Dairfaron's page

Thanks for the suggestions. On top of that I found out that Ultimate Wilderness added "Receive Spell" as a DC 25 Handle Animal training option, so it isn't just restricted to air walk.

Also I found out that lesser wings of flying require the physical push of a button to work (no command word or anything), so that might be a good RAW way to achieve flight.

I'm trying to get my Samurai Wolf Mount a way to attack aerial targets in melee (being able to charge would be optimal).

Sadly, most items that grant a fly speed need to be activated by the creature that wears them and ACs can't do that.

There is ointment of flying, but that's 2k gold a pop.

Any ideas?

So I think I found a satisfying answer for me. And it lies withing a rules paragraph that I didn't see quoted anywhere in all those threads about thrown weapons and spell combat.

The paragraph that is always cited is

"Melee weapons are used for making melee attacks, though some of them can be thrown as well. Ranged weapons are thrown weapons or projectile weapons that are not effective in melee."

Which leaves a lot of room for interpretation. But another paragraph from the CRB makes a lot clearer how this is intended:

"Weapons are grouped into several interlocking sets of categories. These categories pertain to what training is needed to become proficient in a weapon's use (simple, martial, or exotic), the weapon's usefulness either in close combat (melee) or at a distance (ranged, which includes both thrown and projectile weapons), its relative encumbrance (light, one-handed, or two-handed), and its size (Small, Medium, or Large)."

From a logical standpoint, any weapon that you throw is useful at a distance, otherwise you couldn't throw it in the first place. Which means that any weapon that is thrown (aka used at range) automatically becomes a thrown weapon (in game terms) and by extension a ranged weapon in the context of the attack you are making.

This becomes even more obvious as there is precedent for a difference between and thrown weapon and a weapon that is designed to be thrown (Spell Hurling special ability). So the two are destinctively different in that any weapon that is thrown is a thrown weapon in game terms, but a weapon designed to be thrown is a weapon that has a range increment listed in the table. If thrown weapons were only those with a listed range increment, there would be no need for a stronger restriction.

That being said, thrown weapons encompasses the set of weapons designed to be thrown, because spells like named bullet work on thrown weapons. Obviously you can't cast named bullet on a weapon that has already been thrown and became a thrown weapon through that.

That being said, I think I need to revise my opinion about thrown weapon not working with spell combat. They absolutely should.

By the way, referring to the Sharding special ability, there is precedent for a special ability giving you a ranged attack with a dedicated melee weapon and that's Arcing Weapon.

Also I might add, that if you key the weapon type off the attack type, then both Card Caster and Myrmidarch, while being more or less dedicated ranged archetypes, can't use spell combat with thrown weapons, because they don't alter Spell Combat. This sound kinda unintentional to me.

I was under the impression that Spell Combat only looks at the weapon table and any one-handed or light melee weapon is fair game. The reason why it doesn't work for thrown weapons, is that as soon a thrown weapon leaves your hand, you don't fulfill the prerequisite for spell combat anymore, because it requires you to wield a melee weapon. Sharding gets around that, because the weapon isn't thrown and doesn't have a range increment, but the duplicate is. Furthermore it calls out in the sharding ability that "The wielder of a sharding weapon can make a special ranged attack with the weapon in place of any melee attack." Strictly read, you would not attack with the duplicate, but with your melee weapon (which then uses the duplicate to bring the pain to the other dude).

That being said, if you go by the logic that the attack type automatically defines the weapon type, then of course it doesn't work.

The thing about a sharding weapon not working with PBS and the like automatically follows from my initial argument. If you treat it as a melee weapon, then obviously all feats that reference "ranged weapons" would not apply. It's just consequential.

EDIT: Weirdly enough, if you think it through, that means a sharding weapon could fire into melee without penalty, because the rule talks about ranged weapons. Something isn't quite right here lol

So I wanted to build a Puppetmaster Magus the other day, but getting into melee doesn't really fit the archetype's style IMHO. So figured I'd have a look at thrown weapons.

Now, regular thrown weapons obviously won't work (correct me if I'm wrong), because in terms of weapon classification, they are both melee and ranged and throwing them would make them count as a ranged weapon, which doesn't work with Spell Combat. For reference, Spell Combat never mentions melee attacks as the exact term, it only says "attacks made with your melee weapon."

But the Sharding Special Weapon Ability seems to work a little different:

This special ability can be placed only on melee or thrown weapons. The wielder of a sharding weapon can make a special ranged attack with the weapon in place of any melee attack. To do this, the wielder goes through the motion of throwing the weapon without releasing it. The weapon splits off a duplicate of itself that flies as if thrown by the wielder at the intended target. The duplicate gains a range increment of 10 feet for this purpose , but uses the same proficiency and otherwise functions the same as the original weapon. The duplicate vanishes after hitting or missing its target.

First bolded part: You make a ranged attack with your weapon. This is what thrown weapons do, so nothing new here. But the method how it is achieved is significantly different.

Second bolded part: In contrast to an actual thrown weapon, the original weapon doesn't actually get a range increment and doesn't leave your hand at all. Which makes it a melee weapon, or put differently, it doesn't make it a ranged or thrown weapon. The duplicate does however get a range increment for this special ranged attack.

This might all sound excessively nitpicky, but rules-wise ranged attacks and attacks with ranged weapons always have been treated differently.

