What deity is most thematic, or actively present in the story, for each Adventure Path?


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I’m very curious as to the “ideal” cleric for each AP, not mechanistically, but purely in terms of relevance to the plot at hand.

There are some Paths, like Carrion Crown, where this seems obvious, while others, like Reign of Winter, where I have no freakin idea.

Not super interested in answers just saying you‘re having fun in Book 2 of your play through with such-and-such a build; I’d really like those DEEPLY familiar with any or all of the APs to weigh in with their top choice (or top two of you MUST) for each AP.

In the spirit of playing along, I took my own swing at it, but I am NOT deeply familiar with every AP, and because I’m a perverse theorycrafter, I made myself never repeat deities, though I’m sure there are two each for Pharasma and Cayden Cailean, and prolly at least three for Iomedae.

Here goes:

Rise of the Runelords: Desna
Curse of the Crimson Throne: Abadar
Second Darkness: Calistria
Legacy of Fire: Sarenrae
Council of Thieves: Iomedae
Kingmaker: Erastil
Serpent’s Skull: Gozreh
Carrion Crown: Pharasma
Jade Regent: Cayden Cailen
Skull & Shackles: Besmara
Shattered Star: Irori
Reign of Winter: Nethys
Wrath of the Righteous: Shelyn
Mummy’s Mask: Ra
Iron Gods: Brigh
Giantslayer: Torag
Hell’s Rebels: Milani
Hell’s Vengeance: Asmodeus
Strange Aeons: Lamashtu
Ironfang Invasion: Gorum
Ruins of Azlant: Apsu
War for the Crown: Norgorber
Return of the Runelords: Nocticula
Tyrant’s Grasp: Andoletta
Age of Ashes: Milani
Extinction Curse: Sun Wukong
Agents of Edgewatch: Grundinnar


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Spoilers:
Curse of the Crimson Throne runs with Abadar(Point of Contact church for fighting the disease), Iomedae (Artifact Sword get), and Shoanti Spiritualism, which has links to Desna.(Book 4)

Carrion Crown gets mileage out of Pharasma(Primary point of contact church), Desna(Dieific vision), and Iomedae(Knights of Ozem, Holy Monastary visit).

Wrath of the Righteous gets mileage out of Desna(Redeemed Succubus tie in), Sarenrae(Several Artifacts and redemption), Iomedae (Meet her, visions, her crusade), Noticula(Meet her), Shelyn (Important NPC contact).

Mummy's Mask: Pharasma (Primary NPC clerics, undead), Nethys (Interaction with prominant NPCs, cult), Ancient Egyptian deities (No real strong ties, but best place to actually play them, it seems.)

Hell's Rebels Milani(NPC, rebellion theme), Shelyn(One of the big churches), Sarenrae(Shensen's diety), Cayden Cailean(Several NPCs are secret worshipers).

Ironfang Invasion is good for Erastil(small hometown, local clerics), Gorum (Waaagh), Milani(Rebellion themes)


FANTASTIC! Thanks, Kazoh.


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I have completed running the adventure paths Rise of the Runelords, Jade Regent, and Iron Gods. I began running Ironfang Invasion in October last year and am about to finish the 1st module.

I agree that Desna is the best diety for Rise of the Runelords and Brigh is the best diety for Iron Gods.

Cayden Cailean does not have any strong ties to Jade Regent. He is about freedom, but the mission to Minkai is about restoring the rightful heir to the throne rather than freeing anyone. The inheritance of the Jade Throne of Minkai was established by Shizuru, the Tian-Min goddess of the sun, honor, ancestors, and swordplay. She seems the most appropriate deity for a cleric with Tian-Xian roots.

Gorum is a god of war, but the party in Ironfang Invasion are not dedicated warriors. In the 1st module, Trail of the Hunted, they spend their time in the Fangwood Forest, avoiding the invading Ironfang Legion. A god of nature, such as Gozreh or the Green Faith would fit better. The starting village of Phaendar had a shrine of the Green Faith and also a retired ranger Aubrin who was also a cleric of Cayden Cailen. Both Erastil and Cayden Cailen fit the rural, freedom-loving society of Nirmathis. One other option is that the party later encounters the ancient fey Gendowyn, who is listed in Lost Omens Gods & Magic as a deity.


