Let's assume you can prepare one divine spell in a spell slot that is one level higher than normal (which is explicitly cast as a divine spell). You are level 5 so you already have 3rd-level slots. But the only divine spell you have is normally a first-Level spell.
Can you prepare a heightened version (heightened to 2nd level) of your first-level spell in one of your 3rd-level spell slots?
Do you count as being able to cast 2nd-level divine spells for the purpose of meeting prestige class prerequisites, because the heightened spell is a 2nd-level divine spell for all intents and purposes? (EDIT: don't confuse this with the equipment trick sunrod thing, which obviously doesn't work. The spell being cast actually uses up a 2nd-level equivalent slot here)
Relevant material:
Quote from the design team:
The design team does not consider a prerequisite or requirement of "ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells" to literally mean "ability to cast at least two or more 1st-level arcane spells."
Being able to cast one spell of that type and level meets the prerequisite or requirement (if the prerequisite or requirement was intended to mean "two or more," it would say that, or use language like "at least two").
Heighten Spell:
A heightened spell has a higher spell level than normal (up to a maximum of 9th level). Unlike other metamagic feats, Heighten Spell actually increases the effective level of the spell that it modifies. All effects dependent on spell level (such as saving throw DCs and ability to penetrate a lesser globe of invulnerability) are calculated according to the heightened level.
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We will need to know what is the actual ability, it text matter, but as a general rule if an ability allows you to cast a 1st level spell it means that you are limited to a f1st level spell slot.
As a general rule, shenanigans that allow you to get a prestige class earlier don't work. The Devs have regularly squashed them.
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*drinks*
I was referring to Faith Magic;
Select one spell granted by a domain belonging to the god you worship. This spell must be at least 2 levels lower than the highest-level wizard spell you can cast. When you first prepare your spells for the day, you can prepare this spell once, using a spell slot 1 level higher than the spell’s actual level. This is cast as a divine spell.
Since it doesn't forbid the use of Metamagic feats on the selected spell, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to heighten it to 2nd level and cast it from a 3rd-level slot.
EDIT: *drinks as well*
A heightened spell does NOT qualify as a higher level spell for prerequisites. You must have sufficient class levels in a casting class to use spell slots of the correct level to even heighten a spell to that level. If a heightened spell counted for prerequisites then a wizard would need only pick up heighten spell and suddenly they qualify as casting 9th level spells. Now said wizard may not need to actually know any 3rd level spells to qualify as being able to cast 3rd level spells, and can fill all their 3rd level slots with heightened spells, but the heightened spells are not what are qualifying them as having the ability to cast 3rd level spells. Put simply, you must meet the prerequisites prior to the use of heighten spell. If you are unable to do so then you lack the ability to even use a heightened spell of that level.
More on topic to faith magic and qualifying. If you get it at 5th level this picking up a 1st level divine spell, you only possess the ability to cast 1st level divine spells, nothing more. A heightened version is treated as higher level for all effects related to spell level. Prerequisites are NOT effects related to spell level. This means the DC is higher, the required CL to cast/ dispel is higher, spell penetration bonus is higher, and the odd +x per spell level bonus effects from feats/items/abilities are higher. Due to the way Faith Magic is worded, you can still use your Arcane casting ability to apply metamagic to your Faith magic spell, but it doesn’t increase your ability to cast divine spells. Basically look at Faith magic as more of a limited scope +1 spell level metamagic that turns one predetermined spell divine.
It is also worth noting that Faith Magic has little to no practical benefit when used to qualify for prerequisites for prestige classes as the casting improvements only apply to the class that was used to meet the prerequisites. So if you held any illusion of taking 1 level of cleric and using Faith Magic to qualify for Mystic Theurge, it doesn’t work... while it will qualify you, your divine spellcasting improvements would be applied to wizard but don’t stack with the arcane and thus are wasted since wizard has no divine spellcasting progression still.. It however can be useful for some feat prerequisites or the odd prC that improves general spellcasting yet requires divine (there are like 3 that do this)..
My answer hasn't changed since you asked this a couple of weeks ago.
Whoops sorry I forgot that. I'm running multiple character concepts at the same time right now because I'm bored and sometimes I forget I already asked a question. Maybe I should use my brain and employ the search function. Thanks for reminding me.
The problem with Avr’s answer in your other thread is that heighten does not infact qualify a 1st level spell as anything but a 1st level spell for prerequisites. Beyond that the whole idea of using Faith Magic to qualify for Mystic Theurge and then advancing spellcasting as a Cleric simply doesn’t work in Pathfinder. There is an official ruling in an FAQ that a casting prestige class can only advance the casting of the class used to qualify for it. In this case you only qualified via Wizard, your Cleric levels would have had zero contribution thus you would NOT advance your divine spellcasting as a cleric through Mystic Theurge.
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There is an official ruling in an FAQ that a casting prestige class can only advance the casting of the class used to qualify for it.
Could you please link the FAQ you're talking about? I can't find what you mentioned.
Mystic theurge contains the following rule, which strongly argues against the faq that I cannot find.
If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class or more than one divine spellcasting class before he became a mystic theurge, he must decide to which class he adds each level of mystic theurge for the purpose of determining spells per day.
What that is saying is if you had two divine spell casting classes when you became a mystic theurge you have to decide which if the two to advance, same if you had multiple arcane spellcasting classes, you can only advance one of each. It's not saying you can pick a new class to start advancing.
Right, but it isn't requiring me to advance the class that I used to qualify.
That's true, but that doesn't mean that the FAQ (if it exists) can't apply. You could have multiple qualified classes you just can only advance one of them.
True, would be a weird build, but I suppose still possible.
I suspect that rather than being a FAQ (I can't find it either) it's an informal post somewhere. Possibly by James Jacobs rather than a rules person at that.
Chell, if you can back up either of your arguments with quotes or links (or with other arguments which do not merely depend on your assertions) please do.
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As I already said in the other thread, there is an added problem: you get the benefits of a prestige class only as long as you have the prerequisites, and the prestige class can't fulfill the prerequisites.
So, even assuming that the heightened spell was fulfilling the prerequisite (it doesn't), as soon as you use it you lose all the prestige class features, besides hit points and skill points.
Essentially you become a 3 level mage with a few additionals hit points and skill points.
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As pointed out earlier, using heighten spell makes it no longer qualify for the ability and thus you wouldn't meet the requirements for Mystic Theurge anymore.
as soon as you use it you lose all the prestige class features, besides hit points and skill points.If they use all their arcane spell slots, do they also lose all their prestige class features?
Even after they cast all of them, they still have the ability to cast arcane spells (just not anymore for the day), and thus qualify still. Similarly they're still able to cast divine spells and thus still qualify.
The prerequisite is having the appropriate spell slot, it is irrelevant if they are empty or full. The trick the OP is trying to use is creating an appropriate spell slot by using heighten spell. But at that point, even if that was sufficient to fulfill the prerequisites (it isn't), the spell slot would exist only as long as it is used to memorize a divine spell. As soon as that divine spell isn't memorized that spell slot is a normal arcane spell slot and can't fulfill the prerequisite.