Counting this as a weird corner case of a ranged attack being made with a melee weapon has a ton of implications, though. For example, you would be able to use Deadly Aim (ranged attack), but unable to utilize Point-Blank Shot (ranged weapon) and the whole shabam of typical ranged feats that follows.

What are your thoughts on this? RAW, I think it should work, but was that intended? At least on the Pathfinder Discord I had a bunch of people that said ask your GM /gray area and some who said Spell Combat should even work with regular thrown weapons, which I kind of didn't agree with but nvm.

Yes, mounted combat in pathfinder is a jumbled mess. Yes, that's exactly the reason why I'm making this thread. Yes, I hope to get a little more enlightenment from it than I got from using forum search and google-fu.

1) You and your mount all have their separate sets of actions. So your mount can move while you make a ranged full attack (at a penalty). Special: You only get to make a single melee attack if your mount moves more than 5 ft because you need to "wait for it to reach the enemy". If an enemy is in front of me, can I full-attack and let the mount run away after that?

2)Mounted Charging: If you charge, both you and the mount charge. So both of you charge as a full-round action.

2.1) I have coordinated charge and my ally charges. Now I would get to charge as an immediate action, but since my mount doesn't have the feat, I'd have to charge on foot, right?

2.2) I use a horsemaster's saddle to grant my mount the coordinated charge feat. Since now both me and my mount have the ability to charge as an immediate action under certain conditions, can I use the feat while mounted?

3) Pounce: You can make a full-attack at the end of a charge.
Can I just pounce at the end of a mounted charge or do I need Mounted Skirmisher to overcome the "single attack only if mount moves over 5 ft" rule?

4) Ride-By Attack: Charge + move after charge
Does it even work? You can use this set of actions on a charge, because you have the feat, but your mount doesn't. So your mount charges as a regular full-round action and has no movement left after reaching the target of your charge. So you'll have to take the second move on foot or what? Is there any way at all to move after a mounted charge? What about combining this with pounce?

5)Trick Riding says you can negate a hit as per Mounted Combat twice per round. But that's an immediate action. You only have one immediate action per round. How does this work at all?

6)If both me and my mount have the Escape Route teamwork feat, the both of us never provoke AOO from movement again since we move in each other's squares?

EDIT: 7) If you're medium sized and ride a large mount, do you threaten 5 ft around your mount's 10ft-square or do enemies have to be within your mount's squares to be threatened?

There are probably a lot more things unclear about mounted combat, but those were the ones that bothered me the most right now. Let me know if you stumble over other uncertainties.

I cannot of course charge/pounce, attack a single time, then take a move action.

Sure you can't, I agree with you 100%. My point was just that all abilities that somehow have to do with making a full-attack distinguish between the initial attack and additional attacks. Thus my conclusion being that pounce wouldn't replace the initial charge attack but grant extra attacks on top.

I'm sorry that it came across like it did.

@Derklord: I definitely get your point about not getting VS on a full-attack. Still, I'm not convinced that the full-attack from pounce replaces the single attack at the end of a charge instead of just adding to it, because it is just part of the charge and not a separate action to begin with.

Since all we can do is making educated guesses about possible RAI, I'll just ask my GM. The chance to ever get an official clarification for a 1E splatbooks feat is sadly zero.

Thanks for your input guys!

"Pounce (Ex)

When a creature with this special attack charges, it can make a full attack (including rake attacks if the creature also has the rake ability)."
I think we're all in agreeance that the full attack replaces the regular charge attack and isn't made in addition, right? It's not actually written, but no GM would rule otherwise.

Actually, with all due respect, I am not in agreeance, because of the way the Charge action and Full-Attack action are worded:

From Charge:

"Even if you have extra attacks, such as from having a high enough base attack bonus or from using multiple weapons, you only get to make one attack during a charge."

From Full Attack:

"If you get more than one attack per round [...], you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. [...] After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks."

So let's connect all of those statements to give an educated guess on what is happening during a pounce charge:

1) You take the charge action an thus get a single attack at the end of the charge.

2) You have Pounce, thus you can decide whether to let it be with that one attack or to make your additional attacks after you have made your first attack. Because you always get that one first attack, no matter what ability you have.

Why's that? IMHO, both Charge and Full-Attack separate your set of iterative attacks into one initial attack and a set of "extra" (Charge) or "additional" (Full-Attack) attacks.

On a normal Charge you only get to make that one initial attack, whereas Pounce "unlocks" additional attacks. The fact that you can still decide on making a full-attack after your initial attack succeeded/failed on a regular turn (no charge) in combination with the word "can" in the Pounce description leads me to believe that you can indeed decide to make a full-attack after making your initial charge attack. which would mean that you don't replace your charge attack with a full-attack, but rather unlock additional attacks after the first.

This would mean that Runic Charge may replace the initial charge attack with a touch attack, but you may still use your remaining iteratives afterwards.

EDIT: RAW, Runic Charge would give you a free spell + touch attack on top of your charge attack, because it says "as part of a charge action", a charge action is defined as giving you movement + attack and there is no text about replacing the normal chharge attack. It would only be fair to assume, though, that they meant you to cast the spell while charging and then slap it onto your opponent in place of the regular attack (which IMHO wouldn't prevent you to follow up with additional iteratives).

Hi guys!