Love it, Mathmuse, thanks.

One query: I thought you were meant to start Jade Regent as an outsider rather than someone already with Tian-Xian roots... it’s why I went with Apsu instead of the seemingly theme-perfect Elion in Ruins of Azlant as well. But, as I stated, my knowledge of the APs is imperfect at best, so some of these are pretty wild swings in the dark.

Thanks again, though: the info on Ironfang Invasion is PARTICULARLY helpful.


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OctopusMacbeth wrote:
One query: I thought you were meant to start Jade Regent as an outsider rather than someone already with Tian-Xian roots... it’s why I went with Apsu instead of the seemingly theme-perfect Elion in Ruins of Azlant as well. But, as I stated, my knowledge of the APs is imperfect at best, so some of these are pretty wild swings in the dark.

Some of my players dove deep into the Asian theme of Jade Regent. They created characters with strong ties to Tian Xia, even though the adventure started in Varisia. The ninja Ebony Blossom was from Minkai, searching for any signs of the lost royal family. The kitsune sorcerer Nuriko was visitng from Tian Xia and joined the quest to return home. The fighter Jao was descended from a Minkaian general. The samurai Lu was of Xian Xian heritage. For more details, see my chronicle of the campaign.

The adventure path also gives the option to create a character in the Kaijitsu family of Sandpoint, a sibling of Ameiko Kaijitsu. That family left Minkai only two generations ago, so they might still revere Shizuru.

I tried to think of an Inner Sea god for the adventure path, but the Inner Sea seems far away in Tian Xia. However, the older gods, such as Desna and Sarenrae, are worshipped worldwide.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

How can one list Curse of the Crimson Throne without discussing the overpowering presence of Zon-Kuthon?


Lord Fyre wrote:
How can one list Curse of the Crimson Throne without discussing the overpowering presence of Zon-Kuthon?

Good point. I don't normally consider Zon-Kuthon a PC facing deity, so I overlooked it.


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For Jade Regent, you could also make a case for Shelyn, who is one of the core 20 deities worshipped in Tian Xia, as well as Ameiko's patron deity iirc.

But Shizuru works fine, as would Desna (Varisian caravan angle & core 20 in Tia Xia) & Pulura (northern lights & homesickness, also depicted as Tian).

Carry on,

--C.


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Kasoh wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
How can one list Curse of the Crimson Throne without discussing the overpowering presence of Zon-Kuthon?
Good point. I don't normally consider Zon-Kuthon a PC facing deity, so I overlooked it.

Likewise, Lamashtu is a significant diety in the early chapters of Rise of the Runelords, but including a cleric of Lamashtu in the party would be weird.

VILLAIN: I shall destory Sandpoint in the name of Lamashtu!
PARTY CLERIC: You serve the Mother of Monsters? So do I.
VILLAIN: Then join my effort.
PARTY CLERIC: Sorry, but I have a commitment to my comrades. How about we talk this over and see how to best serve Lamashtu?
VILLAIN: Okay, everyone, let's have a one-hour truce. Does anyone want tea?

Liberty's Edge

Mathmuse wrote:
Likewise, Lamashtu is a significant diety in the early chapters of Rise of the Runelords, but including a cleric of Lamashtu in the party would be weird.

This isn't quite the same thing, though. CotCT has zero followers of Zon-Kuthon you actually need to fight and three you almost certainly ally with. By default it's an alliance of convenience, sure, but it would not be hard for a devotee of Zon-Kuthon to basically just be on the same side as the other PCs for the whole game.

Shadow Lodge

Deadmanwalking wrote:
Mathmuse wrote:
Likewise, Lamashtu is a significant diety in the early chapters of Rise of the Runelords, but including a cleric of Lamashtu in the party would be weird.
This isn't quite the same thing, though. CotCT has zero followers of Zon-Kuthon you actually need to fight and three you almost certainly ally with. By default it's an alliance of convenience, sure, but it would not be hard for a devotee of Zon-Kuthon to basically just be on the same side as the other PCs for the whole game.

