I am a Green Knight Calvalier and I love my Greatsword and built up around it. Now I am lvl 9 and am looking at feats and thinking to go for Improved Crit Greatsword. Unsure if this is wise. I am high attack High Dmg low armor kind or Character (working on that lol)
Feats so far:
LVL Feat
1) Power Attack
3) Toughness
5) Shield Focus (buckler)
6) Unhindering shield
7) Chain Challenge
I have a few other things due to me being an Aasimar and class like Endurance and Die hard etc but just would like to know if it is a wasted feat to put it on a Greatsword. If it is do you have any other good suggestions? Thanks in advance
Thanks a ton Lelomenia and Cavall (horse in Catalan language hehe) Thanks for the suggestions. Much appreciated
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For a cavalier focusing on damage, it's probably better to get keen on the greatsword, then take Critical Focus at 9th and Bleeding Critical at 11th.
Mathematically, keen is about equal to an additional +1 enhancement bonus for DPR on a 19-20/x2 or 20/x3 weapon. It's fractionally better with Critical Focus, but the bleed effect from Bleeding Critical gives a nice boost.
DPR is better with a falchion or nodachi, even with the lower base weapon damage, because of the way critical hits scale with 18-20/x2 and 20/x4 weapons improving to 15-20/x2 and 19-20/x4 with Improved Critical or keen. If adding riders on a critical hit, it's better to go with the weapon with a wider critical range than a larger multiplier.
DPR is better with a falchion or nodachi ...
Just to clarify this, a Falchion (2d4+X, 18-20/×2) is better than a Greatsword (2d6+X, 19-20/×2) when X = 20 (or higher) and when you have Keen/Improved Critical ... if I'm remembering that right =P
Keen/Improved Critical can also be better if you're adding status effects on a crit - eg. Bleeding Critical, or if your group uses Crit-cards.
I did some calculations and it looks like Weapon Focus vs Improved Critical probably give basically the same damage (I got exactly the same damage), but Improved Critical will get slightly better over time. I also tried Furious Focus and that looked like it did the most damage to me. Of course since I don't actually know what your chance to hit or damage are, I could be way off.
Also if you're deciding between {1. Improved Critical and a +1 Enhancement bonus} vs {2. Weapon Focus and a Keen weapon} you're definitely better off taking option 1 - it's exactly the same but you get +1 damage.
Honestly, I'd probably grab the feat if there wasn't something you really wanted feats for. Getting the raw +1s on your weapon is much better than getting special abilities on it since it'll help you punch through Damage Reduction.
Presuming the goal is to increase damage, the suggestion to use Keen is actually a bad one - increasing the enhancement bonus by 1 is better for average damage (and that's without the DR penetration feature). As a feat, ImpCrit has the same cost as a +1 to attack rolls, but as a weapon enchantment, Keen has the same cost as +1 to both attack and damage rolls. Unless you either have something that triggers on crits (like a Swashbuckler's panache recovery), or have large amounts of critical bonus damage (like a Magus spellstriking with Shocking Grasp), Keen is not worth it. It's not like you have infinite money!
If you want to just spend a feat on increasing average damage with your greatsword, ImpCrit is indeed the best for you. That's more from lack of good competition than its own strength, though. I'm with Matt2VK that your will save might be more worthy of improvement.
It's fractionally better with Critical Focus, but the bleed effect from Bleeding Critical gives a nice boost.
Quite frankly, Critical Focus and Bleeding Critical are horrible for damage. Unless you let the target bleed for multiple round, even taking just Weapon Focus would be better than taking both of these feats!
Just to clarify this, a Falchion (2d4+X, 18-20/×2) is better than a Greatsword (2d6+X, 19-20/×2) when X = 20 (or higher) and when you have Keen/Improved Critical ... if I'm remembering that right =P
Not quite. The full formula for when two such weapons where one has a lower crit range but higher damage are equal is (20D+D*H)/(H-L)-D. H the crit range of the higher range weapon (1 for 20, 2 for 19-20, etc.), L the crit range of the higher range weapon, and D the damage average difference (e.g. 2 for comparing a 2d4 and a 2d6 weapon). For greatsword and falchion, that's (20*2+2*3)/(3-2)-2=44. That's the amount of noncritable damage you need for them to be equal, above that, the falchion is better, below, the greatsword is.