While working on a new character I stumbled upon the feat Runic Charge:

As long as two of your hands are free, you can cast a spell with a range of touch and deliver the spell to a single target as part of a charge action. yadayadayada

Do I get the additional attacks from pounce while using Runic Charge?

The way I read it, it seems pretty obvious that you do, since it references the charge action, which is a game-mechanical term that explicitely allows pounce. But some guy over at r/Pathfinder_RPG made a pretty big fuss about it not working together based on how the feat text is structured.

Since I am not a native English speaker, it would be awesome if someone could clarify this for me.

The problem, as was pointed out, is that the material component is transformed into something different for the duration of the spell, but it isn't the first instance of a spell doing that. Fabricate (a Transmutation spell, BTW) does exactly that. The difference is that the result of Fabricate is a real object, while the result of Emblem of Greed is a temporary object that will disappear at the end of the spell.

Thanks for chiming in on the topic. Yes it seems weird, especially since the description text says that the weapon's normal properties are suppressed during the spell. Since material components are already used up at the point of casting, this sentence would make zero sense, unless it's a focus component instead.

Nice catch with the CMD, too!

Thank you guys for the the extensive replies :)

Basically I agree with you on all your points, but there are some things that are a bit iffy.

This particular spell has another major problem, one that ties into your question 4. The use of the word "you" in the spell.

RAW, the way the spell is worded, anyone can wield the glaive but only you (the caster) can benefit from the granted proficiency and increased BAB. I think it doesn's make that much sense, but it's not that broken and I can kinda live with it. Of course, you could hand the glaive to your party's fighter, but you would probably be better off by just casting Greater magic Weapon on their weapons.

The thing with the BAB only working on the Glaive is difficult, because BAB is a stat influencing the whole character. They would have been better off just writing "for attacks made with the Glaive" instead of "when wielding the Glaive" and maybe a short sentence about extra attacks from high BAB.

That being said, Arcane Anthology came out in 2015. Anything with natural attacks benefits from the increased BAB. This should have been super obvious during development. I think I will just go with RAW and try to not abuse it so my GM lets it fly :).

As an aside, anyone else find it strange, bordering on <deleted> that a spell clearly designed to emulate one of the Runelords (who were famously evil and secular) is freely available to all clerics? Huh?

Yes, I find that super weird as well. But it fits really well with arcane casters, especially with aspiring hellknights like my character.

Thanks again for your input guys!

Hello there!

First of all, this is not for the ridiculous Coven Caster shenanigans, but because I am genuinely interested in using the spell as an emergency option for my gish-ish caster, if things get messy.

So, let's read the spell again:

___________________
Emblem of Greed

School transmutation (polymorph); Level cleric 6, inquisitor 6, magus 6, medium 6, shaman 7, sorcerer/wizard 6

CASTING

Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a masterwork or magical melee weapon)

EFFECT

Range touch
Target 1 masterwork melee weapon touched
Duration 1 minute/level
Saving Throw none (object); Spell Resistance no

DESCRIPTION

You transform one melee weapon into a burning glaive. The target of your spell must be a masterwork or magical melee weapon appropriate to your size. The weapon becomes a glaive appropriate to your size and has a +1 enhancement bonus and the flaming weapon special ability. When wielding the glaive, you are considered proficient with it and use your caster level as your base attack bonus (which may give you multiple attacks). When you reach caster level 14th, the glaive gains the spell-storing weapon special ability. When you reach caster level 17th, it loses the flaming weapon special ability, and gains the flaming burst weapon special ability. The glaive’s enhancement bonus increases to +2 at caster level 15th, and +3 at caster level 19th.

If this spell is cast on a magic weapon, the powers of the spell supersede any that the weapon normally has, rendering the normal enhancement bonus and powers of the weapon inoperative for the duration of the spell. This spell is not cumulative with greater magic weapon or any other spell that might modify the weapon in any way. This spell does not work on artifacts. A masterwork weapon’s bonus on attack rolls does not stack with an enhancement bonus to attack.

___________________

Now I have 4 questions concerning the emboldened parts:

1) This spell is a polymorph spell tergeting my weapon. I'd like to polymorph myself into another creature as well, though. The rules for polymorph state "You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time." Emblem of Greed targets only my weapon, but the effect of the spell gives me a higher BAB. Does this mean that I am "affected" by the spell, too (not in a logical, but in a rules-wise way)? Do I get both polymorphs (me + weapon) or only one?

2)The weapon is listed as a material component, so it would be lost in the process, however the description states "If this spell is cast on a magic weapon, the powers of the spell supersede any that the weapon normally has, rendering the normal enhancement bonus and powers of the weapon inoperative for the duration of the spell. The emboldened part strongly implies that the weapon is not consumed in the process. This is contradictory. Any thoughts?

3)What does "Wielded" mean? IMHO there are 3 possible meanings:

a) It is sufficient to just hold it in one hand.

b) You have to hold it in a way so that you can attack with it and threaten squares with it.

c) You need to actually make attacks with it or at least somehow manage to get the dancing weapon property.

4) Does the increased BAB only count for attacks made with the glaive?

I have read a lot of threads on this spell (this board, but also reddit and discord) and opinions seem to be spread out a lot. But mostly people straight out refuse to discuss it, because they hate the spell in the first place. So hopefully, I can get some clarification with this.
Hopefully, I

I would definitelt buy adventures: APs, modules or scenarios

+1

I love barbarians. There was this guy who played a titan mauler and used body bludgeon to dual-wield people. It was absolutely hilarious.