Who's the third? Sial's eidolon?

But in all seriousness, Zon-Kuthon's relationship to the plot of Curse, both in terms of. . .

Spoiler:
being the patron of Kazavon who is the patron of Ileosa (so much for there being no Kuthite adversaries),

. . . and in terms of. . .

Spoiler:
the involvement of the Brotherhood of Bones,

are mid- to late-plot reveals. A repeat player (or frequent forum-goer) might make a cleric of Zon-Kuthon knowing what's coming, but he's not exactly among the gods towards whom a first-time player reading the Player's Guide would gravitate for their cleric. Unless they were being deliberately contrarian, in which case won't they be surprised?

A first-time player who gravitates toward Shelyn, based on her faith having a major presence in Korvosa, would have a hook into the Kuthite plot, though, as well as the artist characters including Trinia and Salvator. They would also not overlap with any of the major allied clerics (these being of Pharasma, Abadar, and Zon-Kuthon).

Liberty's Edge

zimmerwald1915 wrote:
Who's the third? Sial's eidolon?

That was who I was thinking of, yes.

Spoiler:
Calling Kazavon Ileosa's 'patron' is pretty inaccurate. She's basically leeching power off him for her own purposes/unknowingly being corrupted by his soul's presence, and cares nothing for either his resurrection or Zon-Kuthon. Kazavon himself would count as a Kuthite enemy, but I'd say that in the expected campaign arc you never meet him.

And yes, the revelation of what's really going on is late game, but you don't need to know about it to be a Cleric of Zon Kuthon and go along with the other PCs.

I wasn't really advocating playing such a character, I was just saying it's a lot less disruptive than a Lamashtu worshiper in RotRL, and probably no more disruptive than any Evil Deity. The Evil deity to avoid being a Cleric of for CotCT because it will screw up the plot is Urgathoa.


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Playing a Brigh devotee in Iron Gods is extra fun given the whole Triune plotline in Starfinder.


This reminds me, in the Player's Guide for Return of the Runelords, there's a rather extended paragraph I found quite intriguing about the possibility of a cleric of Yog-Sothoth, so much so that i almost put it on my list instead of Nocticula.

Perhaps this deity choice would be comparable to the Zon Kuthon debate above?

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Lamashtu doesn't really thematically fit Strange Aeons since strange aeons is thematically more fitting for good deities. Mostly because of the whole "you wake up feeling you did something bad but your god is giving you second chance" factor, while if you start with Lamashtu's cleric its not really shocking to find out you forgot what distasteful things you did :p

(of course lot of deities in this list seem random. Like why Apsu for Ruins of Azlant? He has no connection to azlanti and ap has no dragon or Dahak connection)

Liberty's Edge

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I'm going to be that guy and note that Milani is on your list twice.

In Tyrant's Grasp it is possible to get spells from Arazni, and she would be a very strong candidate for the AP's themes.

(Though whether it's always a good idea to meet your god is another question entirely.)


CorvusMask wrote:

Lamashtu doesn't really thematically fit Strange Aeons since strange aeons is thematically more fitting for good deities. Mostly because of the whole "you wake up feeling you did something bad but your god is giving you second chance" factor, while if you start with Lamashtu's cleric its not really shocking to find out you forgot what distasteful things you did :p

(of course lot of deities in this list seem random. Like why Apsu for Ruins of Azlant? He has no connection to azlanti and ap has no dragon or Dahak connection)

Oh yes, as I implied, a great number of my choices were random, as I was a) not deeply familiar with many of the APs (this breaking my own rule), and b) perverse enough to try not to repeat myself except when a last minute substitution causes me to do so, as the commenter below me caught.

It’s BECAUSE I don’t know the correct answer that I started this post, in hopes that those more experienced and perspicacious than I could give me some good answers. The traveling campaigns like Azlant (which I mentioned in an earlier comment), Jade Regent, and Reign of Winter were the ones I most kicked the can on... if you have a more appropriate deity suggestion, please please please help me out. The only option I could suss out from my casual observation of the boards would be to start as a non-cleric and then RP a conversion into a cleric of Elion. Which would be mechanically questionable depending on the rest of the party’s build.


