Polymorph Any Object + Invisible Stalker


Rules Questions


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

PAO Says you lose all ex abilities dependent on form. It does not say you gain any. Invisible Stalker has no non-invisible form. What happens if I turn something into one?

Please be as RAW as possible, and I don't need any vague 'I think...' answers nor 'Ask your DM' answers.


This is easy, you can't use polymorph any object to turn something into an invisible stalker.

Polymorph Any Object wrote:
This spell functions like greater polymorph

Greater Polymorph does not allow you to turn into one, therefore you cannot turn into one using PAO.

There's your RAW.


PAO by the RAW allows you to become an invisible stalker. While it doesn't specifically state you gain any abilities of the form you assume, it references greater polymorph, which in turn references the various "form of" spells. Which do explicitly state what abilities you gain based on what form you take.

So, by RAW, it's possible to gain any of the following abilities via POA

darkvision, whirlwind, earth glide, burn, vortex, flight, breath weapons, damage reduction, regeneration, trample, low-light vision, constrict, grab, poison, blindsense, scent, tremorsense, ferocity, jet, pounce, rake, rend, roar, spikes, trip, web, and probably others I've missed.

Invisible stalkers are elementals but their natural invisibility is not an ability covered by any of the elemental form spells. A DM could rule that you gain this ability if they feel it is on par with the other abilities that are possible with this spell. It's worth noting that even the fey form spells do not convey invisibility even though you could use them to look like a pixie.

Invisible stalkers absolutely have a physical form, they are not incorporeal and while they can negate invisibility purge they have no way to stop see invisibility.

All this to say. by the RAW, if you use POA on a creature and turn them into an invisible stalker, they would look like a non-invisible invisible stalker, which is a type of air elemental.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

PAO is the most misunderstood spell in the game (and with good reason. It's not well written). Here is what it can actually do:

It functions as the spell Greater Polymorph (which itself functions as either: animal or magical beast as Beast Shape IV, elemental as Elemental Body III, humanoid as Alter Self, plant as Plant Shape II, dragon as Form of the Dragon I; Note that this means PAO cannot do aberrations, constructs, fey, monstrous humanoid, oozes, outsiders other than elementals, undead, or vermin), with the following exceptions:

1)The duration works differently, as shown in the tables (potentially being permanent)
2)It can turn creatures into objects, using the rules listed in the spell
3)It can turn objects into creatures (while it says it can do this, the mechanics for doing so are not fully explained, due to how polymorph changed between 3.5 and PF. For instance, what is the objects HD? BAB? base saves? etc.)
4)Finally, PAO can be used to mimic one of the following spells instead of the above uses: baleful polymorph, greater polymorph, flesh to stone, stone to flesh, transmute mud to rock, transmute metal to wood, or transmute rock to mud

Note that when polymorphing into a creature, you do not gain that creature's stats or special abilities. Instead, you gain bonuses to your own ability scores as appropriate for the polymorph spell (Beast Shape IV for animals, etc.), and any special abilities that polymorph spell lists, as well as all natural weapons.

In regards to this thread, you cannot PAO into an Invisible Stalker, because Elemental Body III can only turn you into a Large or smaller air, earth, water, or fire elemental (as in the creatures with the name "X elemental", not just any outsider with the elemental and air/earth/water/fire subtypes), which is what Greater Polymorph functions as, which is what PAO functions as


I'm in the RAW says no camp. None of the spells listed by Greater Polymorph would let you become an Invisible Stalker so PAO couldn't do it either.


After closer reading I agree with Zollqir. The following line

Polymorph any Object wrote:
You can use this spell to transform all manner of objects and creatures into new forms- you aren’t limited to transforming a living creature into another living form.

sounded like it allows you to turn anything into anything. But looking at it closer now, I see that it allows you to turn anything (except magical objects and things that are immune to polymorph effects) into specific groups of creatures/objects.

so, you can change an invisible stalker into a human, but it doesn't allow the reverse.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

I don't understand how this spell came with the CRB, is hottly debated, is PFS legal, and yet has no FAQ nor errata.

Willuwontu - Full sentence context matters, as the one you clipped down also has the exception clause.

LordKailas - That's roughly what I came up with. That you could assume the form, but as it's an unlisted ex, you don't gain the ability.

Zollqir - You also have the impression PAO is limited to the form spells listed within Greater Poly, ignoring the exception clause.

With input from both sides of interpretation, it's made even more starkly clear that this is in need of an FAQ/errata/PFS ruling. I'd rather not debate the spell, but request bumps for FAQ marks so we can end the debate.


Caspain:

I'm not sure what exception clause you refer to. If it's this:

PAO wrote:
This spell functions like greater polymorph, except that it changes one object or creature into another. You can use this spell to transform all manner of objects and creatures into new forms—you aren't limited to transforming a living creature into another living form.

then I'm not sure how that can be interpreted to mean the spell can polymorph the target into any creature. If it's specifically the phrase "You can use this spell to transform all manner of objects and creatures into new forms", then I will point you to the definition of the colloquial phrase "all manner of ..." here:

definition wrote:


all manner of
phrase of manner
many different kinds of.
"they accuse me of all manner of evil things"

Let us assume for a moment that you are right, and that the spell allows us to transform the target into an Invisible Stalker:


  • 1) What ability score changes would the target receive? It wouldn't be able to use those listed in Greater Polymorph, since none of the spells in Greater Polymorph can polymorph the target into an Invisible Stalker.
  • 2) What special abilities would the target receive? Once again, none of the spells in Greater Polymorph can polymorph the target into an Invisible Stalker.

Since PAO says "This spell functions like greater polymorph ...", we must assume it functions exactly like Greater Polymorph, except in places where PAO makes an explicit exception. I've already listed the only differences between PAO and Greater Polymorph, which I will briefly enumerate again here:


  • 1) The duration works differently
  • 2) It can turn creatures into objects
  • 3) It can turn objects into creatures (the mechanics for which are not well-defined, and do not actually function)
  • 4) The spell can, instead of being used in the normal way, mimic one of the following spells: baleful polymorph, greater polymorph, flesh to stone, stone to flesh, transmute mud to rock, transmute metal to wood, or transmute rock to mud

In regards to you saying the spell is worthy of an FAQ, I certainly agree. However, given that this is a CRB spell, and the long, prevalent history of confusion surrounding it, it's obvious that Paizo does not want to touch the subject with a 10 foot pole, so I doubt this spell will ever get an FAQ.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder RPG / Rules Questions / Polymorph Any Object + Invisible Stalker All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.