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I must admit though, this discussion is making me a little curious - what would be the strongest mono-class party (with multiclassing allowed)?
Sorcerers of different bloodlines, of course. :)
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@Mark: It looks like you're following this discussion quite closely.
Once I post in a thread, it leaves a dot next to the thread that makes me much more likely to click on it again when there are new responses.
I must admit though, this discussion is making me a little curious - what would be the strongest mono-class party (with multiclassing allowed)?
They're all going to have some holes in what they can do. The Champx4 is reasonable if you focus really heavily on filling in the weak points with ranged champions instead of doubling down in melee, and you can probably go nonstop encounters without resting until you find that point, like SuperBidi said, where the gimmick is just something you can't handle and you all wipe.
If you're willing to rest *a lot* more and be careful and clever about your engagements and actions, then the answer might be to "cheat" by picking a class like sorcerer or witch that can get you every tradition of magic in one group, even though you only used one class to do it. But your sustain in that case is very low, since cantrips alone won't suffice in most encounters, even ones the champ party could just curbstomp, so you're spending resources and resting a lot more often.
EDIT: Ninjaed by Del Taco Eater!
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I must admit though, this discussion is making me a little curious - what would be the strongest mono-class party (with multiclassing allowed)?
My cut reaction is to say Druid.
A team of Druids can do an imitation of the traditional party structure while also being capable of swapping and out of any functional requirements.
Plus they can conduct air raids!
I wouldn’t want to flock with that.
I agree with @SuperBidi. While 4 Champions might wreck havoc within the confines of our typical close quarters dungeon, I can't see them dealing well with ranged enemies. Champion's reaction is only 15', so if the enemy has effective means to stay at range and attack from afar this group will be shown their limits pretty fast.
...while passing the Thunderhoof graslands our 4 heroes quickly found that all their battle prowess was no match for the speed and archery skills of the local centaur tribe and their trusted longbows...
Can't you make a ranged champion? Maybe make a couple of them multiclass rangers with hunted prey or multiclass fighters? I think one of the Champion Feats is ranged reprisal? Champion's reaction works against Dragon's breath as near as I can tell. It's any attack that does damage.
I must admit though, this discussion is making me a little curious - what would be the strongest mono-class party (with multiclassing allowed)?My cut reaction is to say Druid.
A team of Druids can do an imitation of the traditional party structure while also being capable of swapping and out of any functional requirements.
Plus they can conduct air raids!
I wouldn’t want to flock with that.
A party of well-built druids would be extremely versatile. You could even have four animal companions along with plenty of blasting powers, tanking, and healing. That would be a devastating group.
I must admit though, this discussion is making me a little curious - what would be the strongest mono-class party (with multiclassing allowed)?
Cavern elf monks with longbows.
Use the mobility and range to win many encounter (strike 100', and move twice to get away 80'+). Deflect arrow to help prevent the same trick from happening to you.
Everyone can also sneak with dark vision so ambushes work well too, and you can escape.
And if your caught in melee, just punch stuff.
With ki spells, they can get divine / occult mastery. So one bard, one cleric, one mountain, and not sure about the 4th (any good way to get flat-footed?)
Druid are also very flexible.
Oh man, my old playtest party wanted to see if an all-martial party worked. That's how we did our lv17 playtest.
I mean we had one caster multiclass, because in playtest there was this strong feel that martial chassis was a lot better and caster multiclass would still get you almost anything as martial feats weren't great - but yeah basically all martials.
It was a majestic TPK. They had a wonderful, insane amount of damage, but they just couldn't handle the magic once the big spellcaster came into play. They bursted down Basically Cthulu, a bunch of nightmarish monsters, a huge ass dragon, and then got their asses handed to them by a single lv20 caster who they kept chopping pieces out of but simply picked them off one by one. They had no way to remove disables, they could not stop him from casting, and when the rogue kept disrupting his buffs, he got Maze'd.
It's a wonderful way to go. But I'd stick with a more balanced party ;)
Oh man, my old playtest party wanted to see if an all-martial party worked. That's how we did our lv17 playtest.
I mean we had one caster multiclass, because in playtest there was this strong feel that martial chassis was a lot better and caster multiclass would still get you almost anything as martial feats weren't great - but yeah basically all martials.