Your X would be that value minus the lower damage weapons's average damage, e.g. 44-5=39. Even with an active challenge, the Cavalier should be around 10 damage short of that. Note that ImpCrit changes that a lot, with X=(20*2+2*6)/(6-4)-2-5=19, which should be covered even without a challenge. So without ImpCrit, greatsword is better, with it, falchion wins.
I also tried Furious Focus and that looked like it did the most damage to me.
In my sample calculation, Furious Focus was on par with WFocus, and slightly behind ImpCrit.
Depending on party composition, some fellow PC could cast keen edge on your weapon. A duration of 10 minutes per level means you would have the buff most of the time. Technically you could also use a wand, but that's usually more expensive than the weapon special ability, and less reliable.
Further, it depends on the campaign / GM whether the weapon special ability is easily available. In some cases taking the feat is way more reliable - but then you have to deal with the risk that you will find a keen weapon afterwards...
Take Two handed Weapon Trick Decide what abilities from that you want and build toward them. you have (likely) take 10 on intimidate and lose the two hander bonuses to gain 5ft reach on an attack
I also tried Furious Focus and that looked like it did the most damage to me.In my sample calculation, Furious Focus was on par with WFocus, and slightly behind ImpCrit.
It probably depends what numbers were put in. I didn't add any Challange damage or anything, which probably improves the crit-damage.
An Alchemal Silver Earthbreaker does as much Damage as a regular one, but an Alchemal Silver Greatsword does less.
I totally didn't know bludgeoning weapons got around that reduced damage. You're blowin' my mind man!
I am not a super fan of Greatswords
Well, they are boring but practical: Good damage and solid crit behavior for little investment (martial weapon proficiency), but without any special abilities. I can totally see why many people move on to different weapons after a while, but greatsword has its place for new players or bread and butter concepts.
You made some good points about the earthbreaker, the weapon has a slight edge over the sword in average.
I am not a super fan of GreatswordsWell, they are boring but practical: Good damage and solid crit behavior for little investment (martial weapon proficiency), but without any special abilities. I can totally see why many people move on to different weapons after a while, but greatsword has its place for new players or bread and butter concepts.
You made some good points about the earthbreaker, the weapon has a slight edge over the sword in average.
Plus you can find 5 magical greatswords for every 1 magical earthbreaker in published content
If you can, why not keen and save a feat?
Never choose an option gold can buy anyways
It won't be an issue here, but in other cases you would take the feat because adding the property to the weapon will restrict other available options.
E.g. a magus, with the option to add +5 worth of bonuses and abilities does not want to add Keen as a weapon property as he will already be hitting the +10 maximum allowed enhancement equivalent.
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Depends on the game you play in. If it's a Monty Haul then you would never take the feat because you can get it for free because you're playing in a too much money game. If you're beggars in rags then you take the feat because you'll want to spend you precious coppers on straight +s. In a game where you are close to the suggested wealth by level, I would take the feat over keen. Your money is better spent elsewhere (and straight +s are better).
It probably depends what numbers were put in. I didn't add any Challange damage or anything, which probably improves the crit-damage.
Yes, I calculated with active Challenge, because I think what's better against tough enemies is more important than what's better against mooks.
You made some good points about the earthbreaker, the weapon has a slight edge over the sword in average.
Only for silver weapons. Otherwise, the two are exactly equal for average damage in theory, with the greatsowrd being a bit better thanks to a x3 crit producing more overkill damage.
I think more creatures have DR/Bludgeoning than DR/Slashing
By my monster list, DR/slashing is more common by about half. In my list combining monster and NPC entries, the two are about equal. I don't have staticstics on the frequency of enemies in APs/modules/scenarios, sadly.
Yeah, they are kind of midling weapons. The Split Blade Sword does as much Damage and is a 1 handed weapon, but Greatswords are Martial Weapons where the Split Blade Sword is an Exotic Weapon.
The Split Blade Sword also requires 15 dex, which most strength based characters don't have. Of course, the character has no reason to use a one-handed weapon, so I guess your talk about the SBS (and the Estoc) was more about your personal preference and had nothing to do with the character this thread is about?
