Weapon cords on spell books inside handy haversack


Rules Questions


I have a player, who is playing arcanist, and I'm curious about the level of "optimization vs. reality" that is happening. Would you guys allow this if you were the GM?

So this arcanist has the quick study exploit. This allows him to swap spells as a full round action. However, quick study also states that you must have a Spellbook available for use during the quick study action. In order to do that, a player must pull a spell book. This presents 3 problems. First this eats a move action. second, this provokes an AOO, since spell books are not drawn as weapons. And third, spellbooks might need to be dropped or otherwise put away afterwards. That is either using more actions, or leaving valuables on the ground. So what this player proposes, in order to get rid of as many issues as possible, is to wander around with spell books in hand ready to go. When I pointed out that she has multiple spell books, he has decided to put them all on weapon cords, and then in order to not provoke, put them in a handy haversack. I stated that I do not understand how an item could be inside a handy haversack yet also have a cord extended out and attached to his body somewhere.

What do you think about all of that? I think it would be fine if the books were stored in real physical space with a real physical cord attached to his body, or if they were not corded, and were stored inside of a haversack's extradimensional space. What decisions would you make?


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So the arcanists hands are both tied to her backpack? Probably without much slack? With cords 2' long? That'd be...awkward, at best. The entangled condition, more likely.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

A couple of RAW issues:

1) A spellbook is not a weapon (usually; outside of certain archetypes, at least). Just like Quick Draw cannot be used to retrieve a non-weapon item ("Alchemical items, potions, scrolls, and wands cannot be drawn quickly using this feat"), weapon cords only allow retrieval of weapons.

2) The weapon cord has been errata'd to a move action instead of a swift action.

3) Any item in a handy haversack will take a move action to retrieve ("Retrieving any specific item from a haversack is a move action, but it does not provoke the attacks of opportunity that retrieving a stored item usually does"). Having weapon cord tied to it doesn't change this (magic only does what it says; nothing more, nothing less).

Now, there is a way to "pull out" a spellbook when needed for the Quick Study exploit without losing a round: a glove of storing. With the 20 lb weight limit, that can be a sizable tome.


There is the Book Lariat which is a "weapon cord for books" though it's substantially worse than a weapon cord, at best it lets you drag the book around with you.

If you want to be nice you could allow the player to have a variant of the Weapon Tattoo that can only be used to store a single book. When the book is out instead of showing a sheath it could show an empty bookshelf. Otherwise as Dragonchess has stated a glove of storing is probably the best option. The nice thing about the tattoo is that they have a separate set of slots. So, while the glove of storing eats up a glove slot the weapon tattoo doesn't. It only takes up a hand slot for tattoos.


Weapon Cords are completely out as addressed above, but I think you might be able to do that with Apport Object, at least the get-into-hand part. You can even have multiple instances of the spell active.

Dark Archive

To your next game, bring two lengths of cord (heavy string or heavier, a little over 2 feet long). Have the player tie one end of them the cords to each wrist. Tie the other ends to the players belt, around their back. Have them play like that for the evening...

Or heck, realizing that the Haversack is normally carried on the back and the 'sacks opening is behind a person head, you might just tie a ring of keys to the ends of each of the cords and have the player toss it over their shoulder onto their back (left arm over right shoulder and right over left). Every time the player has a key ring pop over his shoulder a book pops out of the 'sack... Remember that stowing an item draws an AOO...

Be sure to do this in jest. It should be good fun, stop immediately if it feels like they are being picked on...

Scarab Sages

Cast unseen servant to pull books from your (normal) pack and hand them to you. Extra "cool points" if you name the servant "Jeeves" or something like that...

Player: "The Red Tomb Jeeves..." while holding out my hand.


Thank you all so much. I think that my player and I we're envisioning the weapon cord similar to the book lariat. We expected it to be attached to a belt or something. And longer than 2 feet if needed. I was more skeptical about the "rope dangling out of an extradimensional space" aspect. But I guess the logistical issues you guys described are also relevant. You've come up with some great solutions, so I thank you for that. I've mentioned to them to the player, hopefully there's something good there.


