groups.
It's not even universally observed by the people who really value holding speech until it's their turn.
I think the big thing you're trying to avoid is for players to spend a long time - and long is defined here is "some people are getting bored by it" - hashing out a perfect strategy.
Waiting until it's your turn in initiative to say "help me out over here!" even though the character whose help you want just went? That's a great way to simulate the chaos of battle.
Shouting "augh! They're tearing me apart over here!" on the enemy's turn after they dealt a lot of damage? Sure it's out-of-turn speech, but that feels very reasonable too.
However, "ok if you go right here and cast Color Spray, and the Rogue holds her turn until after the spell is cast, then after the Rogue goes the Fighter moves into flanking position for me..." and meanwhile the whole party is rolling their eyes at the controlling Cleric, while it's been the Wizard's turn the whole time... that's the problem.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Sometimes when a PC gets hit I'll ask them how loudly they yell. :)
Helps clue in some inattentive healers.
