Getting two complete sets of spells in a 'day' by sleeping twice?


Rules Questions


The use of 'daily limit' has me a bit unsure...

Can a party rest for 8 hours twice in the same day (24 hour period) so that casters can refresh their spells twice? Or is there a hard limit on this? So that no matter how much sleep happens (or nap stack etc), there is always only 1 set of spells per day?


Well, its interesting. When you are talking about Divine Spells the answer is a very clear once per day. Not only does it clearly say "Spells Per Day" in the column where the number of spells per day is described in the class table, but the rules for Divine spells clearly state that the caster gets one opportunity to prepare spells or refresh their daily amount at the same time each day. For divine casters, rest has nothing to do with them refreshing their spell casting ability.

It is less clear for Arcane casters. If you want to ignore the part under every class that very clearly says "Spells Per Day" and you look through the rules for magic and rest...there is nothing to prevent you from resting for 8 hours and preparing your full daily allotment of spells again.

But again, the table under every casting class says spells per day. I think maybe that should be taken very literally.


I don't remember seeing a rule that you can't for most casters, but a few other rules made me decide that it isn't intended, and I made it a concrete house rule in my games for another reason.

Clerics and several other casters must choose a specific time to regain spells, so allowing other casters to do so would be a bit unfair IMO.

Resting to regain health doesn't work any 8 hours of the day. If you want to heal more you have to choose the entire day instead of another 8 hrs. For that similar reason id expect you can only choose to rest once in a day, so only regain spells once.

And a reason I made it concrete, I some times had players that just woke up from rest, go 5-15 minutes in a dungeon using a bunch of spells, then decide to go sleep for another 8 hours.


It is my understanding that you can't renew your spells more than once a day.

The ring of sustenance allows you to get a full night's sleep in 2 hours, and allows you to prepare spells after only 2 hours of rest. Despite this, it also mentions that you can't get spells more than once a day using this ring.


The answer is NO.

Spell Slots: The various character class tables show how many spells of each level a character can cast per day. These openings for daily spells are called spell slots. A spellcaster always has the option to fill a higher-level spell slot with a lower-level spell. A spellcaster who lacks a high enough ability score to cast spells that would otherwise be his due still gets the slots but must fill them with spells of lower levels.

The bolded part is pretty clear that it is a daily limit. If you are a arcane prepared caster you may be able to change the unused spells by going through the full spell preparation again. That part is a little more ambiguous.

When preparing spells for the day, a wizard can leave some of these spell slots open. Later during that day, he can repeat the preparation process as often as he likes, time and circumstances permitting. During these extra sessions of preparation, the wizard can fill these unused spell slots. He cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because he has cast a spell in the meantime. That sort of preparation requires a mind fresh from rest. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if the wizard prepares more than one-quarter of his spells


I believe party could technically not use any spells on day 1, start adventuring early/without resting on day 2, use up their available spells, rest/recover spells, and then burn through a second set of spells later in day 2.


Joe Mamma wrote:
I believe party could technically not use any spells on day 1, start adventuring early/without resting on day 2, use up their available spells, rest/recover spells, and then burn through a second set of spells later in day 2.

if they are all arcane spellcasters... this might be possible, though most sane DMs would say no. If any of them are divine however, they have to keep to a set time for their prayers, rituals, etc... to regain their spells.


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CRB magic chapter under "Preparing Wizard Spells" has this to say:

"Recent Casting Limit/Rest Interruptions: If a wizard has cast spells recently, the drain on his resources reduces his capacity to prepare new spells. When he prepares spells for the coming day, all the spells he has cast within the last 8 hours count against his daily limit"


Joe Mamma wrote:
I believe party could technically not use any spells on day 1, start adventuring early/without resting on day 2, use up their available spells, rest/recover spells, and then burn through a second set of spells later in day 2.

Divine casters are required to set a time when their spells refresh. They don't get to change that time.

What you're talking about should technically work for Arcane and Psychic casters, but to keep it simple I wouldn't allow it.


Multiple places state that the number of spells that a caster can cast has a daily limit. It does not matter how long or short the preparation time is a caster cannot exceed this limit unless a power specifically allows it. The only thing that I know of that does allow it is the 3rd tier mythic recuperation.


no, yes, no...

so a regular wizard gets N spell slots of M spell levels (see your chart) per day.
He can leave some slots open or unmemorized. Later in the day he can memorize specific spells (out of his books or via access by class abilities/feats) in these open slots at the cost of some study time. This is how a wizard without metamagics or feats accesses variability. That study time is key (and there is a feat to shorten it) as your party has to wait on you, and you don't have a full compliment of memorized spells in an ambush/surprise situation. Also the wizard needs enough slots to make this a viable plan (as he will need some basic spells every day), so we are talking 5th level and above.
Advice:
Anyway you can get extra spell slots is a WINNER and bonded object amulet is probably the way to go. Ring of Wizardry is also a very expensive classic. Pearls of Power allow you to recall a cast spell and they're relatively cheap at first Spell Level.

There are a few ways to get multiple sets of spells per day using very high level magics and oddball effects. It also depends on what monsters your GM uses (or makes available as spell targets). It is a fantasy game after all...


Open slots also works for clerics.

The spell Nap Stack is the only way I know to bypass the 1/day limit, and you can use it only 1/week.

/cevah


Thanks for all the answers, very informative!

Nap stack only seems useful for classes that need 8 hours of sleep to get spells back. Clerics seem unaffected. Which is a bit odd but the spell has many other benefits.

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