The best exotic weapon would be Butchering Axe, although if spending just one feat, a Falchion with Improved Critical would actually beat that for average damage.
Another consideration for the Earth Breaker: in addition to the Silver option, you also have the Thunder and Fang option, making it possible to wield Earthbreaker and Shield (Klar).
Not only does this also require 15 dex, it takes up 3 feats plus Weapon Focus. Unhindering Shield does basically the same with two feats while also granting +1 AC.
Depends on the game you play in. If it's a Monty Haul then you would never take the feat because you can get it for free because you're playing in a too much money game.
Even then there's either a bunch of stuff you'd weant to buy before Keen (+5 weapon, maxed belt/cloak/ring/amulet/armor/shield, and likely some other goodies), or the game is so easy that it doesn't matter what you do.
Gms and adventure paths dont pull evenly from monster lists. dr/bashing is way more common in COMMONLY USED monsters Skeletal things are exceedingly popular...more popular than zombies IME
I did not intend for the OP's thread to get derailed into a discussion about comparing weapons
You may not intend it, but when you're posting about your personal preferences without any regard to whether they are applicable or make sense for the character in question, you are responsible for such a 'derail'. If you don't want the thread to be about other weapons, just don't talk about other weapons. It's that simple! This is a public board, other people will see and respond to your posts. You should not post something that you don't want people to respond to! People have a right to respond to your posts.
Unhindering Shieid would allow you to use a a shield with a Greatsword, and so it is a good suggestion for the OP.
This showcases what I was talking about: Apparently, you haven't even bothered to read the entire opening post, otherwise you would have seen that the OP's character already has that feat! Everyone else talks about the actual character that's the topic of this thread, but you don't, you talk about some hypothetical stuff. You talk about that crits (or the damage increase they bring) don't matter to you, when they clearly do to the OP. You talk about TWF, when the OP shows no interest in that. You talk about one-handed weapons when the OP's character doesn't benefit from them. You talk about options requiring Dex 15 when the OP's character very likely can't meet the prereqs.
I'm just relating my experience as someone who has been playing this game for more than 40 years.
"This game" exists just short of 11 years (just over 12 years with the playtest). Pathfinder is not D&D, what may apply to D&D doesn't necessarily apply to Pathfinder.
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All this divergent talk of exotic and difficult weapons, but no mention of the martial no-dachi? Mechanically superior to a falchion in every way and no more foreign than a split blade sword or butchering axe.
All this divergent talk of exotic and difficult weapons, but no mention of the martial no-dachi? Mechanically superior to a falchion in every way and no more foreign than a split blade sword or butchering axe.
Eh, Tian xa is a LOOOOOOOOT farther away than belkzen or qadira.
All this divergent talk of exotic and difficult weapons, but no mention of the martial no-dachi? Mechanically superior to a falchion in every way
Well, free proficiency with a falchion can make a difference for a half-orc or a Lamashtu cleric. And losing half a point of average damage might be worth it, if it allows to replace the moody d10 by a more reliable pair of d4s. After a few levels, this reliability loses relevance, sure - but this also applies to the half point.
All this divergent talk of exotic and difficult weapons, but no mention of the martial no-dachi? Mechanically superior to a falchion in every wayWell, free proficiency with a falchion can make a difference for a half-orc or a Lamashtu cleric. And losing half a point of average damage might be worth it, if it allows to replace the moody d10 by a more reliable pair of d4s. After a few levels, this reliability loses relevance, sure - but this also applies to the half point.
Yeah I'm a fan of rolling more dice.
I'm sure everyone agrees that 2d4 > 1d8, but I think 2d4 = 1d10 even though it averages as slightly less damage. There's nothing worse than getting that Crit only to roll minimum damage. Sure it's not a high chance with 2d10, but it's a much lower chance on 4d4. The chance of rolling 4 damage (minimum damage damage on 4d4) is ~0.39%, as opposed to the 6% chance that you'll roll 4 or lower damage on 2d10.
If I was going to take a dip to get wand access here I'd go forester archetype hunter. Sure you give up 1 bab, but always on animal focus has so much utility, and in addition to wand use you'd get a couple first level spells that could provide decent utility (assuming you have invested the smallest bit in wis).