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The suspicion is it is some kind of future proof. By taking the half-elf heritage you gain low-light vision. Then taking elf atavism and selecting cavern elf, does grant darkvision.
It may be possible in the future to select elf atavism without actually taking the half-elf heritage. In which case you may not have low-light vision. Then if you take elf atavism, you would not gain darkvision because you don't have the prerequisite vision.
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Ancient Elf - I've seen the comment on the blog post saying it is not intended to be allowed. However, RAW, I don't see anything disallowing it (it doesn't even have an age requirement like Ancestral Longevity).
There are only two formats for Pathfinder: Organized Play, or Private Games.
For Organized Play, you cannot combine Half-elf with Ancient Elf.
For Private Games, talk to your GM.
The other combinations are allowed in PFS assuming all other conditions are met.
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Ancient Elf - I've seen the comment on the blog post saying it is not intended to be allowed. However, RAW, I don't see anything disallowing it (it doesn't even have an age requirement like Ancestral Longevity).There are only two formats for Pathfinder: Organized Play, or Private Games.
For Organized Play, you cannot combine Half-elf with Ancient Elf.
For Private Games, talk to your GM.
The other combinations are allowed in PFS assuming all other conditions are met.
From the PFS character option page: "[Updated Mar 05] The design and development teams have clarified that the ancient elf heritage (page 25) requires an elven lifespan (a feature that half-elves do not have) and thus cannot be selected by half-elves using the Elf Atavism feat (Core Rulebook 58), only by full elves. Clarifying text has been added to the errata for this book."
Now a home game can houserule it's allowed but it's been errata'd out officially.
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The suspicion is it is some kind of future proof. By taking the half-elf heritage you gain low-light vision. Then taking elf atavism and selecting cavern elf, does grant darkvision.
It may be possible in the future to select elf atavism without actually taking the half-elf heritage. In which case you may not have low-light vision. Then if you take elf atavism, you would not gain darkvision because you don't have the prerequisite vision.
This is actually already possible.
A Halfling could take Adopted Ancestry Half-Elf, and then take Elf Atavism. He would not have low-light vision.
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| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The suspicion is it is some kind of future proof. By taking the half-elf heritage you gain low-light vision. Then taking elf atavism and selecting cavern elf, does grant darkvision.
It may be possible in the future to select elf atavism without actually taking the half-elf heritage. In which case you may not have low-light vision. Then if you take elf atavism, you would not gain darkvision because you don't have the prerequisite vision.
This is actually already possible.
A Halfling could take Adopted Ancestry Half-Elf, and then take Elf Atavism. He would not have low-light vision.
Nope: Halflings can take Human or Elf, but not Half-Elf or Half-Orc as they are actually members of the Human ancestry with a specific heritage (Adopted Ancestry does not give you a heritage).
You can create a half-elf character by selecting the half-elf heritage at 1st level. This gives you access to elf and half-elf ancestry feats in addition to human ancestry feats.
You’re fully immersed in another ancestry’s culture and traditions, whether born into them, earned through rite of passage, or bonded through a deep friendship or romance. Choose a common ancestry. You can select ancestry feats from the ancestry you chose, in addition to your character’s own ancestry, as long as the ancestry feats don’t require any physiological feature that you lack, as determined by the GM.
The suspicion is it is some kind of future proof. By taking the half-elf heritage you gain low-light vision. Then taking elf atavism and selecting cavern elf, does grant darkvision.
It may be possible in the future to select elf atavism without actually taking the half-elf heritage. In which case you may not have low-light vision. Then if you take elf atavism, you would not gain darkvision because you don't have the prerequisite vision.
This is actually already possible.
A Halfling could take Adopted Ancestry Half-Elf, and then take Elf Atavism. He would not have low-light vision.
Nope: Halflings can take Human or Elf, but not Half-Elf or Half-Orc as they are actually members of the Human ancestry with a specific heritage (Adopted Ancestry does not give you a heritage).
You can create a half-elf character by selecting the half-elf heritage at 1st level. This gives you access to elf and half-elf ancestry feats in addition to human ancestry feats.You’re fully immersed in another ancestry’s culture and traditions, whether born into them, earned through rite of passage, or bonded through a deep friendship or romance. Choose a common ancestry. You can select ancestry feats from the ancestry you chose, in addition to your character’s own ancestry, as long as the ancestry feats don’t require any physiological feature that you lack, as determined by the GM.