I see "a class that grants him a ki pool" as one term. Which also makes Rogue (talents) not qualify.

Like I said, the prereq is weird. The wording is unclear and dysfunctional.
For comparison, there is only one feat prereq that asks for "levels in a class", and that's an NPC feat. All the other class features with such wording ask for a clear thing, e.g. "levels in Monk", or "levels in a spellcasting class". I don't get why the arcana can't just ask for the class feature like basically every other prereq.

Sorry for the late reply. RAW, Ki Arcana does absolutely nothing for a Magus as there is a typo in the original printing saying "arcana pool". It really seems to be badly written.

If all else fails, I can still take a level in Pathfinder Field Agent or Rose Warden and grab the Ki Pool rogue talent.

I always read the prereqs as "you need to have at least one level of a class that gives you a ki pool" where "that" in the relative clause refers to the level, not the class.

That being said, Ki Arcana is from 2013 and at this time you could only gain a Ki Pool by being a monk, Ninja or rogue with the Ki Pool talent (Perfest Style and that one dwarf racial trait came way later), so RAI, I would assume that it was meant as a multiclassing option. With this in mind, i guess my GM would let it fly as I am multiclassing.

Quote:

Ki Pool (Su): If a student of perfection has levels in a class that grants a ki pool, his student of perfection levels stack with his levels of that class to determine his total number of ki points. If the student of perfection has a ki pool from Perfect Style, he adds his Wisdom modifier to his ki pool. The student of perfection’s ki pool also gains ki strike as per the ki pool of a monk of a level equal to his class level. This stacks with his levels in monk (if any).

Probably not, unless you have perfect style.

Actually, perfect style alone should qualify you, though a pool with a size of 2 is nothing to write home about.

I was actually more worried about this specific part of Ki Arcana: "The magus must be at least 6th level and must have levels in a class that grants him a ki pool before selecting this arcana. "

Is Student of Perfection a class that grants a Ki Pool? I mean, it has the Ki Pool class feature and gives you ki strike and everything.

For a Magus of an appropriate level, does a single level of the Student of Perfection prestige class suffice as a prerequisite for using the Ki Arcana Magus Arcana?

Sorry I confused wands with scrolls. But I guess that doesn't hurt the point of my post.

The Greatsword Battler (aka Gorum's Swordmanship) divine fighting technique reads:

" If you have the Vital Strike feat, you can apply its effect to an attack you make with a greatsword at the end of a charge."

If I use pounce and use my first attack to make a sunder combat maneuver, can I make the Vital Strike from Greatsword Battler on one of the other attacks?

In the case of RAGELANCEPOUNCE, the dev's argument was that you only get the bonus damage on your first attack because of the momentum, so I assume a similar idea would be applicable here. But I have no idea how to deal with it in this case since sunder maneuvers are just attack rolls with extra steps.

The reason is, I want to Spell Sunder on the first attack and then Vital Strike Furious Finish on the second attack. But since Furious Finish ends your rage, you would need to spend an extra rage round for Spell Sunder..

@Dairfaron

Welp, it does give you the absolute worst save progression of them all and messes with your BAB for both d10 and d8 classes. The only real benefit (except the boons) is the Spiritual Form at level 10. Considering that the majority of boons aren't that good I'd say the Evangelist is in a good spot, balance-wise.

Any prepared 9th-level caster benefits a lot from the class, especially a wizard. You lose one spellcasting level, but that still leaves you on par with a sorcerer, who is one level late anyways. But what you get for it are 3 potentially really powerful Deific Boons (there is some crazy sh** out there), Spiritual Form, a minor but useful AC Bonus, and 4 extra skill ranks per level to put into your knowledge skills. Not to mention the higher hit dice, Perception as a class skill and a load of useful weapon and armor proficiencies.

A pretty neat package if you ask me.

The core problem seems to be that there is no clear statement about what requirement you have to fulfil in order to use a want.

The Wand description reads (as correctly quoted by LordKailas):

"Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. "

Meanwhile the Description under Use Magic Device Reads:

"Normally, to use a wand, you must have the wand’s spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. "

Okay, so for the most straightforward case those wordings don't contradict each other: If a regular Wizard uses a wand of a spell he can't cast YET, he has to emulate a higher caster level and that's it. Meaning that having the spell on your list and being able to cast it is generally regarded as identical.

Now in the case presented by jedi_pika that isn't all that obvious. Let's look as what the Spellslinger archetype reads:

"This ability replaces cantrips, but the spellslinger gains the detect magic and read magic cantrips and places them in his spellbook. He can cast either of these as 1st-level spells."

From the regular Wizard class:

"Cantrips

Wizards can prepare a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells, each day, as noted on Table: Wizard under “Spells per Day.” These spells are cast like any other spell, but they are not expended when cast and may be used again. A wizard can prepare a cantrip from an opposition school, but it uses up two of his available slots (see below)."

Seeing this, the core question of the argument boils down to the following question:

Does the Cantrip class feature only add slots for 0-level spells that are on your list anyway or does the wizard spell list not include 0-level spells per deafault and they are added to the spell list by the Cantrips class feature?