Glove of storing is expensive, but the best. Hard to beat a free action and the book is still available if you end up in an extra dimensional space.


Melkiador wrote:
Glove of storing is expensive, but the best. Hard to beat a free action and the book is still available if you end up in an extra dimensional space.

This.

The Glove of Storing does not place whatever it is storing in an extradimensional space. It is based off the spell Shrink Item and not Secret Chest (or other extraplanar or extradimension creating spell).


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outshyn wrote:
...I was more skeptical about the "rope dangling out of an extradimensional space" aspect. ...

A rope? Dangling from an extradimensional space?

Preposterous! Who ever heard of such a thing!?
<.<
>.>


A pricey option, but one with flair, is to enchant the book as an intelligent item. The book, as a creature, gets an action it can use to force an ego check to be used. The arcanist can voluntarily fail the check to take the book out on its action rather than his.

Cheesy, but no worse than other action economy exploits.


I'd agree that the weapon cord RAW are for a weapon, perhaps even an improvised weapon. <grin>
The weapon cord nerf/eratta essentially makes its real ability to keep the weapon within 5 ft. Not bad if you have to retreat. Note that there is a penalty associated with the hand the cord is tied to.
Other than that you are in the GMs grey area.

An unseen servant IS more practical. There are limitations and concerns with HndyHvsck as only the wearer is defined to pull out items as a move action. Normally line of effect ends at the extradimensional space. See Rope Trick.

Commentary- I mainly run wizards so I understand the goal. As a home GM I'd suggest just using the haversack to pull the book you want. An unseen servant can put it back or it could be done after combat. That also implies you only want to pull 1 book, so I'd have my spellbooks categorized by type/situation of spell rather than spell level. This means there will be duplicate spells in my library BUT I'll probably only need to pull 1 book. Spell copies are half cost till you can afford a Blessed Book.

Lastly, why is the wizard in combat?!! Get 2 wrist sheaths, Obs Mist, Vanish.... Heighten Awareness, Illusion of Calm, and Longarm are standard spells.


Tenser's Floating Disk

Have your familiar ride around on it and hand you items.

Bonus points if you take the feat Disk Rider and wear silver.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I'd start with the easy thing first. While the character may well have multiple spell books, their are a finite number of spells that really desirable as an 'I really need this right now" spell. I would expect that a little bit of thought could reduce the needed spells to a single book (particularly a blessed book which is a good investment anyway.) This would greatly reduce the need for extra-dimensional shenanigans.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Dave Justus wrote:
I'd start with the easy thing first. While the character may well have multiple spell books, their are a finite number of spells that really desirable as an 'I really need this right now" spell. I would expect that a little bit of thought could reduce the needed spells to a single book (particularly a blessed book which is a good investment anyway.) This would greatly reduce the need for extra-dimensional shenanigans.
Quote:
The arcanist must be able to reference her spellbook when using this ability

You will need bookmarks to rapidly find the right spells. With 1,000 pages and a few hundred spells in the blessed book, it would be difficult to have access to all the content.

The best system, I think, is to have booklets with a few spells in them (a normal spellbook has 100 pages, but there are examples with fewer pages) and a way to get them rapidly.
Honestly, I think that the constraints of needing to reference the spellbook and the time requirement aren't in syntony with each other. Either you should be able to use the ability without the need to reference the book, maybe at a higher cost (similarly to the spell recall of the magus) or you need to reference the book, but then the ability should require a bit more time.
Currently, we have an ability that says that you need 1 full round but actually require one or more actions plus a full round.

BTW, accepting/taking an item from an unseen servant (or a friend) isn't a free action, so you end using actions for that, too.


I assume that finding the right page is just part of the supernatural ability.


I believe an arcanist can find the correct entry as a free action.


Volkard Abendroth wrote:

Tenser's Floating Disk

Have your familiar ride around on it and hand you items.

Bonus points if you take the feat Disk Rider and wear silver.

The feat is Magic Trick.

Here is what you might look like: image

Also, there is Secluded Grimoire to offload a spellbook.

/cevah

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