I'm honestly just curious if anyone else is interested in playable Gremlins. Gremlins have always been something that I love in RPGs but I have never held any hope for becoming playable in Pathfinder. Now that I am getting into 2nd Edition the fact that Tiny sized Sprites are apparently going to be playable come the Lost Omens Ancestry Guide and the Lost Omens character guide hinted at a number of evil races I never expected to become playable like Troglodytes/Xulgaths and Morlocks(Both of which I love. I have a thing for fallen civilizations, sue me.) that got me thinking how much I would love to see Gremlins as playable.
Sure they are usually evil little bastards but I think it would be a lot of fun to play as them in some scenarios, some of which wouldn't be quite as evil (In fact one type of Gremlin, the Haniver, is listed as Neutral normally). Combined with a number of interesting possible Heritages like how Pixie and Grig are going to be Sprite Heritages I think they would be a decent if unorthodox Ancestry choice. I also think there are a lot fun scenarios for Gremlins.
When Gnolls finally get added having a Pugwampi joining the party trying to impress the Gnoll could be a fun time. Especially if the Gnoll and Gremlin are of different alignments and classes with the Pugwampi doing the best it can to emulate the Gnoll.
A Vexgit so impressed by the ability of the party to smash up a construct in the first encounter they join along to learn new ways to smash things. Alternatively, if the party fails hard against the encounter, the Vexgit feels the need to teach them how to properly disassemble things.
A Jinkin who feels so slighted by a local tyrant (mostly imagined on the gremlin's part) it is willing to assist a plucky band of rebels just to bring all of the tyrants plans crashing down on its head.
When small fey start disappearing at an alarming rate, sprites and gremlins will put aside their differences, if only briefly, to form a Tiny party of mayhem.
I may be the only one super interested in Gremlins. I also understand some people dislike having every evil race become playable. Do you all think they should be relegated to Serpentfolk level of never ever becoming playable? Would anyone actually be interested in rolling up a Gremlin?
I love playable fey, so why not? Lots of fun options for abilities, too
No pugwampi. (As much as it pains me to say that.)
Sure, I'd love it flavor-wise once we get gnolls, but their defining mechanic is one that I don't think is a good idea to have on anything playable for balance reasons. Normally, it'd be easy to say, "Oh, their feat only forces a reroll for a target once per day", but it's a big part of their lore that gnolls are the only other creature not passively affected by their aura. If Paizo doesn't mind giving them a more limited and party-friendly option, then I retract my reservations.
Other than that, sure? I don't want it in particular, but we've got pixies and grigs, so I don't mind.
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I root for Mitflits. So, yes, I would like gremlins as an ancestry.
No pugwampi. (As much as it pains me to say that.)
Sure, I'd love it flavor-wise once we get gnolls, but their defining mechanic is one that I don't think is a good idea to have on anything playable for balance reasons. Normally, it'd be easy to say, "Oh, their feat only forces a reroll for a target once per day", but it's a big part of their lore that gnolls are the only other creature not passively affected by their aura. If Paizo doesn't mind giving them a more limited and party-friendly option, then I retract my reservations.
Other than that, sure? I don't want it in particular, but we've got pixies and grigs, so I don't mind.
And it pains me to admit you are probably right. Their misfortune aura would probably be a bad idea unless your party was only gremlins and gnolls. It hurts to say that though, partly cause I love their flavor, partly because of how cute their 2e artwork is.
I would say the 4 gremlin heritage options would be Mitflit, Jenkin, Vexgit and Pugwampi, but with no Pugwampi not sure what would be the best fit for a 4th.
Nuglubs are kinda iffy with their "no armor" thing but probably still one of the best choices.
Hannivers have both a fly speed and swim speed which is probably a bit much. They are the only Gremlin not listed as evil however, and Misplacement doesn't seem too strong.
Grimples I like (hopefully with new art so they actually look like a possum) and I guess you could just give them a glide speed. The problem is if they keep their gremlin lice from 1e. I do like the idea of a rabid fey possum flying at your face.
Fauth wouldn't be too bad if not for taking damage in sunlight.
Hobkins are cool, Frighener and Minor Levitation would be fun to incorporate, and you could probably just turn Collateral Damage into some kind of Gremlin Feat, but Out of Phase is too gamebreaking to ever get in.
As a very late addition maybe? with the rare tag to set expectations?
Personally I adore fey, but I don't want the party to get much closer to the first world than beings on the level of Gnomes. I don't want to deny other people fun entirely because of my tastes though.
Some creatures I don't think should be playable though, as mentioned above Pugwampi are an awful fit.
Also being quite elemental in nature (not as in composed of elements, but singular in nature) I find them a poor fit for adventurers and the variety of classes we will have.
