CrystalSeas |
Jason Bulmahn (Director of Game Design) has been running "Knights Of The Everflame" without battle maps.
If you want to see what PF2 looks like being run that way, check out the Paizo YouTube channel
Knights Of The Everflame
Nicolas Paradise |
Theater of the mind works just fine. I certainly think maps can help people get a grasp of the situation and I have to admit since I started a collection in the past year buying and painting mini's is super fun.
But honestly as long as the GM has a piece of graph paper and a pencil so they can accurately track for themselves I think it is fine.
Cydeth RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
While theater of the mind does well for some people, for others it doesn't. My wife and another person who we game with have issues with imagining things. It's got a medical name (which I can't remember, unfortunately), but they can't imagine the appearance of a color or apple. Many artists (but not all!) are the opposite, and can imagine an entire scene incredibly realistically, while other people are somewhere in the middle.
All of which is a long-winded way to say, do what works for your group. I've run theater of the mind before, and I think that PF2 wouldn't be any harder than PF1 in that regard. Some people prefer the maps, though.
Tender Tendrils |
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I find that some kind of visual representation cuts down on confusion. If you rely on verbal descriptions of positions, it is very easy (in any edition or any rpg) for each player to end up having a wildly different idea of where things are in relation to each other.
Having minis or tokens down on a grid or even just on the table helps to mitigate that.
Theatre of the mind works okay for when you are fighting a single creature (or somehow have players who listen really really well and interpret things the same way you do) but with many creatures, it can quickly devolve into confusion with people misunderstanding your descriptions of where things are and you misunderstanding (or forgetting) where players meant for their characters to be.
Garretmander |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Personally, I zone out quick in theatre of the mind, while with a map I'm constantly paying attention to the battle and planning my next turn while it's someone else's.
Plus, with three actions, the difference between 'I move once and then...' and 'I move twice and then...' are significant, and I think difficult to adjudicate correctly theater of the mind.
TheGentlemanDM |
I always use maps and minis to some degree.
With things like movement speed, flanking, enemy and player positioning for AOEs, the Champion's reactions, the Barbarian's Swipe, the Ranger's volley limitation, cover, terrain... there's a lot of little tactical things that are much easier to consider when it's all there in front of you.
It keeps it fairer, and means that if someone has extra movement, or abilities that move enemies around, those options aren't getting muddied by theatre of the mind.
tivadar27 |
"Required" is a strong word. I'd say that, in this edition, battle maps are more required than in PF1e. We haven't really lost any of the previous things you needed to measure for (spell range, reach, flanking...) plus combat is more mobile in general, so you have to account for more movement.
All that being said, yeah, you can totally run without a battle mat and have a good play experience.
graeme mcdougall |
I feel like D&D in general has always worked better with maps. ToTM games are fine, but they tend to distort space compared to playing with minis.
I agree. I wouldn't even play 5e without a grid for combat, let alone PF1/ PF2/ SF. If I wanted to play D20 with no grid, I'd use 13th age that has proper rules for abstracting the combat flow. Otherwise, you rob players & characters of loads of subtleties of their abilities.
All that said, I don't think PF2 is any harder to TOM than those other games I mentioned.Captain Morgan |
"Required" is a strong word. I'd say that, in this edition, battle maps are more required than in PF1e. We haven't really lost any of the previous things you needed to measure for (spell range, reach, flanking...) plus combat is more mobile in general, so you have to account for more movement.
All that being said, yeah, you can totally run without a battle mat and have a good play experience.
Conversely, with AoOs being rarer you don't have to sweat exact placement as much.
tivadar27 |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
tivadar27 wrote:Conversely, with AoOs being rarer you don't have to sweat exact placement as much."Required" is a strong word. I'd say that, in this edition, battle maps are more required than in PF1e. We haven't really lost any of the previous things you needed to measure for (spell range, reach, flanking...) plus combat is more mobile in general, so you have to account for more movement.
All that being said, yeah, you can totally run without a battle mat and have a good play experience.
I guess that's a fair point :). Though in 1e, the simple solution was 5' step or don't move at all... So I'm not sure that in practice AoOs are actually rarer :-P.
Garretmander |
tivadar27 wrote:Conversely, with AoOs being rarer you don't have to sweat exact placement as much."Required" is a strong word. I'd say that, in this edition, battle maps are more required than in PF1e. We haven't really lost any of the previous things you needed to measure for (spell range, reach, flanking...) plus combat is more mobile in general, so you have to account for more movement.
All that being said, yeah, you can totally run without a battle mat and have a good play experience.
Eh... I'd say it matters even more in a boss fight than other editions, where getting just that extra 5' further prevents them using their two action whammy, or gets out of range of a spell, etc.
Still not required of course, but keeping in mind relative speeds is more important.