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Hi folks. I'm brand new to message boards, so please bear with me. I'm 32, but for all intents and purposes, I might as well be 80 when it comes to this stuff. I don't know how to format posts or links, I don't understand a lot of message board slang or jargon, and abbreviations often go over my head. Brace yourself for a wordy first post (which I think might qualify as TLDR) (too long didn't read?); but I'll try to be concise.
Playing in a home campaign. We are gestalting. Please don't fuss, it was the best way for some of us to create the character concepts we wanted. We like rules as guidelines and framework, but this is definitely a roleplay/flavor focused crew. Anyway, I'm making a ratfolk character. For half of him I'm doing the ratfolk alchemist racial archetype (Plague Bringer). The other half is where I could use some help. I have a concept, but there isn't a specific class that jumps out with it. For a reference, if any of you remember the cartoon "Darkwing Duck", there were two villains. They were sisters. One was sort of an evil maid/cleaning lady, and the other was like a garbage woman. Their whole schtick was that the "clean" one would vacuum peoples money away, while the "dirty" one grimed people up and basically got them stuck in place. The whole clean/dirty, yin yang is the concept. I want to use spells that have a clean or dirty flavor. I DO NOT, want this to turn into a Prestidigitation thread. I know that that is basically the ultimate cleaning spell. I'm looking for other spells that fit the clean/dirty bill. Things like "gust of wind", "grease", "mudball", "aqueous orb", etc. This is where my lack of computer savvy bites me. I'm not having luck with searches on my own. It's theoretically possible that this is a new concept, but far more likely that I just haven't found the right threads yet. So, any ideas, suggestions, links, or comments would be appreciated. I don't want to have to try and re-invent the wheel. Thanks in advance.
Is your character also a villain?
If so, Alchemist [Plague Bringer], Gestalted to Wizard [Necromancer] Might be a fun combination for you in abilities. People Die from Disease to come back as the walking dead.
As for the Cleaning/Dirty Spells
Your right this is an amusing concept that I've dabbled a bit into.
Although for mine it was with a School of Illusionists that earned money as they learned.
But you could take an arcane bond to a set of clothing or mundane item. Going with the theme Butler or Maid Outfit could be turned into Wonderous Items of power (as well as the tools of the trade)
Spells By Level (core Book That could work for Butler/Maid Casters)
0Lv- Prestidigitation
1Lv- Grease
2LV- Summon Swarm, Web
3LV- Stinking Clouds, Major Image
4LV- Stone Shape
5LV- Telekinesis
6LV- Permanent Image, Veil
7LV- Teleport Object
8LV- Dimensional Lock
9LV- Time Stop
Other than Summon Monster Spells to create more dirty gooey effects I think these Core Spells could be a nice bit of fun for someone to create a mess or be a squeeky clean character. time Stop to give extra rounds of Cleaning or breaking things for example at high levels.
But Major Image to create truly terrifying messes (even adding a few supposed Dead bodies if need be)
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I won't spam my own thread, but replying to everyone, but thank you for being my first feed back. This character isn't a villain sadly, but I like the ideas. This group tends to be more 'classic' hero types. I am messing with disease, but more from a neutral/Druidic mindset. Disease is just a natural part of life. May even make him a bit of a philosopher. Something on the lines of "what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger". Basically, if we're all hunks of metal, than disease is nature's hammer. The forging isn't pleasant, but you come out as something stronger and more beautiful on the other side. And, yes, I know that analogy isn't perfect. That's the fun and failing of philosophy and metaphor.
Anyway, Wizard is one of my front runner classes, but I have a tendency to bog myself down with options. If I can get enough variety within the concept playing a spontaneous caster, that may help our game flow better. From the philosophy standpoint, the "pestilence" mystery of Oracle fits. But, I don't want to get so tied into the disease aspect that I cut off my clean/dirty options.
I know folks, my concepts sometimes lack focus. I tend to be a bit spread out. Thanks again for the help and feedback.
Not trying to game the system, or annoy anybody; but, is there a better forum to post this thread under? If so, how do I do that?
I get it just may be too niche of a question, or not that exciting for folks. I'm just hoping for a bit more feedback before my group gets together to build. Thanks either way folks.