Shisumo wrote:

I'm going to be that guy and note that Milani is on your list twice.

In Tyrant's Grasp it is possible to get spells from Arazni, and she would be a very strong candidate for the AP's themes.

(Though whether it's always a good idea to meet your god is another question entirely.)

Arazni is a super-interesting option, and WHOOPS! I don’t mind “that guy” at all... I had a last minute epiphany about Hell’s Rebels and changed it without glancing at Age of Ashes.

Which one would you swap out, just out of curiosity?

Shadow Lodge

<Deity> is appropriately thematic where <iconic character> is used in the art:

Adowyn:Erastil
Alain:Abadar
Amiri:Gorum
Crowe:Desna
Damiel:Norgorber
Enora:Nethys
Feiya:Desna
Harsk:Torag
Imrijka:Pharasma
Jirelle:Cayden Cailean
Kess: Kurgess
Kyra:Sarenrae
Lazzero:Asmodeus
Lem:Shelyn
Lini:Green Faith
Linxia:Asmodeus
Mavaro:Pharasma
Merisiel:Calistria
Oloch:Gorum
Sajan:Irori
Seelah:Iomedae
Seltiyel:Asmodeus
Seoni:Pharasma
Urgraz:Mazmezz
Valeros:Cayden Cailean
Zadim:Sarenrae
Zelhara:Zon-Kuthon

(The remaining iconics are either atheist, agnostic, or have no deity listed in their descriptions on Pathfinderwiki.)

Liberty's Edge

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OctopusMacbeth wrote:

WHOOPS! I don’t mind “that guy” at all... I had a last minute epiphany about Hell’s Rebels and changed it without glancing at Age of Ashes.

Which one would you swap out, just out of curiosity?

Truthfully, I'd probably move Apsu to Age of Ashes and find something different for Ruins of Azlant. I have not read the latter, though, so I don't have a good suggestion for you.


Ok, I’ll try again, admitting I don’t know what I don’t know, getting rid of the dumb repetition rule, and taking y’all’s advice into account.

I’ve got:

Rise of the Runelords: Desna
Curse of the Crimson Throne: Abadar or Zon-Kuthon?
Legacy of Fire: Sarenrae
Council of Thieves: Iomedae or Shelyn?
Kingmaker: Erastil
Carrion Crown: Pharasma
Jade Regent: Shelyn or Desna?
Skull & Shackles: Besmara
Wrath of the Righteous: Iomedae
Iron Gods: Brigh
Hell’s Rebels: Milani
Hell’s Vengeance: Asmodeus
Return of the Runelords: Nocticula or Yog-Sothoth?
Tyrant’s Grasp: Andoletta or Arazni?

And for the rest I’ve no frelling idea. Trying on individual AP threads too, but y’all have been so helpful, so if you have any other ideas/violent disagreements, I’m excited to hear them! Thanks for helping me think through this.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Wouldn't the Peacock Spirit also be appropriate for Return of the Runelords as it answered a few forum theories?


Seannoss wrote:
Wouldn't the Peacock Spirit also be appropriate for Return of the Runelords as it answered a few forum theories?

While you could have a character who is a devotee of it (esp. at the start), the Peacock Spirit cult is set up to be antagonistic in the first few books (& then a non-issue thereafter because <spoiler>), so...

<shrug>


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Kingmaker has since very... interesting choices involving a sword should you be a Gorum worshiper


Ooh! Sounds cool, Vorsk. I won’t dig more but I’ll add it to my list.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Reign of Winter is hard to categorize because each book is so different from the others. I think the overall theme might point to Milani though, in that you're fighting against the spread of the unjust rule of Irrisen. This would be a thematic fit but there is only one brief connection to Milani in the story.

Shadow Lodge

Tikael wrote:
I think the overall theme might point to Milani though, in that you're fighting against the spread of the unjust rule of Irrisen.