Since the Cantrips class feature doesn't say that it adds the spells to your list, I would assume that option 1 is correct and you could indeed use wands of cantrips without UMD on a spellslinger.

However, as Ferious Thune states, the way that two cantrips are "posthumously" added to your list of 1st-level spells suggests that the Spellslinger removes all 0-level spells from his class list.

That being said, ask your GM. The Spellslinger ( I have played one) is an extremely specific archetype that excels at one trick (massively increasing spell DCs and sometimes dealing 50% more damage on a nat20) while sacrificing A LOT of good stuff, not to mention the extra feats you will have to take to make your gunslinging effective when you run out of spells (and handle misfires). My GM thought it was stupid to lose cantrips and let me keep them, maybe you can persuade your GM to do the same.

Also, just fyi, some Obedience feats have access to the Evangelist/Exalted/Sentinel prestige classes in addition to their specific PRC. Those with Fey Obedience (and I think Monitor/Celestial) are allowed to replace the "Deific Obedience" requirement with their respective feat.

I also thought about going Evangelist first, but after doing that already in the last AP, I felt like Evangelist is actually not that cool. And that is, because it gives you way too much for what it costs. It basically gives you a load of new abilities (including a ginormous amount of skill ranks) in trade for one level of base class progression. IMHO it is just not well- designed, because it invalidates a lot of flavorful choices just by being so much better.

Feysworn on the other hand, is a super flavorful prestige class und fits nicely with our upcoming AP. We are starting Reign of Winter next week and I'm already super hyped about it.

Yes. Spell Trigger and Spell Completion items require that the spell is on your spell list. A spell slinger has no 0-level slots, but still has the spells on his list.

EDIT: From the Use Magic Device skill section:

"Normally, to use a wand, you must have the wand’s spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. "

So, if you take the Feysworn prestige class with obedience to the Lantern King, you'll get a shapechange SLA (10min/lvl duration) at prestige class level 9.

AfaIk, Spell-like abilities always counted as spells for everything that didn't refer to spell levels (that would exclude metamagic and prestige class access, for example).

Precedents for abilities working just well with SLAs include the Augment Summoning and Augment Calling feats, which just mention "spells" in their respective descriptions. Also, Spell Focus, Spell Penetration and their greater versions are generally believed to work on SLAs as well.

So would a ring of continuation trigger on the shapechange spell-like ability?

My first reaction would be yes, since the ring does not interfere with the casting of the spell (and also because of the reasons presented above). And also because of THIS THREAD.

But I may be wrong. Any opinions?

Just a quick reminder that the Ghost Rider phantom has the animal (phantom) type and not the usual outsider type.

A Viking Fighter trades armor training for a specialized shield training. Thus he has to take Shield Focus in order to be able to take Shield Mastery feats (because only armor mastery lets you skip the prerequisite). As an archetype specialized towards shields, this is kind of dumb.

Would you houserule treating shield defense as armor training for that particular purpose?

I don't want to be nitpicky, but the ability in question reads "When you use Cleave", not "When you use the Cleave feat".

Does that make a difference wording-wise?

Can you use Cleaving Smash on the attacks from Great Cleave?

Cleaving Smash only mentions the Cleave feat but then goes on to talk about "both your initial and your secondary attacks" which suggests it might also work with Great Cleave , since it is the only form of Cleave with multiple secondary attacks. Doesn't seem that clear to me.

Scorpion Style:

Benefit: To use this feat, you must make a single unarmed attack as a standard action. If this unarmed attack hits, you deal damage normally, and the target's base land speed is reduced to 5 feet for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier unless it makes a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Wis modifier).

Concerning the bolded part: I'm not a native english speaker an thus I am unsure of how to interpret this.
Is this wording equivalent to that of the cleave feat, which lets you make a special standard action attack (not the attack action) as part of the feat or can you use this feat whenever you "make a single unarmed attack as a standard action", meaning that you add it as a rider effect on top of any standard action unarmed attack that you make?

TL;DR: Is making a standard action unarmed attack a prerequisite for or a consequence of using the feat?

If a creature's constant SLA is dispelled and it's suffering from continuous damage, does the swift-action reactivation of the ability require a concentration check dependent on the amount of continuous damage it is suffering?

My answer hasn't changed since you asked this a couple of weeks ago.

Whoops sorry I forgot that. I'm running multiple character concepts at the same time right now because I'm bored and sometimes I forget I already asked a question. Maybe I should use my brain and employ the search function. Thanks for reminding me.

I was referring to Faith Magic;

Select one spell granted by a domain belonging to the god you worship. This spell must be at least 2 levels lower than the highest-level wizard spell you can cast. When you first prepare your spells for the day, you can prepare this spell once, using a spell slot 1 level higher than the spell’s actual level. This is cast as a divine spell.

Since it doesn't forbid the use of Metamagic feats on the selected spell, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to heighten it to 2nd level and cast it from a 3rd-level slot.

EDIT: *drinks as well*

Let's assume you can prepare one divine spell in a spell slot that is one level higher than normal (which is explicitly cast as a divine spell). You are level 5 so you already have 3rd-level slots. But the only divine spell you have is normally a first-Level spell.

Can you prepare a heightened version (heightened to 2nd level) of your first-level spell in one of your 3rd-level spell slots?

