Divine bloodlines?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


So, there was a game I played a long time ago (not homebrew) that had divinity in bloodlines.

I tried googling it but keep getting sorcerer stuffs, im not looking for the sorcerer stuffs.

it MAY be 3.5, but im pretty sure its pathfinder.

the thing I remember the best is that the story for it is there's a great battle of man vs god and man wins, when the god(s) are struck down their divine energy pulses out and infuses with the people that killed the god... this passes through their bloodlines and can be stolen from each other as well.

Anyone know what im talking about? please point me in the right direction


Doesn't sound like Pathfinder.

Pathfinder has a whole thing about a dead god - ARODEN.

Having mortals killing gods wouod be a big thing in PF.

That said if someone else knows this feel free to chip in.


Sounds like Birthright the D&D campaign setting


That would be the Birthright Campaign setting...

http://www.birthright.net/forums/showwiki.php

Originally a 2.0 campaign setting... Still played by some:

https://paizo.com/campaigns/RuinsOfEmpire


Demigods often have stats and theoretically can be killed by mortals, if you are not intent on having mortals able to eliminate the most powerful deities.

Scarab Sages

David knott 242 wrote:


Demigods often have stats and theoretically can be killed by mortals, if you are not intent on having mortals able to eliminate the most powerful deities.

There are demigods in pathfinder? I thought it went mortal, mythic, god?


Yes, you can find stats for empyreal lords, great old ones etc.

Scarab Sages

I'm not sure I'd consider them demigods powerful beings yes but not demigods. Still I guess that's just personal choice.


Great Cthulhu will be made aware of your disrespect when R'lyeh rises.


Senko wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:


Demigods often have stats and theoretically can be killed by mortals, if you are not intent on having mortals able to eliminate the most powerful deities.
There are demigods in pathfinder? I thought it went mortal, mythic, god?

Deities are split into categories according to their Divine Power :

* (True/Full) Deities - these grant five Domains.
* Demigods - these grant four Domains.
* Quasi Deities - these grant one to four Domains, (and inc. Mythic Characters with Divine Source).

Scarab Sages

BENSLAYER wrote:
Senko wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:


Demigods often have stats and theoretically can be killed by mortals, if you are not intent on having mortals able to eliminate the most powerful deities.
There are demigods in pathfinder? I thought it went mortal, mythic, god?

Deities are split into categories according to their Divine Power :

* (True/Full) Deities - these grant five Domains.
* Demigods - these grant four Domains.
* Quasi Deities - these grant one to four Domains, (and inc. Mythic Characters with Divine Source).

I've not read that book. Interesting so would someone like Baba Yaga CR 30 be a demigod, a quasi deity or neither?

I'd also like to get ahold of some of her special abiltiies.


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From memory Baba Yaga is powerful enough that she could be a deity if she wanted to, but has no aspirations in that direction. She is simply an extremely powerful mythic being.

BABA YAGA (Note, if you're playing Reign of Winter don't read this)


I'd imagine once they started worshipping you, you get diefied whether you like it or not (insert: "guys, im not your god" *worshipping intensifies as they are praised for being humble* meme)

If yes, id absolutely say baba yaga is a diety.

*edit: I actually found a thing that says that is absolutely a thing. there are even aboliths and ideas that become dieties because they are worshipped.

Scarab Sages

Shinoskay wrote:

I'd imagine once they started worshipping you, you get diefied whether you like it or not (insert: "guys, im not your god" *worshipping intensifies as they are praised for being humble* meme)

If yes, id absolutely say baba yaga is a diety.

*edit: I actually found a thing that says that is absolutely a thing. there are even aboliths and ideas that become dieties because they are worshipped.

Interesting i did think some of the CR boosts and abilities she gets feel like they were intended to push her from mythic to demigod with the plane she controls being the inside of her hut.


Shinoskay wrote:

I'd imagine once they started worshipping you, you get diefied whether you like it or not (insert: "guys, im not your god" *worshipping intensifies as they are praised for being humble* meme)

If yes, id absolutely say baba yaga is a diety.

*edit: I actually found a thing that says that is absolutely a thing. there are even aboliths and ideas that become dieties because they are worshipped.

The issue there is that deities are not powered or sustained by worship.


Yeah it's a good idea, but that's not how deities work in the Pathfinder universe.

HERE'S HOW I KNOW.


Baba Yaga's hut is full of souls.

*also your counter claim example does not prove anything.


It proves that millions of people worshiping you as a deity does not make you a deity on Golarion. Even if you really, really want to become a deity.


one example does not prove a whole theory. no.

baba yaga's hut is full of souls.


Here are the Paizo official deities who are ascended mortals.