Milani isn't necessarily about righting injustice,* or indeed about arresting an aggressive power's military expansion from without. She's the goddess of freedom, hope, and uprisings; if anything, Iomedae is the goddess of justice, and of just, defensive war. Of "freedom, hope, and uprisings," freedom is Milani's programmatic goal; uprisings and hope are the means to get there.

Nor does Milani have much to do with the overt politics of Reign of Winter, which are restorationist and conservative. Elvanna is a revisionist, and the PCs put her in her place. Milani is relevant because the PCs work with Milanites, and because they unwittingly help safeguard the Russian Revolution against the magically-enhanced Whites who are a byproduct of Rasputin's machinations in Akuvskaya.

* Some of the confusion arises because of the modern progressive habit of framing causes in terms of "[adjective] justice," a habit which really needs to get in the sea. It begs the question, and leaves an obvious out to defenders of the status quo. If, after all, the status quo is just, it doesn't need amending.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Uh. I can sort of see your weird logic with Hell's Rebels and Curse of the Crimson Throne, but how the heck you make Reign of Winter's witch queen political.

Like plot of Reign of Winter is about evil queen trying to conquer the world by making it into eternal winter land and you somehow make it about pcs being tools of monarchists again when in the ap itself there isn't really default ending. Like players at end of reign of winter can leave irrisen completely leaderless if they want to :p

Also, you are kinda derailing the thread with your agenda

Shadow Lodge

CorvusMask wrote:
Uh. I can sort of see your weird logic with Hell's Rebels and Curse of the Crimson Throne, but how the heck you make Reign of Winter's witch queen political.

Everything is political. This particular discussion is of whether and to what degree Milani is appropriate for Reign of Winter. Any discussion of whether Milani is appropriate for a cleric in an AP will inevitably involve that AP's political themes over others, given that Milani is a goddess of a specific form of political action.

As for Reign of Winter, its restoration is of Baba Yaga, the true power in Irrisen, against an upstart, usurping vicereine.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yeah but you can make her leave and never return without putting anybody in power in irrsen if you want to :p

Shadow Lodge

CorvusMask wrote:
Yeah but you can make her leave and never return without putting anybody in power in irrsen if you want to :p

She doesn't need to be physically present in Irrisen to be its determining power.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It explicitly says that if you do that she doesn't really care about what happens in irrisen as long as the eternal winter continues to exist :p

Anyhoo, I won't reply further since continuing derailing thread just to have last word is rude


Actually, as much as I’m sorry you aggravated one another, I had quite a few thoughts from the back-and-forth there, so I appreciate the input, all three of you!

On the RoW thread, someone made a case for Gozreh as well, as apparently Elvanna’s plan is an affront to nature. Don’t know if that’d be enough for either of you (and I know this adventure is more planar than divine), but it’s probably better than my... “eh... maybe Urgathoa? At least my gluttonous cleric will stay well-insulated.” :)

Thanks again!

Shadow Lodge

OctopusMacbeth wrote:
On the RoW thread, someone made a case for Gozreh as well, as apparently Elvanna’s plan is an affront to nature. Don’t know if that’d be enough for either of you

. . . I was the one who made that suggestion.


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Ng is pretty thematic for RoW, since his provenance are "seasons", "traveling because you have to", and "being coy about your actual objectives."


zimmerwald1915 wrote:
OctopusMacbeth wrote:
On the RoW thread, someone made a case for Gozreh as well, as apparently Elvanna’s plan is an affront to nature. Don’t know if that’d be enough for either of you
. . . I was the one who made that suggestion.

Oy vey, sorry Z! Just didn’t go back to check on the author. Not at all criticizing it, just wondered if it was enough of a link for what I was asking. Or, since you also made the point about the politics of the AP being restorationist/conservatism, would it be just as likely be Abadar/Erastil? Again, Gozreh is the one on my list for now, but since y’all both seemed knowledgeable about this AP (and I didn’t check names, d’oh!), I figured I’d fish for more possibilities. Thanks doubly.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
Ng is pretty thematic for RoW, since his provenance are "seasons", "traveling because you have to", and "being coy about your actual objectives."

First of all, username of the day. Secondly, I’d never heard of Ng... sort’ve has that LovecraftIan feeling, except less world-eaty. And you’re right that it’s portfolio seems dead on. Wish there were a plot connection, but it still seems like a really fun option, especially for a gnome cleric.