I would agree with you, except that there are Half-Elf and Half-Orc Ancestry Feats. Note that these are not Human, Elf, or Orc Ancestry Feats that require a specific Heritage, they are Ancestry feats that require Half-Elf or Half-Orc Ancestry. Also the fact that you can be a non-Human half.
A Half Goblin Half-Elf would be able to take Half-Elf Ancestry Feats. That would not be possible if it were simply a Human Heritage.
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The suspicion is it is some kind of future proof. By taking the half-elf heritage you gain low-light vision. Then taking elf atavism and selecting cavern elf, does grant darkvision.
It may be possible in the future to select elf atavism without actually taking the half-elf heritage. In which case you may not have low-light vision. Then if you take elf atavism, you would not gain darkvision because you don't have the prerequisite vision.
This is actually already possible.
A Halfling could take Adopted Ancestry Half-Elf, and then take Elf Atavism. He would not have low-light vision.
Nope: Halflings can take Human or Elf, but not Half-Elf or Half-Orc as they are actually members of the Human ancestry with a specific heritage (Adopted Ancestry does not give you a heritage).
You can create a half-elf character by selecting the half-elf heritage at 1st level. This gives you access to elf and half-elf ancestry feats in addition to human ancestry feats.You’re fully immersed in another ancestry’s culture and traditions, whether born into them, earned through rite of passage, or bonded through a deep friendship or romance. Choose a common ancestry. You can select ancestry feats from the ancestry you chose, in addition to your character’s own ancestry, as long as the ancestry feats don’t require any physiological feature that you lack, as determined by the GM.I would agree with you, except that there are Half-Elf and Half-Orc Ancestry Feats. Note that these are not Human, Elf, or Orc Ancestry Feats that require a specific Heritage, they are Ancestry feats that require Half-Elf or Half-Orc Ancestry. Also the fact that you can be a non-Human half.
A Half Goblin Half-Elf would be able to take Half-Elf Ancestry Feats. That would not be possible if it...
Half-Elf is not an ancestry: It is a heritage that specifically '...gives you access to elf and half-elf ancestry feats in addition to human ancestry feats.'
If your GM allows a 'Half Goblin Half-Elf', it would have the Goblin ancestry and the Half-Elf heritage (as spelled out in the 'Other Halves' sidebar on page 55, which does not appear to be coming up in an archive search).
In no case can you take Adopted Ancestry(Half-Elf) to gain access to three additional sets of ancestry feats (human, elf, and half-elf).
Of course not. I never said that. You would only get access to the Half-Elf Ancestry Feats.
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That's not the first error AoN has ever had.
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Of course not. I never said that. You would only get access to the Half-Elf Ancestry Feats.
And if click on that 'ancestry', the page title clearly states 'Half-Elf (Human Heritage)' and that 'You can create a half-elf character by selecting the half-elf heritage at 1st level.'
I presume AoN listed them as an Ancestry because the site didn't want to clutter the Human Feats page with the numerous Half-Elf, Elf, and Half-Orc feats that are only available to these specific heritages (yes, heritage specific ancestry feats are normally included in the base Ancestry feat list, but these two heritages offer a lot more feats than any other heritage).
As it currently stands, the only way to take a feat with the 'Half-Elf' trait is to take the 'Half-Elf' heritage at character creation as either:
a Human or
a non-human, non-elf ancestry character with your GM's permission and a couple of rule tweaks around the base assumption that your are human.
But the halfling could not take Adopted Ancestry at first level, as they don't get general feats at level 1. And nobody can take Elf Atavism after level 1.The suspicion is it is some kind of future proof. By taking the half-elf heritage you gain low-light vision. Then taking elf atavism and selecting cavern elf, does grant darkvision.
It may be possible in the future to select elf atavism without actually taking the half-elf heritage. In which case you may not have low-light vision. Then if you take elf atavism, you would not gain darkvision because you don't have the prerequisite vision.
This is actually already possible.
A Halfling could take Adopted Ancestry Half-Elf, and then take Elf Atavism. He would not have low-light vision.
Special You can take this feat only at 1st level, and you can’t retrain out of this feat or into this feat.
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But the halfling could not take Adopted Ancestry at first level, as they don't get general feats at level 1. And nobody can take Elf Atavism after level 1.The suspicion is it is some kind of future proof. By taking the half-elf heritage you gain low-light vision. Then taking elf atavism and selecting cavern elf, does grant darkvision.
It may be possible in the future to select elf atavism without actually taking the half-elf heritage. In which case you may not have low-light vision. Then if you take elf atavism, you would not gain darkvision because you don't have the prerequisite vision.
This is actually already possible.
