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When I get asked to play a cleric [Often because no one else wants to play a healer of any sort] I often play a Cleric of Abadar, I charge the characters for healing magic and other assorted needs I fill as they need them if they don't agree to equal share of all wealth found. Generally getting contracts filled and following the letter of the law.
Generally I play the cleric as Lawful Neutral. I've changed up the Domain Choices I a few times. But generally I go with Protection Domain pretty consistently.
I've also used the Church of Abadar in most campaigns I run as main source of healing for the cities. Only had two players that disliked it, mostly because in game, they didn't like a Group member charging for services and loved the idea of keeping any money & items for themselves.
they really didn't like it when they told my character they would outright refuse to pay him, that he in turn refused to heal them, even using Selective Channel to prevent their healing in a group. I had a decent enough AC to avoid getting hit.
[I will admit, I started this type of Cleric because of these two and now It's grown to be my favorite type of Cleric to play]
Now in campaigns I sit on, if those two are around, they dread no one playing the cleric :D Cause I'll chime in I have one.
Only Cleric I have played, personally, was an Elder Mythos Cleric... however, that was before I found out about the Divine Paragon/Evangelist prestige class combination.
Now, any Cleric I play in the future, and most of the Cleric NPC's I develop, will be:
Divine Paragon Cleric-5/
Evangelist PrC-10
My Elder Mythos Cleric was a Kobold, and his main focus was Aid Another abusing Adopted/Helpful...
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I don't play Clerics at all. I find them mechanically boring, as their only real class features are: spells, domains and channel energy. I'd play a war-priest before I play a cleric.
When a 'healer' is required in a game (a role that I have no issues playing, and that I do enjoy), I play an different class that gets the ability to fill that role and do other stuff as well. Things like an Oracle, Shaman, Druid, War-priest, a Psychic or even a Skald.
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Different folks, different strokes. I've played all of those except for war priest and psychic. Just curiosity, what makes Oracle more interesting for you? I see spells for spells, domains for mystery, and channel for curse(~?). What puts oracle over the variety edge?
Not sure, I've played them all. Clerics are certainly not as boring as people make them out to be, at least to me.
Although I have found an Oracle of Bones/Negative Energy Channel Cleric to be a Terrifying combination. a Burst effect that causes bleed to everyone even on a successful will save. (did this for a Horror Game with a Wererat Priestess of Calistria, she was in league with a master illusionist that owned a Brothel in a town, the wererat was changing people into her minions via Lycanthropy and the group was hired to find out why ladies of high society where had started to slum it at a high end Brothel that used magical illusions.)
Different folks, different strokes. I've played all of those except for war priest and psychic. Just curiosity, what makes Oracle more interesting for you? I see spells for spells, domains for mystery, and channel for curse(~?). What puts oracle over the variety edge?
Not sure, I've played them all. Clerics are certainly not as boring as people make them out to be, at least to me.
Oracles get a lot more class features from their Mystery/Curse than Clerics do from their domains. Clerics have about 18 dead levels discounting Channel Energy(Which is hella boring). Or 9 dead levels if you want to consider gaining a new spell level a non-dead level. Or if you look at it another way, they get 5 class features. 4 from domains and the ability to be a healbot.
Thematically, I really really like Clerics, but I can't stand playing them anymore. Their spell list is pretty limited until you get 4th level spells and then you can start branching out. Battle Clerics watch as their martial ability slowly begins to be the least useful thing they can do any round.
Channelers of the Unknown are cool though. Synergizes really well with the Channel Smite line.
I charge the characters for healing magic and other assorted needs I fill as they need them if they don't agree to equal share of all wealth found.
Haha that's a great way of dealing with being forced to play the healer.
I'm growing more fond of Clerics lately. I see their spell-casting as the best in the game (9th level prepared and you get access to the whole list? Mind blown!), and there's enough going on with deities, domains, archetypes etc that I can have fun with. I also like divine casters generally for the flavour.
My "standard" cleric (not that I've played many) would start with something like: S14, D-12, C-14, I-7, W-18, C-12 (20 point build for human and similar races) and have a Longspear and Combat Reflexes at level 1. Plays as a secondary front-liner who becomes an armoured wisdom-wizard.
I tend to play them as friendly outgoing types, though age/race/experience/outlook/fears/etc change. I just realised of the 3 Clerics i've played they've all been female, not a conscious choice but there you go.
EDIT: Heh, my latest two were The Maiden and The Mother (again not a conscious choice), I guess the next one should be The Crone.
Herald caller makes for a pretty unique summoner. I’ve played 2 different builds of it. You get bonus skill points and the ability to easily communicate with anything you summon, which means you don’t need linguistics or handle animal like a lot of summoners need.