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There is a pestilence bloodline for sorceress from the council of thieves AP: Link
Magic in pathfinder is very much geared towards murder and mayhem. There's very little that would be useful to daily life. I wrote up a maid npc (an arcane caster) for a home game, and had a hard time finding spells that weren't for combat, especially of higher level.
Ant haul, crafter's fortune, unseen servant, floating disk, make whole, locate object, and I pretty much ran out.
Thanks a bunch. Had looked at some of those; though my husband keeps trying to talk me out of ant haul. I like these, but you're right, the practical non-com spells are hard to come by. That's why I'm also looking for spells that may not have cleaning effects by RAW, but are reasonable by flavor and/or RAI. . . . yeah, I guess I do know a few of the abbreviations.
Also, the sorcerer is the other class I've strongly considered. Both it and the comparable Oracle Mystery have some powers I love, but then one or too that make the character a little too gross. I want him to basically "make a mess" in combat, then when the dust settles he gets real fastidious and there's a cleaning frenzy. Think of the scene from League of Extraordinary Gentlemen when Mina chows down on the guy holding a knife to her throat. One minute bloody mess, the next all coiffed and prim. Eventually he'll learn to do "clean" combat, and "dirty" utility; but he'll start/default the other way.
Sorry to self bump my own thread, but I've made some progress.
I think I've settled on the Oracle for this character, but I'm suffering a bit of buyers remorse. The concept is just a little too spread out for one character class.
So, new-ish, or clarifying question. Does anybody know any feats, traits, or other character build elements that can let me acquire a few spells known from the Sorcerer side of the pond? Ultimately my group probably won't care, but I like to at least try to fit into the rules.
Thanks again folks.
I'm not sure how much of your character is decided, but a few possibilities:
Is darkness and shadow a focus of the character? The shadow mystery has a revelation which lets you get assorted shadow spells (there doesn't seem to be a pestilence mystery). These include shadow conjuration/evocation/transmutation/enchantment, which can be used to mimic sorcerer spells of the matching school. Or if the sorc spells you wanted concerned darkness or shadow you can get those directly.
Do you worship a goddess of illusion and chaos? Sivanah's prestige class, the veiled illusionist, lets you snag a few illusion spells which gets you into shadow spells just like the above, or if you wanted sorc illusions again it gets those directly.
Do you worship a deity who drives mortals mad with its mere presence? The dreamed secrets feat may be made for you. Make sure you know lesser restoration so that you can cure the occasional wisdom damage.
There's a few other ways but those are IMO the best.
Thanks for the reply. But, not quite. The illusion slant on this was someone else's take on the idea. My character is mixing "clean/dirty" spells with a secondary (or possibly equal) theme of disease. The spells I'm choosing produce actual physical cleaning or grime effects. This will be coming from spells known choices. Disease comes from the class features chosen. I had things confused in a previous post. There is a Pestilence Bloodline for Sorcerers. The Oracle Mystery is Plague; and it's third party (something something Kobold games). Sorry to those talented developers.
What I'm hunting for at this point is some way to stay a Ratfolk; be a Plague Mystery Oracle; and pick up just a few spells from the sorcerer/wizard list. Doesn't all need to be at level one, but earlier is better. I know I've probably constrained myself too much. I'm just hoping there's some esoteric feat, Paizo or 3rd party that might fit the bill.
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Rock to Mud is definitely a dirtying spell. Mud to Rock might be a Cleaning Spell.
Animate Rope, maybe? Keep thing organized and/or chaotic.
Create Pit: nice to have something to sweep things into.
Can't deal with the filth anymore? Hydraulic Push.
Bleed, Stabilize
Purify Food/Drink
Create Water
Advanced Scurvy
Decompose or Restore corpse
Shadow conjuration or shadow transmutation will cover a number of such spells - shadow creates at least semi-real substances. Admittedly those aren't anywhere near level 1.
If that's not suitable, then you're getting into the more awkward or obscure means.
To get prestidigitation take the two-world magic trait.
The pathfinder savant PrC again isn't particularly low level but lets you add any spell to your spell list.
The use magic device skill and spells or wands let you access spells off your list - albeit with terrible save DCs, with a skill check required (which can be minmaxed to not be a problem by mid-levels) and with a gold cost. Wondrous items may allow use of spells without any skill check. These aren't exactly your spellcasting of course.
