Shapechange SLA and Ring of Continuation


Rules Questions


Do those two work together?

In general: Does using an SLA count as casting a spell for the purpose of items, feats and abilities that do not refer to properties that are exclusive to actual spells (like spell level)?

For example, you cannot use metamagic rods on SLAs, because metamagic feats refer to spell level, which is not defined for SLAs.

A ring of continuation on the other hand only refers to the parameters "range" and "duration", which can be satisfied just as well by a spell-like ability.

I appreciate your input.


While SLA act like spells in many ways, they specifically are not spells. This is why SLA do not count as casting a spell or being able to cast a spell for purposes of abilities and pre-requisites. SLA do have a spell level and a caster level. Caster level equals the creature's HD and spell level is (unless otherwise specified) the same as it would be for a wizard, cleric, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger, in that order (if it doesn't appear on an earlier spell list).

The reason you can't apply metamagic is because SLA do not have any associated spell slots. Since metamagic can not normally be applied to SLA you can not use a metamagic rod on them either.

A ring of continuation is triggered when you cast a spell. Because SLA do not count as casting a spell they do not trigger nor work with the ring.


LordKailas wrote:
While SLA act like spells in many ways, they specifically are not spells.

Except when they are


willuwontu wrote:
LordKailas wrote:
While SLA act like spells in many ways, they specifically are not spells.
Except when they are

Augment Summoning was intended as a feat that summoners could take, but the wording didn't properly reflect that, hence the FAQ. Spell Focus doesn't state if it does or doesn't work with SP abilities, but the example you linked seems to calculate things as if this were the case. Though, sometimes feats get improperly applied to creatures. While not definitive it absolutely provides a strong case for Spell Focus applying to applicable SP abilities. As for tatooed sorcerer, I'm not sure why you linked it since it seems to agree with my original statement by calling out that varisan tattoo doesn't apply to the tattooed sorcerers SP ability.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
willuwontu wrote:
LordKailas wrote:
While SLA act like spells in many ways, they specifically are not spells.
Except when they are

SLA stands for Spell Like abilities. Spell like abilities, not Spell abilities.

If something says that it works with spells and there isn't something that says that it works with SLA, it doesn't work with SLA.

FAQ wrote:

Items as Spells: Does using a potion, scroll, staff, or wand count as "casting a spell" for purposes of feats and special abilities like Augment Summoning, Spell Focus, an evoker's ability to do extra damage with evocation spells, bloodline abilities, and so on?

No. Unless they specifically state otherwise, feats and abilities that modify spells you cast only affect actual spellcasting, not using magic items that emulate spellcasting or work like spellcasting.


Diego Rossi wrote:

SLA stands for Spell Like abilities. Spell like abilities, not Spell abilities.

If something says that it works with spells and there isn't something that says that it works with SLA, it doesn't work with SLA.

Well there IS the precedent of SLAs counting as being able to cast the corresponding spell (and only the corresponding spell) for the purpose of qualifying for Feats and Prestige Classes.

Also there is THIS (albeit relatively old) dev post by O.K.C. Stevens that hasn't been ovverruled afaik and states that SLAs work with Spell Focus and Spell Penetration as well as Augment Summoning.

I find it to be a relatively gray area, that's why I asked the question :)


Dairfaron wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:

SLA stands for Spell Like abilities. Spell like abilities, not Spell abilities.

If something says that it works with spells and there isn't something that says that it works with SLA, it doesn't work with SLA.

Well there IS the precedent of SLAs counting as being able to cast the corresponding spell (and only the corresponding spell) for the purpose of qualifying for Feats and Prestige Classes.

Also there is THIS (albeit relatively old) dev post by O.K.C. Stevens that hasn't been ovverruled afaik and states that SLAs work with Spell Focus and Spell Penetration as well as Augment Summoning.

I find it to be a relatively gray area, that's why I asked the question :)

Yeah, this is kind of a grey area. However, it doesn't say anywhere in the Ring of Continuation description that it affects SLA's, but it does specify that it affects Spells with 10min/lvl durations and a range of Personal. I don't know of any rule that allows items that affect spells to automatically affect SLA's. So unless you can find a rule that says that, I'm going to say no.


LordKailas wrote:
willuwontu wrote:
LordKailas wrote:
While SLA act like spells in many ways, they specifically are not spells.
Except when they are
Augment Summoning was intended as a feat that summoners could take, but the wording didn't properly reflect that, hence the FAQ. Spell Focus doesn't state if it does or doesn't work with SP abilities, but the example you linked seems to calculate things as if this were the case. Though, sometimes feats get improperly applied to creatures. While not definitive it absolutely provides a strong case for Spell Focus applying to applicable SP abilities. As for tatooed sorcerer, I'm not sure why you linked it since it seems to agree with my original statement by calling out that varisan tattoo doesn't apply to the tattooed sorcerers SP ability.

1) Sets precedent for the idea that SLAs are affected by things that affect spells.

2-3) And spell focus only applies to spells. If it applies to spell-like abilities, that suggests that the fact that SLAs work exactly like a spell of that name with specific exceptions means that things apply to them as if they were a spell. For instance, allowing Dimensional Dervish to work with SLAs of Dimension Door for things other than qualifying for the pre-req.

4) Note that it has to call out that it doesn't apply to SLA's. This suggests the idea that it needs to say that so that the SLA is not affected.

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