I’ve been tempted to try ecclesitheurge and blossoming light, but probably won’t for a long time. I guess I like my clerics to be more of a caster than a fighter.
If making a follower of Abadar, I prefer the inquisitor. The class makes a natural shrewd business man.
Most of the clerics I've played recently were necromancers. It's hard to pass up early access to animate dead and the ability to heal your minions. There's even multiple ways to get the missing arcane spells.
That being said Pathfinder still doesn't support being a necromancer as much as 3.5 did so it's a struggle to find worth while things to spend feats on. At best I have found one or two good feats and half a dozen mediocre ones I could take.
I agree that clerics look kind of lackluster but i think it's because they're fairly unchanged from 3.0 and so unless you care about your domain abilities/FCB you give up very little persuing a prestige class that gives caster progression.
Herald caller makes for a pretty unique summoner. I’ve played 2 different builds of it. You get bonus skill points and the ability to easily communicate with anything you summon, which means you don’t need linguistics or handle animal like a lot of summoners need.
I think the Herald Caller looks good, but I can't decide if the Evangelist makes a better summoner. What do you (and others) think?
I’ve been tempted to try ecclesitheurge and blossoming light, but probably won’t for a long time. I guess I like my clerics to be more of a caster than a fighter.
I'm playing an Ecclesitheurge. Only level 2, so basically just a downgrade so far (no armour) but it looks pretty amazing from level 3. I thought this was one of the most caster-osh Clerics out there?
Different folks, different strokes. I've played all of those except for war priest and psychic. Just curiosity, what makes Oracle more interesting for you? I see spells for spells, domains for mystery, and channel for curse(~?). What puts oracle over the variety edge?
For me, it comes down to the versatility of the class features offered, and the customization available to mechanically distinguish between different characters. I also prefer spontaneous casting over prepared casting, though I acknowledge that perfect foresight gives the edge to prepared casters. A well built cleric is quite rewarding to play, just not my preference.
One of the most rewarding characters I've designed (and seen run by my wife), was a half-elf Rivethun Psychic in the Hell's Rebels campaign. She channeled the Life spirit. I was playing a Halfling Vigilante (Zealot), with another player running a Human Vigilante (Teisatsu) and a half-elf Magus.
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I like the Evangelist Cleric for summoning. Being able to populate the battlefield with minions, Inspire Courage to your allies AND your minions, as well as heal your allies AND your minions. It seems pretty solid, although I haven't played one.
Different folks, different strokes. I've played all of those except for war priest and psychic. Just curiosity, what makes Oracle more interesting for you? I see spells for spells, domains for mystery, and channel for curse(~?). What puts oracle over the variety edge?For me, it comes down to the versatility of the class features offered, and the customization available to mechanically distinguish between different characters. I also prefer spontaneous casting over prepared casting, though I acknowledge that[b] perfect foresight gives the edge to prepared casters[b]. A well built cleric is quite rewarding to play, just not my preference.
For me what gives the edge to prepared casters is the earlier access to higher level spells. At even levels Cleric and Oracle should have the dame number of spell slots available for their highest level of spells, but at odd levels the the Cleric has 3 spells per day of a level the Oracle can't cast (1 normal +1 Domain +1 WIS). Personally I don't know why all 9th level spontaneous casters get that nerf, but hey whatever.
Havibg said that I do think Oracles offer a more doverse set of abilties (flavourful and mechanical).
On 6th level casters I definitely perfer spontaneous casting, but it doesn't define my favourite classes.
I like the Evangelist Cleric for summoning. Being able to populate the battlefield with minions, Inspire Courage to your allies AND your minions, as well as heal your allies AND your minions. It seems pretty solid, although I haven't played one.
I've played an Evangelist (The Maiden), but not a summoning one. I really enjoyed it, and could see it being an amazing summoner if built for it. But I can also see the merits of the Herald caller. I guess I don't see what the Herald caller offers to compete with Inspire Courage (although if you have a bard in the party obviously Herald Caller would be better).
I play a lot of clerics, because I find the religion gives me an extra hook into roleplay and personality. Off the top of my head, recent ones are:
- a 3.5 cleric/rogue of the god of trickery, (taking advantage of the 3.5 feat that stacked cleric levels for sneak attack) who was kind and fluffy till she got annoyed and went into assassin mode.
- an archery focussed cleric of Desna, elf with longbow and self-buffing
- a healing and buffing focussed cleric/evangelist of Milani who hasn’t hit anything for about six levels because he’s too busy giving other people power ups
- a tengu herald caller of Tsukiyo who likes to solve encounters with hordes of eagles.
I’ve tried playing an oracle, and played with other people’s oracles, and I found them dull - the limited spell selection and curses just seem to lock the character into approaching every encounter the same way,.
