Reading the description of the spell.
would the duration be 1 week, or permanent?
https://aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Polymorph%20Any%20Object
www.yzzerdd.com wrote: Reading the description of the spell.
would the duration be 1 week, or permanent?
https://aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Polymorph%20Any%20Object
Also, what happens when PAO wears off the zombie dragon you created, does it turn into a zombie squirrel?
|
2 people marked this as a favorite.
|
I'd say 12 hours, same as lizard to manticore. And sure, zombie squirtel after it runs out.
www.yzzerdd.com wrote: Reading the description of the spell.
would the duration be 1 week, or permanent?
https://aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Polymorph%20Any%20Object
Considering that PAO is very limited in what it can actually do, you look at what spells can be duplicated and go with the best substitute. The one that changes something like a dead squirrel to a dead dragon would more likely be Greater Polymorph rather than flesh to stone, or any of the transmute to X spells listed.
So lets tick the boxes between a squirrel and a dragon. Which results in +5 for both being animals. 12 hour transformation. Lets use a dead lizard for a total of +7 so it becomes 1 week.
Either way, our 1/2 HD creature get the body of a medium sized dragon for 1 week, because the best Greater Polymrph can do is copy Form of the Dragon 1. Alter your squirrel's stats by the +4 str, +2 con and +4 natural armor that the transformation gives. Then further modify that for the zombie template. It is still a 1/2 HD creature, but the zombie template will add some HD. And at the end of the duration for the PAO it will go back to being a squirrel, and retain the zombie template it gained.
If you started with a pseduo-dragon it would be a permanent change. If you started with a Lizardman or Kobold you could argue that its close enough and/or intelligent enough to be a (+9) permanent change. Again, the HD of the target doesn't change when the polymorph is applied.
For a nastier version start with a more powerful but easier to kill creature. Preferably something medium sized with lot of HP. A Black Bear would work. Or a large dog. now raise it as a zombie before you POA. They are both animals (+5), same size (+2), and related (zombie to zombie, +2). Related is a bit shakey, if the GM doesn't buy it let it go.
Dragons aren't animals (game mechanic), they are dragons
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Name Violation wrote: Dragons aren't animals (game mechanic), they are dragons True, but the rules for PAO don't use creature types, they reference the "kingdoms": animal, mineral, vegatable.
Yes it would be permanent, and it would be a waste of your level 8 spell... You'd have an undead zombie dragon that is barely stronger than an undead squirrel. The creatures hit dice don't change, and the spell doesn't change the creature's Charisma score, which is what undead creatures use as their con modifier for health. So you'd essentially have a medium sized undead squirrel (that looks like a dragon) with +4 strength and Nat armor that can fly... Your best bet for something like this is to kill something with an incredibly high strength score and high racial hit dice, animate dead, then use PAO to make it into a medium sized zombie dragon.. You now have a viable undead dragon servant with a clumsy fly speed, but with a bite, 2 claw, 2 wing, and a slam attack, as well as other zombie/undead template stuff. Fun!
However, at the end of the day it's really not much more effective than just animating an *actual* dragon, since the effectiveness of your undead polymorphed creature is heavily reliant on its original form's racial hit dice.
CMantle wrote: Yes it would be permanent, and it would be a waste of your level 8 spell... You'd have an undead zombie dragon that is barely stronger than an undead squirrel. The creatures hit dice don't change, and the spell doesn't change the creature's Charisma score, which is what undead creatures use as their con modifier for health. So you'd essentially have a medium sized undead squirrel (that looks like a dragon) with +4 strength and Nat armor that can fly... Your best bet for something like this is to kill something with an incredibly high strength score and high racial hit dice, animate dead, then use PAO to make it into a medium sized zombie dragon.. You now have a viable undead dragon servant with a clumsy fly speed, but with a bite, 2 claw, 2 wing, and a slam attack, as well as other zombie/undead template stuff. Fun!
However, at the end of the day it's really not much more effective than just animating an *actual* dragon, since the effectiveness of your undead polymorphed creature is heavily reliant on its original form's racial hit dice.
I actually assumed the point was to make it a dragon in order to harvest dragon scales and bone for armor and weapons
Name Violation wrote: CMantle wrote: Yes it would be permanent, and it would be a waste of your level 8 spell... You'd have an undead zombie dragon that is barely stronger than an undead squirrel. The creatures hit dice don't change, and the spell doesn't change the creature's Charisma score, which is what undead creatures use as their con modifier for health. So you'd essentially have a medium sized undead squirrel (that looks like a dragon) with +4 strength and Nat armor that can fly... Your best bet for something like this is to kill something with an incredibly high strength score and high racial hit dice, animate dead, then use PAO to make it into a medium sized zombie dragon.. You now have a viable undead dragon servant with a clumsy fly speed, but with a bite, 2 claw, 2 wing, and a slam attack, as well as other zombie/undead template stuff. Fun!