Do you count as being able to cast 2nd-level divine spells for the purpose of meeting prestige class prerequisites, because the heightened spell is a 2nd-level divine spell for all intents and purposes? (EDIT: don't confuse this with the equipment trick sunrod thing, which obviously doesn't work. The spell being cast actually uses up a 2nd-level equivalent slot here)

Relevant material:

Quote from the design team:
The design team does not consider a prerequisite or requirement of "ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells" to literally mean "ability to cast at least two or more 1st-level arcane spells."

Being able to cast one spell of that type and level meets the prerequisite or requirement (if the prerequisite or requirement was intended to mean "two or more," it would say that, or use language like "at least two").

Heighten Spell:
A heightened spell has a higher spell level than normal (up to a maximum of 9th level). Unlike other metamagic feats, Heighten Spell actually increases the effective level of the spell that it modifies. All effects dependent on spell level (such as saving throw DCs and ability to penetrate a lesser globe of invulnerability) are calculated according to the heightened level.

Also it is debatable whether special ki like the temporary ki points from drunken master count as the "ki pool" as it is specified in Ki Arcana. I think it's a gray area.

EDIT: The wording of the Ki Arcana Class feature that the esoteric magus archetype gains and which basically grants him the Arcana of the same name strongly suggests that drunken ki also doesn't work for the Ki Arcana magus arcana:

"Ki Arcana (Su)
At 4th level, an esoteric’s arcane pool is also considered a ki pool for the purposes of meeting feat and ability requirements. Points from an esoteric’s arcane pool can be used for abilities that normally require ki. If an esoteric gains a ki pool, he can use points from his arcane pool and ki pool interchangeably (though not special points such as drunken ki)."

At least it is cleaner and not as exploitive as something dumb like ki leech and coup de grace 6 mounts from communal mount spell or similar.

When wyroot didn't have the cap of how much points you can gain with a weapon made from it, people used to hit bags of angry rats until their pool was full. It was ridiculous.

It comes online late (level 15).
It costs you 2 spellcasting levels.
Don't do it in actual play unless you want to ruin the fun for your fellow players. This is just a proof of concept.

12 levels Magus. Make sure whatever archetype you may choose doesn't replace improved spell recall. Make sure you have the echoing spell Metamagic Feat and Magical Knack to keep yourself at full CL.

1 level Pathfinder Field Agent. Take the ki pool rogue talent.

Gain the Ki Arcana Magus Arcana via retraining or Extra Arcana.

2 levels Pathfinder Savant. Take Replenish Ki from the cleric list as an effective 5th-level spell.

Since you are level 15 now, choose Spell Perfection (Replenish Ki).

Prepare Replenish Ki in a 5th-level spell slot. Cast replenish Ki while using Spell Perfection to apply Echoing spell for free. You get two Ki points which you treat as Arcane Pool points as per Ki Arcana and the free second casting from echoing spell gives you another two points. Use improved spell recall to re-prepare Replenish Ki for 2 points since Pathfinder always rounds down. You have now effectively gained 2 Arcane Pool points without paying for it. Rinse and repeat until Arcane Pool (ki pool) is full.

If you want to argue that Pathfinder Field Agent is not a class that grants a Ki Pool because it only lets you choose it as an option, just take 2 levels in ninja instead. This delays you for an additional level but you now have access to all normal ninja tricks which you can now infinitely use thanks to above exploit.

EDIT: While in combat this method is impractical since the casting time from replenish ki is 1 minute. But you can grab ki leech from the wizard spell list via spell blending and restore ki with crits.

You can use a cackling hag's blouse to cackle twice per day as a swift action, possibly allowing you to maintain cackling while having to move. Also you could change your standard action into a move action in order to move. You wouldn't be able to cast or hex that round then but you could keep cackling.
Furthermore the Protective Luck hex increases duration by one round at 8th and 16th level which also could give you a bit more wiggling room. The combo is actually pretty powerful and it works perfectly per RAW. Good find!

Also if you want to make your own shikigami build, the best bang for your buck "weapon" I've been able to find are minor metamagic rods of Mercy or any of the other 0 level metamagic rods. For a cost of 1,500gp with Shikigami Manipulation they become an improvised +4 light mace. For a medium sized creature with 3 shikigami feats that is 4d6+4 base damage.

That's actually pretty amazing. With Improvised Weapon mastery, this gets a 19-20/x2 range. Then use gloves of improvised might with keen +1 and you can two-weapon fight with two of those suckers who now crit on a 17. While the enhancement bonuses from both sources won't stack, the special abilities still do. Enlarge Person will make this 6d6+4 for even more damage. As a light mace, the gloves could even grant them agile so that you can make it a Dex build.

For comparison, Devastating Strike, from the same book, says "Whenever you use Vital Strike, Improved Vital Strike, or Greater Vital Strike". Notice any difference?
Improved Devastating Strike, Mythic Vital Strike, All-Consuming Swing, Blooded Arcane Strike, Faerie's Strike, Grasping Strike, Winter's Strike, Startoss Comet, Startoss Shower, Painful Blow, Cloak And Dagger Tactics, and Cerberus Crush all also call out all three VS feats, and Soulblade and Diabolic Judgment say "any Vital Strike feat". The only feats that only call out VS itself are Furious Finish, Deep Toxin, Staggering Blow, Savage Critical, and Giant's Crush, with the last three being intended for monsters and not PCs.