D&D 3.5 had bloodline feats which added one spell per spell level to your spell list. You'd need to homebrew one of those and get your GM to OK it to use this, I'm fairly sure there wasn't a dirt/cleaning bloodline.
Summoning spells can get you creatures with odd spell-like abilities like mephits. Or perhaps a mud elemental (for dirt) or a water elemental (for cleaning).
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avr wrote: Summoning spells can get you creatures with odd spell-like abilities like mephits. Or perhaps a mud elemental (for dirt) or a water elemental (for cleaning). Play a Catfolk. Summon 2 Mephits: Thing 1 & Thing 2.
You will be a character who creates epically big messes then cleans them up before the children's parents get home...
OH . . . MY . . . GOSH! Thank you both for those responses. Some great ideas, even if it does pull me back towards sorcerer a bit. Really fun spells.
Scott, that last idea made me belly laugh. Cat in the Hat; and more specifically Cat in the Hat Comes Back were two of my favorite childhood books. Just beautiful.
Sysryke wrote: OH . . . MY . . . GOSH! Thank you both for those responses. Some great ideas, even if it does pull me back towards sorcerer a bit. Really fun spells.
Scott, that last idea made me belly laugh. Cat in the Hat; and more specifically Cat in the Hat Comes Back were two of my favorite childhood books. Just beautiful.
Well then you also need Little Cat A, Little Cat B, Little Cat C... Maybe a Bag of Tricks but a Hat and only produces cats.
That reminds me, Hey Rocky!
Another idea one that will take a bit of work. At seventh get Leadership and with your GM's permission make a Ratling cohort. Ratlings are a race meant to work together. With one trait they can occupy and share the same space. Have the cohort be an arcane caster if you are going oracle. Although if you are going Oracle I'd recommend another race one where you get a racial bump to Charisma.
I appreciate the idea, but I'm one of those players who's seen leadership abused too much. I'm usually the guy playing with a familiar/companion/eidolon or some other pet. We're already gestalting in a medium to large size group (6 players at the moment). So, I'm trying to limit how much I bog down combat. I'm avoiding extra creatures or most summons this time around. But, truly, thanks for these ideas. Gives me extra ideas for down the road. Possibly some good NPC's too for if/when we meet any of my extended clan.
As for the race; Ratfolk is locked in. The character grew from the Plague Bringer archetype of Alchemist. That part hasn't changed. It's his other half that I'm trying to nail down. Everyone's input and efforts here are greatly appreciated. I think this is the first character I've come up with though where the concept just refuses to fully fit into the game's mechanics. I have to revise some. The core of what I want will still be there, but I need to trim the edges.
For dirty how about a water/earth elementalist wiz aka a mud mage that summons slimes and oozes.
For clean i'd go with a good aligned cleric of (concept) clean with domains of air, water, and mist.
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I happen to be playing an Ectoplasmic bloodline Sorcerer in a play-by-post and my starting concept was very similar; focusing on gooey, muddy, messy spells.
Bloodline ability is slinging an ectoplasmic ball of goo that acts as a tanglefoot bag (a "lesser" version that has a fairly quick expiration, 1d4 rounds) spells available at lower levels would be mudball, web bolt, adhesive spittle, adhesive blood, ectoplasmic snare, glue seal, grease, mud buddy, web shelter.
Another PC I played up to 8th level before the campaign ended was "Dag of the Dirt" a dwarf druid that focused his worship on elemental earth - dirt and stone. With a huge fear of water (could not swim and rolled around in dirt baths.) When it came time to deal with animals and plants, he'd insist he aint that kind of druid.
Love this. I think you are all pulling me back around to Sorcerer. My husband will be thrilled. Part of my problem was I'm just getting greedy. There are some very sweet revelations in the Oracle's Plague Mystery (Kobold Press btw; sorry for earlier mix up). If my character was purely focused of disease I'd definitely go this way. But disease is only half (a third?) of the story with this concept. The alchemist gives enough to that part. The sheer versatility of arcane magic and the sorcerer bloodlines better supports the clean and dirty ideas. Thanks folks.
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