Shisumo wrote:
OctopusMacbeth wrote:

WHOOPS! I don’t mind “that guy” at all... I had a last minute epiphany about Hell’s Rebels and changed it without glancing at Age of Ashes.

Which one would you swap out, just out of curiosity?

Truthfully, I'd probably move Apsu to Age of Ashes and find something different for Ruins of Azlant. I have not read the latter, though, so I don't have a good suggestion for you.

Strong agree. Age of Ashes is very much Apsu, and I'm struggling to see any other.


Ok, y’all. With some STRONG help here and on the individual AP forums, in addition to a few other sites, I feel confident I have a strong first and second choice for each of the APs I plan to play in (and thus won’t read). And since my last two spaghetti-against-the-wall attempts, I’ve now actually READ all the APs I plan to run someday. Helpful, go figure. So here’s my third and probably last attempt at this... I hope some would-be-cleric gets some help from this one day:

Rise of the Runelords: Desna (or Erastil)
Curse of the Crimson Throne: Abadar (or Shelyn)
Second Darkness: Calistria (or Iomedae)
Legacy of Fire: Sarenrae (or Abadar)
Council of Thieves: Shelyn (or Iomedae)
Kingmaker: Erastil (or Gorum)
Serpent’s Skull: Shelyn (or Shimye-Magalla)
Carrion Crown: Pharasma (or Desna)
Jade Regent: Shelyn (or Desna)
Skull & Shackles: Besmara (or Norgorber)
Shattered Star: Torag (or Desna)
Reign of Winter: Gozreh (or Alseta)
Wrath of the Righteous: Iomedae (or Sarenrae)
Mummy’s Mask: Nethys (or Sekhmet)
Iron Gods: Brigh (or Gorum)
Giantslayer: Thremyr (or Gozreh)
Hell’s Rebels: Milani (or Calistria)
Hell’s Vengeance: Asmodeus (or Abadar)
Strange Aeons: Desna (or Groetus)
Ironfang Invasion: Erastil (or Torag)
Ruins of Azlant: Abadar (or Shelyn)
War for the Crown: Sarenrae (or Eritrice)
Return of the Runelords: Tawil at’Umr (or Pharasma)
Tyrant’s Grasp: Sarenrae (or Pharasma)
Age of Ashes: Apsu (or Caiden Cailean)
Extinction Curse: Gozreh (or the Lantern King)

Thanks to everyone who let me pick your brains: really appreciate it.

Acquisitives

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
OctopusMacbeth wrote:

Giantslayer: Thremyr (or Gozreh)

Hell’s Rebels: Milani (or Calistria)
Hell’s Vengeance: Asmodeus (or Abadar)
War for the Crown: Sarenrae (or Eritrice)
Return of the Runelords: Tawil at’Umr (or Pharasma)
Tyrant’s Grasp: Sarenrae (or Pharasma)
Age of Ashes: Apsu (or Caiden Cailean)

Thanks to everyone who let me pick your brains: really appreciate it.

some quibbles;

Giantslayer - it is almost certainly not at all appropriate to worship Thremyr, the evil god of evil frost giants in this AP. Gorum or Erastil are far better fits for a frontier community under constant guard against attack.

Hell's Rebels - Calistria, while not wrong per se, is probably subpar to Shelyn or Iomedae. Milani is the strongest choice. I'm currently playing it, and I think my character might go over to the worship of Milani.

Hell's Vengeance - Asmodeus is clearly #1. But you do some real awful stuff in HV, and for no profit. I would swap out Abadar for Zon Kuthon.

War for the Crown - while Sarenrae is probably not a bad choice... Abadar or Shelyn are probably stronger. Your PCs represent the elite classes of Taldor, who have lingering prejudice against the Sarenites.

Return of the Runelords - worshipping an aspect of Yog-Sothoth is not a good choice for a PC. IIRC, the player's guide explicitly calls out this deity as a bad choice. Desna is probably better.

Tyrant's Grasp: swap out Saranrae for Iomedae. Iomedae is the state religion of Lastwall.