It was a majestic TPK. They had a wonderful, insane amount of damage, but they just couldn't handle the magic once the big spellcaster came into play. They bursted down Basically Cthulu, a bunch of nightmarish monsters, a huge ass dragon, and then got their asses handed to them by a single lv20 caster who they kept chopping pieces out of but simply picked them off one by one. They had no way to remove disables, they could not stop him from casting, and when the rogue kept disrupting his buffs, he got Maze'd.
It's a wonderful way to go. But I'd stick with a more balanced party ;)
Well, dying on the very first round to weird even after using a hero point doesn't bode well for a fight…
Also the nice thing about caster monsters is that they can also have very solid attacks in addition to spells. Pc caster attacks are a lot worse. And stupified was also pretty brutal…
At high levels casters definitely hold there own. Level is very important for what party would be best. I think casters are a lot more likely to be in a effective high level party than a low level one (magic weapon is nice, but I think I'd still rather have another fighter for in combat)
My ideal party:
First, a Bard. It goes good with everything and acts as the face. I would pair that with a Druid since the Primal and Occult list have the fewest spells in common. That should be good for healing and other other magicki-ness. Between songs and pet use, these casters have a bit more to do at low levels too.
After that, I would fill out the party with some melee martials. I think an Einhander Fighter is good since it can easily make stuff flat footed with Snagging Strike - against ranged too, if I read it right. I would pair that with a rogue.
In a 5-man, I would add a Spirit Barb since it can convert all its damage to positive to get past resistances (at least that's how it reads).
Oh man, my old playtest party wanted to see if an all-martial party worked. That's how we did our lv17 playtest.
<SNIP>
It's a wonderful way to go. But I'd stick with a more balanced party ;)
Sounds awesome fun and perfectly demonstrates the point about very specialised parties - which is more effective - a party that curb stomps 9 encounters and dies gloriously in the 10th or one that scrapes to victory in 10 encounters?
Certainly seems like its fun to try the 9 curb stomps and a TPK option once in a while!
I don't dare think I know enough about the game to come up with a "super effective" party composition, but my thought process is two pairs of Rangers and Druids, each one having an animal companion.
Rangers bring the martial prowess and can competently fight from range or in the thick of things, and depending on your build can even play switch-hitter if necessary.
Druids bring the heavy-hitting magical prowess, bombarding and buffing and healing as the situation demands it. They can even dip into other orders to get a few additional fancy powers, and if they're really so inclined can even dive into the fight themselves.
And on top of all of this are four animal companions, each bringing something special to the fight and capable of filling any holes in the composition based on what you need. Need a brutish tank? You've got it. Need a nimble skirmisher? No problem. Need aerial support? Bird is, in fact, the word.
On top of that is the simple action economy of having eight bodies on the field, because having the advantage in numbers is always a boon.
Champion (Liberator)
Champion (Liberator)
Champion (Liberator)
Champion (Redeemer)
A really cool combo that synergises strongly
But yes weaknesses to Area of Effect, lack of good ranged attacks, and magical utility.Multiclassing can cover some of it.
If I had to go with a party of 4 martials it would have to be 4 fighters. The best to hit and around defense, with plenty of room to multiclass out to where ever you want, as your best abilities are baked into the class.
Fighter with polearm and maybe a touch of Barbarian
Fighter with a heavy multiclass into Druid for wildshape and also utility magic
Fighter Archer with multiclass Rogue for some extra skills and precision damage
Fighter Archer with multiclass Sorcerer/Bard for utility magic and some social skills
Every character has good defenses and hits hard. Every character is slightly different to play.
All four would have Point Blank Shot and be at least good at range with a bow as a primary or secondary weapon.
All four would be at least good at melee, with either a two handed melee weapon or in two weapon fighting.
At least 2 would have Battle Medicine.
The magic multiclassed characters would concentrate their magic on buffs, removing negative conditions, with some healing.
Plently of combat power and utility but no real magic offense. Healing will be a little slower but if you have a few ten minute breaks recovery is almost automatic. Potions and scrolls can cover a lot.
If I had to go with 4 characters of the same class and build
I would go with four Druids
All start in Order of the Storm, for maximum focus points and to abuse Storm Born with Obscuring Mist.
Then use Order Explorer to get into Wildshape.
Gorilla's in the Mist.
Eventually dragons. The whole party flies and breathes destruction.
But they also have magic, healing and stealth...