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We already have Goblins to fill the "small, tricky, evil race made into a PC" option, I don't think we need yet another one. They could expand on the Goblins with more ancestry feats characterizing new types of Goblins, (some we may not even know about yet, like a fey-touched Goblin) that is all that is needed.
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We already have Goblins to fill the "small, tricky, evil race made into a PC" option, I don't think we need yet another one. They could expand on the Goblins with more ancestry feats characterizing new types of Goblins, (some we may not even know about yet, like a fey-touched Goblin) that is all that is needed.
We're getting small, tricky fey ancestries in Lost Omens Ancestry Guide. :)
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We already have Goblins to fill the "small, tricky, evil race made into a PC" option, I don't think we need yet another one. They could expand on the Goblins with more ancestry feats characterizing new types of Goblins, (some we may not even know about yet, like a fey-touched Goblin) that is all that is needed.
Sorry to tell you this, but kobolds are already confirmed coming very soon;)
No pugwampi. (As much as it pains me to say that.)
Sure, I'd love it flavor-wise once we get gnolls, but their defining mechanic is one that I don't think is a good idea to have on anything playable for balance reasons. Normally, it'd be easy to say, "Oh, their feat only forces a reroll for a target once per day", but it's a big part of their lore that gnolls are the only other creature not passively affected by their aura. If Paizo doesn't mind giving them a more limited and party-friendly option, then I retract my reservations.
And it pains me to admit you are probably right. Their misfortune aura would probably be a bad idea unless your party was only gremlins and gnolls. It hurts to say that though, partly cause I love their flavor, partly because of how cute their 2e artwork is.
I don't see an issue. Forewarned if forearmed.
If you have a pugwampi PC in the group, then other PCs will affected by the misfortune aura if they aren't gremilins or gnolls.
Oracles have their curses; so, why not? I think of it as a role-playing challenge.
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We already have Goblins to fill the "small, tricky, evil race made into a PC" option, I don't think we need yet another one. They could expand on the Goblins with more ancestry feats characterizing new types of Goblins, (some we may not even know about yet, like a fey-touched Goblin) that is all that is needed.Sorry to tell you this, but kobolds are already confirmed coming very soon;)
That was a
*shades*
low kick if there ever was one
*YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH*
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I'm resistant to the "Tatooine Cantina" feel that IMO ruined Starfinder by giving us a glut of face masks rather than species. It quickly got to the point where species were superfluous to a PC's personality or story.
A good rule of thumb I'll toss out there is if an adventure couldn't be based around their cultural history (or research into same), the ancestry probably lacks the requisite development. Of course this hurdle's easy to overcome w/ said development.
So what have been gremlins' roles in Golarion's history?
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We already have Goblins to fill the "small, tricky, evil race made into a PC" option, I don't think we need yet another one. They could expand on the Goblins with more ancestry feats characterizing new types of Goblins, (some we may not even know about yet, like a fey-touched Goblin) that is all that is needed.Sorry to tell you this, but kobolds are already confirmed coming very soon;)
I know that, so why do we need Gremlins, yet ANOTHER race that fits the very same archetype? It's turning PF2 into a little-person's Star Trek "aliens" (basically all the same with a different skin-color/facial appliance/etc)
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Personally, gremlins are a thing I'd like to keep in the realm of "always evil". Sabotage isn't a thing they choose to do, they are the incarnation of Murphy's Law or M. R. James's "malice of inanimate objects". At best they parody culture (a la the Gremlins movies).
I vote we get Lemures next. We don't have enough races to fit the Lemure fantasy archetype.
Also Zombie and Skeleton races -nods-
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Personally, gremlins are a thing I'd like to keep in the realm of "always evil". Sabotage isn't a thing they choose to do, they are the incarnation of Murphy's Law or M. R. James's "malice of inanimate objects". At best they parody culture (a la the Gremlins movies).
This is a pass from me. I already don't like "always evil" as a concept. In my book, the more we get away from that, the better.
I vote we get Lemures next. We don't have enough races to fit the Lemure fantasy archetype.
Also Zombie and Skeleton races -nods-
Have you by any chance ever played Zangband?
Human, Half-Elf, Elf, Hobbit, Gnome, Dwarf, Half-Orc, Half-Troll, Amberite, High-Elf, Barbarian, Half-Ogre, Half-Giant, Half-Titan, Cyclops, Yeek, Klackon, Kobold, Nibelung, Dark Elf, Draconian, Mind Flayer, Imp, Golem, Skeleton, Zombie, Vampire, Spectre, Sprite, Beastman..
Oracles have their curses; so, why not? I think of it as a role-playing challenge.
Oracle curses are largely personal. Someone showing up to a table with PC that makes all their allies worse just by existing is a different beast entirely.
Oracles have their curses; so, why not? I think of it as a role-playing challenge.Oracle curses are largely personal. Someone showing up to a table with PC that makes all their allies worse just by existing is a different beast entirely.
true.