Besides the skill advantage, the herald caller can spontaneously cast both cure spells and summoning spells, which gives a lot of flexibility when preparing spells. The evangelist gives up spontaneous cures and a lot of channel progression. Maybe if you hate healing, the evangelist is ok, but I like how the herald caller lets me be flexible in any encounter.
Also, being able to communicate perfectly to your summoned creatures shouldn’t be underestimated. For instance, you can summon an eagle and tell it to fetch an object, flip a switch or set off a trap.
Besides the skill advantage, the herald caller can spontaneously cast both cure spells and summoning spells, which gives a lot of flexibility when preparing spells. The evangelist gives up spontaneous cures and a lot of channel progression. Maybe if you hate healing, the evangelist is ok, but I like how the herald caller lets me be flexible in any encounter.
Also, being able to communicate perfectly to your summoned creatures shouldn’t be underestimated. For instance, you can summon an eagle and tell it to fetch an object, flip a switch or set off a trap.
Oh I totally misread it. I thought the spontaneous summons replaced spontaneous heals, that does make it a bit better.
The skills and Communication with summons are nice, but not game-changing in the same way that Inspire Courage is. I think the spontaneous heals actually does make it more appealing though, it's just more options which makes this a much more versatile archetype.
Thanks for teaching me =)
EDIT: To clarify, I think Inspire Courage is still the biggest buff between the two archetypes, but the Herald Caller gets more small buffs which add up to be a nice package.
For me what gives the edge to prepared casters is the earlier access to higher level spells. At even levels Cleric and Oracle should have the dame number of spell slots available for their highest level of spells, but at odd levels the the Cleric has 3 spells per day of a level the Oracle can't cast (1 normal +1 Domain +1 WIS). Personally I don't know why all 9th level spontaneous casters get that nerf, but hey whatever.
If all I was interested in was acquiring as much power as possible, as early as possible, the prepared casters would probably be my go-to casters to play. I am more of a... delayed gratification type of person. The slow build to power, and the anticipation of achieving that next level, is more appealing to me. Some people don't understand that mindset.
I actually do have a preference for 6th level casters. That niche is where I find the most enjoyment out of all the classes (aside from the Druid and Shaman classes, which are exceptions to may general prepared vs spontaneous preference. I'd gladly make them spontaneous if I could). I actually enjoy playing most characters that I get around to building. There are a few exceptions (like the Alchemist, Cavalier, Antipaladin and swashbuckler).
Next cleric I want to play a greatsword wielding gorumite using channel smite and guided hand
Ive never had a good experience with building a martial cleric. It’s fine at low level, but very quickly you find yourself having better things to do with your actions than attack with a weapon.
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Ive never had a good experience with building a martial cleric. It’s fine at low level, but very quickly you find yourself having better things to do with your actions than attack with a weapon.
That's the purpose of a Reach Cleric: Cast spells with your Standard Action and attack with a weapon during the GM's turn. Other sorts of cleric must choose which half of the character to use each round. Reach clerics do both at once.
I've played most sorts of cleric. Here's a List of Cleric Types. They are:
Support Cleric: The “Default” build. A support caster that can wade into melee with weapon and shield to dish out some beats on his own when needed.
Battle Cleric: The melee beast that at one point was a better fighter than the class by the same name.
Reach Cleric: A more effective battle cleric. Specialized in fighting multiple opponents. Mechanically superior to a 'greatsword cleric' in every way.
Archer Cleric: Part support caster, part long range threat a good balanced build that works for every situation.
The Lord of Undeath: Necromancers got some very nice upgrades in Pathfinder that makes this build worth taking into high levels.
The Bad Touch Cleric: The total opposite of the support cleric. Where he buffs, you debuff, where he remains outside of combat, you flit in and out of danger flirting with disaster and sewing chaos and discord with every step you tread.
The Pure Casting Cleric: You’re no wizard harry. But you don’t necessarily have to be. The caster cleric focuses almost entirely upon the cleric’s casting ability making him ideal for low point buy games or just badly rolled characters.
I don't play clerics very often, but when I do, they're clerics of a philosophy.
...Though I do have one concept for a Vudran cleric whose rather pathetic familiar is their household god incarnate.
I've played an Evangelist (The Maiden), but not a summoning one. I really enjoyed it, and could see it being an amazing summoner if built for it. But I can also see the merits of the Herald caller. I guess I don't see what the Herald caller offers to compete with Inspire Courage (although if you have a bard in the party obviously Herald Caller would be better).
I realize this has already been addressed in part, but to me, free Augment Summoning and Superior Summons and no need to take the useless Spell Focus (Conjuration), the ability to channel and heal your summons no matter where they are, the ability to spontaneously cast Cure or Summon spells so you never need to prepare either one, the ability to communicate with your summons, and +2 skill points per level more than make up for the lack of Inspire Courage.