A Halfling could take Adopted Ancestry Half-Elf, and then take Elf Atavism. He would not have low-light vision.
Special You can take this feat only at 1st level, and you can’t retrain out of this feat or into this feat.
Deep Backgrounds, Table 4-6: Homeland
Result 15 "Add the Adopted Ancestry feat and the Lore skill related to your adopted ancestry (such as Dwarf Lore) to your background options. If you select this feat instead of a skill feat, you aren’t trained in a background skill."
But the halfling could not take Adopted Ancestry at first level, as they don't get general feats at level 1. And nobody can take Elf Atavism after level 1.The suspicion is it is some kind of future proof. By taking the half-elf heritage you gain low-light vision. Then taking elf atavism and selecting cavern elf, does grant darkvision.
It may be possible in the future to select elf atavism without actually taking the half-elf heritage. In which case you may not have low-light vision. Then if you take elf atavism, you would not gain darkvision because you don't have the prerequisite vision.
This is actually already possible.
A Halfling could take Adopted Ancestry Half-Elf, and then take Elf Atavism. He would not have low-light vision.
Special You can take this feat only at 1st level, and you can’t retrain out of this feat or into this feat.
Well that is true. Good point.
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Ancient Elf - I've seen the comment on the blog post saying it is not intended to be allowed. However, RAW, I don't see anything disallowing it (it doesn't even have an age requirement like Ancestral Longevity).There are only two formats for Pathfinder: Organized Play, or Private Games.
For Organized Play, you cannot combine Half-elf with Ancient Elf.
For Private Games, talk to your GM.
The other combinations are allowed in PFS assuming all other conditions are met.
From the PFS character option page: "[Updated Mar 05] The design and development teams have clarified that the ancient elf heritage (page 25) requires an elven lifespan (a feature that half-elves do not have) and thus cannot be selected by half-elves using the Elf Atavism feat (Core Rulebook 58), only by full elves. Clarifying text has been added to the errata for this book."
Now a home game can houserule it's allowed but it's been errata'd out officially.
A petty, appalling travesty. Do they not know their source material!?
Elrond Half-elven, Lord of Rivendell. The most famous of half elves.
He lived for several thousands of years and surely would qualify for Ancestral Longevity.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Ancient Elf - I've seen the comment on the blog post saying it is not intended to be allowed. However, RAW, I don't see anything disallowing it (it doesn't even have an age requirement like Ancestral Longevity).There are only two formats for Pathfinder: Organized Play, or Private Games.
For Organized Play, you cannot combine Half-elf with Ancient Elf.
For Private Games, talk to your GM.
The other combinations are allowed in PFS assuming all other conditions are met.
From the PFS character option page: "[Updated Mar 05] The design and development teams have clarified that the ancient elf heritage (page 25) requires an elven lifespan (a feature that half-elves do not have) and thus cannot be selected by half-elves using the Elf Atavism feat (Core Rulebook 58), only by full elves. Clarifying text has been added to the errata for this book."
Now a home game can houserule it's allowed but it's been errata'd out officially.
A petty, appalling travesty. Do they not know their source material!?
Elrond Half-elven, Lord of Rivendell. The most famous of half elves.
He lived for several thousands of years and surely would qualify for Ancestral Longevity.
To be picky, Tolkien's half-elves had to choose between being counted as human or elven. It's unknown what his natural lifespan would have been.
I mean, Tolkien's elves were supposed to be just better than humans in a way that TTRPG elves were never intended to be.
Like Pathfinder's elves don't really live longer than 600 years, which is a long time but nowhere near Tolkien (Wasn't Elrond like 6000 years old?)
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To be picky, Tolkien's half-elves had to choose between being counted as human or elven. It's unknown what his natural lifespan would have been.
Elrond was fairly young when he made his choice, but his children lived through most of the Third Age (in other words, thousands of years) before they had to make the same choice.
And even Elrond's brother Elros (who chose to be human) lived for several centuries.
In other words, I wouldn't use Tolkien's works as a guide to the lifespans of Pathfinder elves, half-elves, or humans.
To be picky, Tolkien's half-elves had to choose between being counted as human or elven. It's unknown what his natural lifespan would have been.Elrond was fairly young when he made his choice, but his children lived through most of the Third Age (in other words, thousands of years) before they had to make the same choice.
And even Elrond's brother Elros (who chose to be human) lived for several centuries.
In other words, I wouldn't use Tolkien's works as a guide to the lifespans of Pathfinder elves, half-elves, or humans.
That was my point.