Age of Ashes: I wouldn't lead with Apsu as, the AP doesn't start in that vein. Erastil, Iomedae, Sarenrae, Abadar, or (as you pointed out, Caiden Caileean) is probably better. The AP intentionally (and rightly) starts you as 'generic adventurer' [not a bad thing] so 'generic adventurer god' is probably where you want to start out.


Yakman wrote:


Return of the Runelords - worshipping an aspect of Yog-Sothoth is not a good choice for a PC. IIRC, the player's guide explicitly calls out this deity as a bad choice. Desna is probably better.

Disagreement on this. The Player's guide actually says:

Return of the Runelords Player's Guide wrote:


Yog-Sothoth/Tawil at’Umr: The theme of
time, its passage, and of dangers emerging
from the distant past help to make worship
of any deity associated with time especially
appropriate for Return of the Runelords,
but worship of the Outer God Yog-Sothoth or
his avatar Tawil at’Umr is of particular note, for the
so-called Key and the Gate is one of the most obscure and
powerful deities of the Great Beyond. His cult, whether they
revere him as Yog-Sothoth or his more human-shaped (yet
still fundamentally alien) incarnation as Tawil at’Umr, is not
an organized religion, and those who venerate the Outer God
tend to be loners who are just as prone to bicker and fight
with others of their faith as they are anyone else. Followers
of Yog-Sothoth or Tawil at’Umr can be chaotic good,
chaotic neutral, or chaotic evil (see Alignment on page 5 for
additional advice for evil PCs). If you want your character to
worship Yog-Sothoth or Tawil at’Umr, speak to your GM first
to make sure it’s okay. Those who do venerate the Outer God
will certainly have some interesting moments in Return of
the Runelords.

It's less called out as a bad choice and more that you should speak with your GM first to make sure it's okay, and I think the moment in Return of the Runelords it applies to makes it quite impactful.

I agree with your other quibbles, though. I'd say Iomedae works for Giantslayer as well, since there is a church there.

OctopusMacbeth wrote:


Return of the Runelords: Tawil at’Umr (or Pharasma)

I disagree with Pharasma as the second choice for Return of the Runelords - I think Desna, the Redeemer Queen, or Arshea are better options.

Liberty's Edge

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I'd strongly argue that, for WotR, Iomedae should be the #1 deity, followed by Desna. Sarenrae's focus on redemption is certainly appropriate, but Iomedae is by far the most relevant deity followed very closely by Desna. Not in theme, but both for extremely specific reasons that would be spoilers to reveal. But seriously, it's Iomedae and Desna.

I'd also argue that, while Abadar certainly features prominently in CotCT, and later books are debatably about preserving the rule of law, the initial incident that the PCs get together during probably actively violates his anathema, and so do a lot of their actions during the first few books. I'd argue he's an actively bad deity for a PC to worship in that AP for that very reason.

Acquisitives

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Deadmanwalking wrote:

I'd strongly argue that, for WotR, Iomedae should be the #1 deity, followed by Desna. Sarenrae's focus on redemption is certainly appropriate, but Iomedae is by far the most relevant deity followed very closely by Desna. Not in theme, but both for extremely specific reasons that would be spoilers to reveal. But seriously, it's Iomedae and Desna.

I'd also argue that, while Abadar certainly features prominently in CotCT, and later books are debatably about preserving the rule of law, the initial incident that the PCs get together during probably actively violates his anathema, and so do a lot of their actions during the first few books. I'd argue he's an actively bad deity for a PC to worship in that AP for that very reason.

I concur. Abadar's church is:

Spoiler:
set up as a stumbling block to the PCs during the 2nd & 3rd books. Abadar's religion is probably fine for a PC to start with, but I can't see a decent person sticking with it following the events of those 2 books. Similar to Hell's Rebels, Milani might be a good option for such a PC.

Silver Crusade

I'm a player in Giantslayer at the moment (at the start of Book 3). The Church of Iomedae has been the most prominent religion so far (church locations and NPCs).