Yeah I'm seeing it now. It's a lot of smaller bonuses adding up.
Actually it still hadn't occurred to me that you're saving Three feats (I forgot about the Spell Focus prerequisite), so that's another point in favour of the Herald Caller on a class that usually doesn't have any bonus feats.
But hey, why not have 2 clerics in thebparty right?
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I play a lot of clerics, because I find the religion gives me an extra hook into roleplay and personality.
Same here. Any two clerics can be as radically different as if I were playing a fighter or a wizard. They can be 'healbots' or self-buffing tanky sorts that wade into melee or primary casters. So versatile!
Mine have included (mostly primary casters with a side of healbot);
Clerics of Nethys, Erastil, Urgathoa, Abadar, Calistria and Asmodeus.
Eventually I'll want to get a cleric of Desna in there as well, but I'm hoping to sneak in a custom trait that allows them to swap out throwing stars or throwing crescents (same stat as darts, but slashing damage?) for the starknife, as a favored weapon, 'cause I irrationally dislike the starknife. :)
And then there's all those lesser gods and empyreals and whatnot. I try to cover some of the 'more common' options before indulging in the specialized ones, but, oy, there are so many! Brigh, Sivanah, Yuelral, Soralyon and so on!
Heck, I even played a 'cleric' of Razmir in one game. (Mechanically, he was a bard, but do not tell him that!)
Cleric may be the best tank in the game. Good saves and shield other makes it very hard to kill your squishiest ally. And gaining “threat” is basically baked in. Heal tanking.
i love playing clerics ever since i played one starting at 14th level in my first AD&D game (it was sophomore year of high school, so of course it makes no sense my first character is 14 level character.
I am fond of the pacifist heal bot armed with only heavy armor and shield in first edition, now with 2e, you can be an excellent healbot with charisma investment, and can dole out righteous smiting to the undead and fiends. i just adore 2e clerics.
Melee undead-bane cleric in AD&D 2nd.
PF1 have yet to play a cleric beyond 2nd level, but he focused on buffing.
PF2 am attempting to build a lustful gnomish cleric of Calistra for a soon to be launched game - unsure what party role to fill there.
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Ive never had a good experience with building a martial cleric. It’s fine at low level, but very quickly you find yourself having better things to do with your actions than attack with a weapon.
That's interesting, and yeah I haven't seen any good martial clerics played in pathfinder either (though I have seen a few bad ones). However, the martial cleric was one of the best builds in D&D3e and pretty much blew the fighter out of the water at high levels with their melee prowess.
Personally, I dislike all the Golarion religions so I avoid playing religions characters in this setting.
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That's interesting, and yeah I haven't seen any good martial clerics played in pathfinder either (though I have seen a few bad ones). However, the martial cleric was one of the best builds in D&D3e and pretty much blew the fighter out of the water at high levels with their melee prowess.
My experiences with both PF1 and D&D 3.5 martial clerics is that we'd enter combat and they'd spend round 1 casting some self-buff like righteous might, and round 2 casting some other self-buff like divine power (I don't remember the specific examples...), and *finally* be as good as the party Fighter was on round 1 (and not quite as good as the raging Barbarian or smiting Paladin), and then they'd move to engage just as the mob died and not get a hit in.
And then they'd whine 'I'm not a healbot' if asked for a heal.
I was not a fan, but that was more bad experiences because of specific people (and the fast, fast nature of combat in late-edition games, where many characters have some big alpha strikes, and the action-consuming nature of self-buffing during combat), not a knock on the concept.
I do like that if the tanky gets petrified or whatever, the Cleric can often step in and hold the line for a time, with the right spells, but I usually like the right tool for the job, and prefer to leave the front lines to the front-liners, and telling the Wizard that knowing the knock spell doesn't mean 'we don't need a Rogue' either. :)
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I think the mechanics of 3e made spending actions for buffs fine. In pf1, there's many classes that can self buff without spending actions (or only swift ones), making the standard action to buff self not as appealing. Martial classes also received a significant boost from 3e to pf1, making it so those buffs now bring the cleric up to on par with the martial instead of ahead.
The only cleric I've actually played as a pc in pf1 was of the blossoming light. Focused on channeling, with cha as main stat, feats, domains, traits, and magic items all to boost channeling. Was a blast at low levels getting to slaughter hordes of hapless kobolds by channeling positive energy at them.
In 3.0, a lot of buff spells had durations of hours per level. So the cleric could use a lot of spells at the beginning of the adventuring day to outperform an un-buffed fighter while still having some good spell slots left over.