IRORI

ARODEN

IOMEDAE

NORGORBER

CAYDEN CAILEAN

Aside from Irori, all of them ascended through the power of THE STARSTONE (Although Aroden possibly could have ascended anyway).

Irori obtained deific status through self perfection, I think this predates Golarion history (also apparently his nephew GRUHASTHA also obtained deific status, so add that one to the list).

There are worlds where worship is enough to grant deific power (eg. Terry Pratchett's Discworld), but Gooarion isn't one if them. However I believe you're correct that Baba Yaga is powerful enough to become a deity if she wished to be one (although I can't remember where I read that now).


People become gods writing a book, like it just happens. per the wikis.

Something about them just ascends, like reaching a state of enlightenment.

So not only is baba yaga's hut full of souls but she just becomes so fulfilled in her solitude, she gains such profound revelational growth in her self reflective silence and reclusiveness, that she just is a god.

I can just imagine her making tea, grumbling, as she swipes away a wisp of soul from the cup as if wiping away a cobweb. going over, sitting on her chair, and silently enjoying the bliss of a good cup of tea. so good, in fact, that its divine.


Shinoskay wrote:
People become gods writing a book, like it just happens. per the wikis.

Achieving enlightenment through perfection of form (either meditation, martial arts, writing, or any discipline) isn't something that "just happens". Although Irori and Gruhastha are fictional characters invented by Paizo, they pay homage to a real world religion. I'm in no way an expert on said religion, but Baba Yaga seems to me to be about as far from an enlightened being as one can get.

I feel like this particular discussion can only lead to the thread being locked (or at least the relevant posts being deleted), so let's agree to disagree and leave it at that.


There's one AP where a PC could potentially be the child of a god. It has a horrible execution and is completely and utterly pointless.

That AP is:
Wrath of the Righteous. The reveal is literally in a side bar and explicitly does absolutely nothing. It's never mentioned again, even when the party meets a god there's absolutely nothing mentioned on how to change the encounter if one or more of the PCs have her as their mom

Scarab Sages

deuxhero wrote:

There's one AP where a PC could potentially be the child of a god. It has a horrible execution and is completely and utterly pointless.

** spoiler omitted **

To be fair thats sort of the thing you can't provide guidance on in an AP with a word limit. The number of possibilities depending on divine parent, character race/class/outlook, whether they want to be half god, quarter god, what their relationship with the parent is. Anything they did short of a book solely on part deities would be insufficient so i think its better to leave that entirely to GMs to handle as they know their players much better.


MrCharisma wrote:
Shinoskay wrote:
People become gods writing a book, like it just happens. per the wikis.

Achieving enlightenment through perfection of form (either meditation, martial arts, writing, or any discipline) isn't something that "just happens". Although Irori and Gruhastha are fictional characters invented by Paizo, they pay homage to a real world religion. I'm in no way an expert on said religion, but Baba Yaga seems to me to be about as far from an enlightened being as one can get.

I feel like this particular discussion can only lead to the thread being locked (or at least the relevant posts being deleted), so let's agree to disagree and leave it at that.

I'll take it, the thread already served its purpose and then some anyways. Good day to you.


So, this ran its course... but I just found some new information relevant to what was discussed here.

Quasi dieties:
https://aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?Name=Quasi%20Deity&Category=Divine%20Powe r

references the divinity mythic path Divine source (there is also seat of power).

While, effectively, you arent a diety... you can become a quasi diety (this is likely what Razmir is).

So, one can at least choose to become a quasi diety, for whatever thats worth


If Razmir could grant divine spells his "priests" wouldn't need the charlatanism they currently do, and his domains would be listed.

Note: that is RAW, canon, the idea that Razmir is actually quasi-divine isn't ridiculous and could easily be fit in to a home game.


Razmir is a level 19 wizard, at least according to Inner Sea Magic. To be fair, the book was released ~2 years before Mythic Adventures. There is no more current information in the Wiki, at least.

And IMO: The more mundane he actually is, the more interesting it becomes that he maintains his big scheme. It would be quite a letdown if some day some heroes would manage to uncover... that he is actually very close to a god.

Scarab Sages

I do find it interesting the difference between powerful being (mythic rules + some templates) and demigod is literally the ability to slowly shape your realm by will alone. I'm a CR 36 mythic archmage who grants 4 domains and clerical spells to my followers = wizard, I'm a CR 36 mythic archmage who grants 4 domains and clerical spells to my followers + can shape my own private planar demense by will alone = demigod.


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The best thing would be if it was uncovered that Razmir is actually a rogue faking his wizard powers with magic items and rogue talents.


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No there is no Razmir. His 2nd in command is an illusionist faking the whole thing (or a rogue with a Staff of Illusions, that idea does fit perfectly).


Nah. He's actually a warlock who never converted to these newfangled Pathfinder rules.

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