"Fatigued: A fatigued character can neither run nor charge and takes a –2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. Doing anything that would normally cause fatigue causes the fatigued character to become exhausted. After 8 hours of complete rest, fatigued characters are no longer fatigued." CRB pg. 567
That's the effects of fatigue. Do you see Rage mentioned? Because I don't....

Thanks for the expansive reply. Well I guess that's a no-no for Rage Cycling and Furious Finish then (although this makes FF a really bad feat). But without furious finish and any other once-per-rage powers, I won't need rage cycling anyways. Time to get myself 48 d6 dice lol.

You mention mechanical reasons for not using SU or SP abilities or using magic items, but I assume it's still largely a matter of personal preference and flavor?

If not, why not use magic items but be prepared for when they all get shut off. It's not like having a belt, cloak, amulet, rings and armor will make you less viable when you use a scroll of antimagic; you'll still be way more effective than most of your opponents. You'll just also be less vulnerable when you don't have the scroll up.

It all started out as an idea for a Barbarian who finds all magic highly suspicious and thus only uses mundane gear. Expanding on that, I decided to not use any supernatural abilities, since I actually liked the thought of someone that is actually strong and resilient by himself without any supernatural help.

You can remove fatigue via lesser resto, but it won't allow you to ragecycle (which means round 1: start rage, move, furious finish vital strike, round 2:same)

As for the hammer, it is not a weapon (it's a piece of equipment used as an improvised weapon) and thus wouldn't be eligible for Ascetic Style. You wouldn't be able to get weapon focus with improvised weapons as well, but WF is a prerequisite for ascetic style.

I see two problems:

Dairfaron wrote:

Greater Vital Strike with Furious Finish

Furious Finish only works with "the Vital Strike feat", and thus not with Improved/Greater VS.

Dairfaron wrote:

For Rage Cycling, you can pop a pill of Allnight to cycle for the next 8 hours.

Allnight "eliminates the effects of fatigue", it does not prevent you from having the condition; meaning it doesn't help with rage cycling at all.

@ your first statement see here.

@ your second statement: depending on one's interpretation, being unable to rage is an effect (note: unlike hobgoblin war draught, all-night does NOT state that it removes the penalties) of being fatigued and thus is removed by the drug. That being said, I also think that you could not get exhausted by getting fatigued a second time while under the effects of the drug . But that is just my interpretation and it's certainly up to the GM. It's the same as with the super-ambigous "effects that augment an unarmed strike"-phrase from Ascetic Style that everyone interprets differently which is why it's banned in PFS.

@ Scott Wilhelm: going for a trip build seems a good idea though I am not quite sure how to make a build out of it. The Sledge really only makes sense for a Vital Strike build and if you drop the Shikigami feats to make space for trip feats you lose the reason why you wanted them in the first place. As for sleeping in heavy armor: No, I'd not sleep in heavy armor. While it may be mechanically possible I think we can agree that no one in their right mind would do that in real life if they were a knight. Of course, you are more vulnerable if you get ambushed at night, but I guess that's just a risk you have to take.
Heart of the Fields is used to cancel the exhaustion from the drug "Allnight" which lets you ignore all effects of fatigue for 8 hours and then makes you exhausted. For level 1 I would choose scale mail, because it's just the best bang for your buck I think. For midgame to lategame I would choose a noqual full plate. Noqual is a skymetal which has the same effect as mithral plus it gives you a mundane +2 resistance bonus on all saves at the cost of a flat 20% spell failure chance. But since we don't cast that won't really matter.

@MrCharisma: I see the benefit in going for a super defensive build, but that way, you won't really deal much damage. If you go for Unchained Barbarian and pick the Increased DR rage power 3 times instead, you sit at 10 DR/- at level 16. The temporary HP from rage should make you a little more beefy as well. That being said, I would find it more Barbarian-like to focus more on offense than on defense. Of course your AC won't be too good (With noqual full plate and 16 DEX, you will sit at around 22 AC), but you will send everybot flying with your Vital Strikes of doom. On a side note, the reason I'd like to focus on a VS build is, that there is no mundane means of getting pounce. And since most targets will be moving around quite a bit, why not just focus on standard action attacks. This way, you always have a move action to spare for battlefield movement.

@both: I just noticed the Feral Gnasher Barbarian. You could spend your human bonus feat on Racial Heritage (Goblin) and in return this archetype gives you SO MUCH cool stuff. Catch off-guard and throw anything plus Improvised weapon mastery plus increased damage with improvised weapons plus a bite with grab. This is so awesome! If people want to run from you, you just make your aoo as a bite, grab them so they can't run, and hit them with your massive hammer as soon as it's your turn. Grab the Body Bludgeon rage power, so that you can smash people with other people while still dealing ginormous amount of damage.

@MisterCharisma: The UBarbarian had better DR than the normal Barbarian. So if you take the Increased DR rage power 3 times you could get the same DR as Invulnerable Rager much earlier. Superstition is an absolute no-brainer. It would be a crime not to pick it. I also read through (improved stalwart) but the problem is that you not only need two feats for it, but also DieHard and Endurance as feat taxes. For a build that is already feat-starved, I just don't see where to fit it in (although it's great).