However, at the end of the day it's really not much more effective than just animating an *actual* dragon, since the effectiveness of your undead polymorphed creature is heavily reliant on its original form's racial hit dice.
I actually assumed the point was to make it a dragon in order to harvest dragon scales and bone for armor and weapons In the context of pathfinder, there is no reason to harvest dragons scales, claws or other body parts. They very frankly have no value unless your GM says so. And if your GM did say so, then PAO wouldn't be able to create them because it says "This spell cannot create material of great intrinsic value". Also since polymorph spells only change your appearance and not your actual creature type those would be vermin scales and claws your harvesting, not dragon. Well, I suppose PAO would be a way to get Rooster Teeth if you need them for some reason.
And even if you could, if I recall, severing the things would cause the severed part to revert due to the weird polymorph rules.
Note that that the squirrel, as a tiny creature, gets an extra +4 Str and -2 Dex when polymorphed into a Medium dragon, resulting is scores of +8 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con for Form of Dragon I.
Here's the problem, when we're talking about "form of the dragon" it doesn't apply, because you're polymorphing meat into bigger meat. The object is no longer a squirrel, or whatever creature I start with, it's meat.
A dead body is NOT a valid target for "form of the dragon" the only legal target for "form of the dragon" is "YOU" so the rules for that do not apply. Also, the final form is not a dragon, it's a zombie.
You're trying to follow the rules at the end of the spell that say: "This spell can also be used to duplicate the effects of baleful polymorph, greater polymorph, flesh to stone, stone to flesh, transmute mud to rock, transmute metal to wood, or transmute rock to mud."
If the amount of meat or STR score mattered for the original meat, I'd buy a dead buffalo, and polymorph that 28STR creature into a dead dragon...
The original idea, is that you don't have to have the actual body of a dead dragon around, to make a flesh puppet. I could polymorph a dead body into a dragon body, and then cast "flesh puppet" for fun times...
For instance, there is nothing in the PAO spell that prevents me from polymorphing a dead squirrel body into an ancient red worm corpse (outside of the scope of "form of the dragon"). Or if you want to polymorph something into an outsider. The rules at the end of the spell, just don't apply.
www.yzzerdd.com wrote: For instance, there is nothing in the PAO spell that prevents me from polymorphing a dead squirrel body into an ancient red worm corpse (outside of the scope of "form of the dragon"). Or if you want to polymorph something into an outsider. The rules at the end of the spell, just don't apply.
There is nothing in PAO that supports you being able to polymorph anything into an ancient red worm. The guidelines given in PAO are that it can duplicate the effects of a laundry list of spells, in a potentially more permanent or at least longer duration.
The only spell on the list that produces a dragon will at best make a medium sized dragon.
The meat argument doesn't matter. Once you talk about using that meat as a creature, you need creature stats and PAO works as well as PAO does on anything else: its limited by the spells its allowed to copy.
If you really feel that PAO can do anything that isn't mentioned in its spell, then why try to make dead dragons when you could make very much live Pit Fiends? PAO can't do that either so they are equally valid as other dead things the spell can't produce.
The outsider thing is a whole different question that I beg to disagree.
The table where it says: manticore to shrew
is an example of what it can do.
at the bottom it says: "this spell can also" (also being the key word)
I believe rules as written would allow me to polymorph one demon into another demon, longer duration if the end product is a less powerful demon.
Quote of what's been said before on PAO
PAO is the most misunderstood spell in the game (and with good reason. It's not well written). Here is what it can actually do:
It functions as the spell Greater Polymorph (which itself functions as either: animal or magical beast as Beast Shape IV, elemental as Elemental Body III, humanoid as Alter Self, plant as Plant Shape II, dragon as Form of the Dragon I; Note that this means PAO cannot do aberrations, constructs, fey, monstrous humanoid, oozes, outsiders other than elementals, undead, or vermin), with the following exceptions:
1)The duration works differently, as shown in the tables (potentially being permanent)
2)It can turn creatures into objects, using the rules listed in the spell
3)It can turn objects into creatures (while it says it can do this, the mechanics for doing so are not fully explained, due to how polymorph changed between 3.5 and PF. For instance, what is the objects HD? BAB? base saves? etc.)
4)Finally, PAO can be used to mimic one of the following spells instead of the above uses: baleful polymorph, greater polymorph, flesh to stone, stone to flesh, transmute mud to rock, transmute metal to wood, or transmute rock to mud
Note that when polymorphing into a creature, you do not gain that creature's stats or special abilities. Instead, you gain bonuses to your own ability scores as appropriate for the polymorph spell (Beast Shape IV for animals, etc.), and any special abilities that polymorph spell lists, as well as all natural weapons.
Recent threads in Rules Questions
|