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Also a player in a giantslayer game (Nearing the end of book 3) Agree heavily with Iomadae, but i would also argue Gorum, both with the greatsword players can find in book 2, the rc warlord in book 2, and that Lastwall/Hold of Belzken have that strong push on many of the knights and fighters against the orcs, as well as the orcs that you face early on, are worshipers of Gorum.

The APs strong push for Dwarf players and characters can make an argument for many Torag themes, but that would be on a PC personal level, and not something clearly evident in the AP.


Yakman wrote:

Giantslayer - it is almost certainly not at all appropriate to worship Thremyr, the evil god of evil frost giants in this AP. Gorum or Erastil are far better fits for a frontier community under constant guard against attack.

Ha, yeah this was the one almost deliberately chosen to ruffle some feathers, as Giantslayer is almost perversely non-religious as an AP. And of course Gorum has the magic weapon and Erastil fits the theme, as you say above, but human tribesmen from the Realm of the Mammoth Lords (quite close to Belkzen) worship Thremyr as Chaotic Neutral clerics. So this savage strength-worshipping cleric is in Trunau and it’s attacked. Of course he fights back.

Then you have the amazing opportunities with the wolves and the statue in book 4, and all kinds of diplomatic options in 6... I’m sticking with Thremyr.

And Gozreh, well, he doesn’t fit at all thematically, but story wise he’s all over, especially if you add the extra encounter in... book 2? 3?

Acquisitives

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
OctopusMacbeth wrote:
Yakman wrote:

Giantslayer - it is almost certainly not at all appropriate to worship Thremyr, the evil god of evil frost giants in this AP. Gorum or Erastil are far better fits for a frontier community under constant guard against attack.

Ha, yeah this was the one almost deliberately chosen to ruffle some feathers, as Giantslayer is almost perversely non-religious as an AP. And of course Gorum has the magic weapon and Erastil fits the theme, as you say above, but human tribesmen from the Realm of the Mammoth Lords (quite close to Belkzen) worship Thremyr as Chaotic Neutral clerics. So this savage strength-worshipping cleric is in Trunau and it’s attacked. Of course he fights back.

Then you have the amazing opportunities with the wolves and the statue in book 4, and all kinds of diplomatic options in 6... I’m sticking with Thremyr.

And Gozreh, well, he doesn’t fit at all thematically, but story wise he’s all over, especially if you add the extra encounter in... book 2? 3?

Thats fine if you want to make that character, but that’s not true to the text of the AP.

The Mammoth Lords are on the other side of Belkzen from Trunau. They don’t travel much. Moreover, while a Mammoth Lord barbarian on vacation (?) might “fight back” if the town is attacked, they would have no reason to do anything else in Book 1 or any of the later volumes.


Yakman wrote:


Hell's Vengeance - Asmodeus is clearly #1. But you do some real awful stuff in HV, and for no profit. I would swap out Abadar for Zon Kuthon.

Tyrant's Grasp: swap out Saranrae for Iomedae. Iomedae is the state religion of Lastwall.

Though I don’t agree with all your reasoning (though I appreciate it all), these two are PARTICULARLY helpful fixes that I’m making to my list toot sweets.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
I'd strongly argue that, for WotR, Iomedae should be the #1 deity, followed by Desna. Sarenrae's focus on redemption is certainly appropriate, but Iomedae is by far the most relevant deity followed very closely by Desna. Not in theme, but both for extremely specific reasons that would be spoilers to reveal. But seriously, it's Iomedae and Desna.

This is EXACTLY the kinda insight I’m paying the big bucks to post in this forum for. Gives me what I need to know without going over the edge. My sheet has been updated. Thank you.

Deadmanwalking wrote:
I'd also argue that, while Abadar certainly features prominently in CotCT, and later books are debatably about preserving the rule of law, the initial incident that the PCs get together during probably actively violates his anathema, and so do a lot of their actions during the first few books. I'd argue he's an actively bad deity for a PC to worship in that AP for that very reason.

Would you put Shelyn up-front then, Deadman, or Iomedae, as the most tolerated in the city? Or Milani, as our antennaed friend suggests, but others have explicitly warned against? Or Zon-Kuthon...?

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