@Scott Wilhelm: let me walk you through the math with shikigami feats and size increases real quick. First of all, Shikigami Style says

"While in this style, you deal damage with improvised weapons as if they were one size category larger. For every style feat you have that lists Shikigami Style as a prerequisite, treat the improvised weapon as an additional size category larger, to a maximum of three sizes larger than its actual size."

That means that every Shikigami feat gives you an additional effective size increase.

If you increase a weapon's size and have at least 3d6 for damage the weapon deals twice the damage from two sizes ago. That means a large Sledge deals 3d6. With shikigami style 4d6. With Shikigami Mimicry 6d6 and with Shikigami Manipulation 8d6. That means size increases get more powerful the more dice you already have. The increase of the sledge to large size only gives you one extra d6 while the next size increase after 8d6 (for example via a wand of enlarge person) would give you 4 extra d6. And since Vital Strike multiplies dice by a factor, the more size increases you get, the (much) larger the benefit will be. If I use furious finish with GVS this gives 192 damage from vital Strike alone. If I use a wand of enlarge person and then do the same, I'd deal 288 damage.

So while the immediate benefit of Shikigami Manipulation is useless, the size increase it grants by its interaction with Shikigami Style grants us 2d6 bonus damage which become 8d6 with GVS and 48 with Furious Finish. I thought one feat for 48 damage might be worth it.

@avr: Then I would still need another way to remove fatigue/exhaustion
once per day since Heart of the fields is human only. But yeah, racial flight speed would be the easiest way to go.

I was just looking at Titan Fighter and Shikigami Style, and I'm impressed.

It does strike me though, that a Butchering Axe does 3d6, and a Titan Fighter could wield a Large Butchering Axe for 4d6, and you don'thave to spend 3 Feats on Shikigami Style Feats.

It also occurs to me that Shikigami Maniupulation requires the use of a Magic Item. A Sledge Hammer is an item you make attack rolls with: it's made for smashing unattended items. You could just put Enhancement Bonuses on your Sledge and save yourself a Feat.

When you said "Painful Blow," did you mean Devastating Strike?

I'd have you take Great Cleave, so you have a good answer against multiple opponents: Great Cleave vs.Multiple Opponents; Vital Strike single opponents.

I see Furious Focus, but I don't see Power Attack.

To your first reply: I also thought about going for multiple attacks but I wasn't sure if it would be more effective. See, you don't get any enhancement Bonus from your weapon to hit and you can't buy a strength belt, which equates to a -8 compared to a normal Barbarian. Also you get a -2 from Titan Fighter. So I figured in the long run it might deal more damage if I go for one big hit at full BAB. That would also leave your move action available every round, so you have little problems with combat mobility. Also, I try to avoid (Su) abilities as much as possible. What do you think will work out better?

To your second reply: The size increase benefit for the Shikigami chain comes from the base feat, Shikigami Style, so it applies to all improvised weapons. A sledge is an equipment item that counts as an improvised Earth breaker and thus deals 2d6 damage. It's not on d20pfsrd, only on aonprd. Same with Painful Blow. You can only find that feat on aonprd. It makes damage from Vital Strike feats count as continuous damage for the purpose of concentration checks. It's great for shutting down enemy spellcasters at high levels since they have to make a ~DC100 concentration check after you hit them if you deal that much damage on Vital Strikes.

Generally the idea behind this whole concept is, that you do not RELY on magic gear to be effective. For example, you can level up Use Magic Device as one of you skills and then in late game get some scrolls of Antimagic field for boss fights, so every (Sp) or (Su) ability from an enemy fails while you are still at full power because you built mundane from the beginning. You could still carry a wand of enlarge person for normal encounters to dish out 12d6x4 per Greater Vital Strike.
Or maybe an Amulet of Quaking Strikes (only aonprd) which would allow you to Vital Strike bomb a whole group of enemies two or three times as day.

I got bored and so I challenged myself to build a purely mundane Barbarian (no magic items whatsoever) that is somewhat viable. It doesn't have to be as good as a normal build, but Mr. Muscle should be able to survive and dish out some significant damage.

So far I came up with a Vital Strike build:

Human Unchained Barbarian with Heart of the Fields alternate racial trait.

One Level in Titan Fighter and the rest in UBarbarian.

Trait: Surprise Weapon

Feats:

Bonus Feat: Catch Off-Guard
1: Shikigami Style
3: Shikigami Mimicry
5: Shikigami Manipulation
7: Vital Strike
9: Furious Finish
11: Improved Vital Strike
13: Painful Blow
15/16: Greater Vital Strike

Weapon: Large Sledge (8d6 damage with Shikigami Style)
That means a Greater Vital Strike with Furious Finish will hit for some 192 damage. You can craft it out of cryptstone so you can also damage ghosts.
Armor: Noqual full plate (+2 resistance on all saves)

For Rage Cycling, you can pop a pill of Allnight to cycle for the next 8 hours. You can then remove the exhausted condition by using Heart of the Fields. Since it's a drug, you're probably going to get somewhat addicted, so make sure to RP that appropriately.

So far I still have some problems with this build: It lacks a means of flight which it will need in late game to not get outclassed. It is damn feat-starved (I can't even pick Power Attack). And I'd really like to get Throw Anything on top of that since you can use it to throw stuff at people when you can't reach them.

I hope you have some cool ideas to improve on that build. Please share them!