Homebrewing has its own Forum.
People come here when they want to know how rules work, either because they do Organized Play, or their GM defaults to Organized Play rules for balance.
Wanting to know how the rules work as published isn't an Organized Play specific thing. Even if you're extremely liberal with houserules, understanding the baseline is important to knowingexactly what your houserules will end up affecting.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Technically, all Feats have Requirements: -, so it's simply not listed unless needed.
It would be nice to have a FAQ section for RAI, which answers topics such as these. That way, an Errata can actually go into errors in the text, while a RAI can go into explanations of unclear (or possibly not optimized) text sections.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Cool, so we've finally moved away from people thinking they could rub the pommel of their sword on an injured guy or spit from afar or something to heal someone with battle medicine.
This is also a world where some random guy with mundane chemistry kit can make vials of non magical liquid that can basically regrow you from near death to perfect health in a few drinks. The idea that battlefield medicine is using some lesser version of what alchemy does can't be that surprising or strange.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Cool, so we've finally moved away from people thinking they could rub the pommel of their sword on an injured guy or spit from afar or something to heal someone with battle medicine.This is also a world where some random guy with mundane chemistry kit can make vials of non magical liquid that can basically regrow you from near death to perfect health in a few drinks. The idea that battlefield medicine is using some lesser version of what alchemy does can't be that surprising or strange.
Exactly your talking spending 1 actions on the actual usage of the feat to recover someone HP. But the fact you do that in 2 seconds isn't breaking peoples realism its not needing hands or a medkit.
its a bad case of RAMVORD (Rules As My View of Realism/Reality Dictate)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Cool, so we've finally moved away from people thinking they could rub the pommel of their sword on an injured guy or spit from afar or something to heal someone with battle medicine.This is also a world where some random guy with mundane chemistry kit can make vials of non magical liquid that can basically regrow you from near death to perfect health in a few drinks. The idea that battlefield medicine is using some lesser version of what alchemy does can't be that surprising or strange.Exactly your talking spending 1 actions on the actual usage of the feat to recover someone HP. But the fact you do that in 2 seconds isn't breaking peoples realism its not needing hands or a medkit.
its a bad case of RAMVORD (Rules As My View of Realism/Reality Dictate)
This is why I liked the clarification in the APG. Wear the kit and have a hand free makes logical sense in as much as any of the quick alchemy stuff does.
This is why I liked the clarification in the APG. Wear the kit and have a hand free makes logical sense in as much as any of the quick alchemy stuff does.Cool, so we've finally moved away from people thinking they could rub the pommel of their sword on an injured guy or spit from afar or something to heal someone with battle medicine.This is also a world where some random guy with mundane chemistry kit can make vials of non magical liquid that can basically regrow you from near death to perfect health in a few drinks. The idea that battlefield medicine is using some lesser version of what alchemy does can't be that surprising or strange.Exactly your talking spending 1 actions on the actual usage of the feat to recover someone HP. But the fact you do that in 2 seconds isn't breaking peoples realism its not needing hands or a medkit.
its a bad case of RAMVORD (Rules As My View of Realism/Reality Dictate)
I think the real issue there is tying a bunch of hidden actions to a 1 action feat that might see at best a few uses a day. I'm fine with needing a free hand but we need to know what that free hand actually has to be. Completely free period, Hand can be holding medical kit, or free hand plus hand to hold kit. All of this assuming we get told 1 hand free and not both free.
So we got some pretty game changing Errata, and it seems to address certain aspects of this debate, but I am not sure I fully see whether the question of the number of free hands required to perform this feat has been answered.
For me as a gm, the fact that the feat does not specify any number of hands will remain the deciding factor, as it only specifies that you be wearing the tools, but the new Errata does complicate that because it specifies that wearing the tools lets you draw and stow the tools as a part of the action to use them, but if the tools themselves still specify that they require two hands, then it seems like you would still need those hands free to fully use the tools as a part of the action, you would just end the action with your hands free again.
But if that means you always need two hands free for any action that requires that you be wearing healer's tools, than actions that require that you wear them and have a hand free is either a non-sensical stipulation, or a call for having three hands? The new Errata almost got this one cleared up, but I don't see any of the changes made having a point that will stop people from debating this.
|
Maybe I read it differently - my take:
Hold them in your hands - 2 hands needed - nothing else you can have in these
Wear them (in a bandolier) - 1 hand needed and you can retrieve them as part of the action
Do not take the 2 hands in Table 6-9 - CRB p.288 as the one and only source for hand use.
Compare with the ordinary sack. Hand in table 6-9 -1.
If you go to the description: 0 hands needed if you have it tugged into your belt, 1 hand if you carry it, 2 hands if you retrieve something from the sack.
edit: or do I miss any other mention of 2 hands needed - it is a while since I went to this in very much detail
edit 2: but it clearly rules out 0 hands even if you wear the tools now (unless I hear some mental gymnastics I haven't contemplated yet)
But where does the one hand come from? nothing indicates that you can be using the tools with one hand. Not even in the new errata does it say drawing and stowing the tools can be done with only one hand.
|
|
@unicore - for unknown reasons I can't access the original FAQ on the paizo pages (guess I need a different browser - I have these here from reddit where someone only listed the changes. So there is a possibility something got lost/changed. Guess it is the errata P.248 where one handed use comes from
248: To reflect the clarification on healer's tools allowing you to draw them as part of the action if you're wearing them, change the Requirements to "You are holding healer's tools, or you are wearing them and have a hand free"
Page 258: In Battle Medicine, change the Requirements entry to “You are holding or wearing healer's tools.” Change the second sentence of the effect to “Attempt a Medicine check with the same DC as for Treat Wounds, and restore a corresponding amount of Hit Points; this does not remove the wounded condition.” This means you need to use your healer's tools for Battle Medicine, but you can draw and replace worn tools as part of the action due to the errata on wearing tools on page 287.
Page 287 adds a paragraph on Wearing Tools: "You can make a set of tools (such as alchemist’s tools or healer’s tools) easier to use by wearing it. This allows you to draw and replace the tools as part of the action that uses them. You can wear up to 2 Bulk of tools in this manner; tools beyond this limit must be stowed or drawn with an Interact action to use." Fine clothing reduces that limit to light Bulk worth of tools.
Edit: to make it complete - one more entry
Page 271: We've simplified the way we're handling characters carrying their gear so that you can define all your carried items in one of three categories. Replace the carrying and using items section with this text: "A character carries items in three ways: held, worn, and stowed. Held items are in your hands; a character typically has two hands, allowing them to hold an item in each hand or a single two-handed item using both hands. Worn items are tucked into pockets, belt pouches, bandoliers, weapon sheaths, and so forth, and they can be retrieved and returned relatively quickly. Stowed items are in a backpack or a similar container, and they are more difficult to access. Drawing a worn item or changing how you’re carrying an item usually requires you to use an Interact action (though to drop an item, you use the Release action instead). Table 6–2: Changing Equipment on page 273 lists some ways that you might change the items you’re holding or carrying, and the number of hands you need to do so. Many ways of using items require you to spend multiple actions. For example, drinking a potion worn at your belt requires using an Interact action to draw it and then using a second action to drink it as described in its Activate entry (page 532)."
|
Note that the new CRB and the Errata are DIFFERENT and (probably) lead to different answers to the question.
It has its own thread. Probably best to discuss it there
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I am not sure I fully see whether the question of the number of free hands required to perform this feat has been answered.
How relevant this is, IDK, but Paizo has been stressing that the BB does not have any rules that are different from the CRB.
In the Cleric chapter, 2nd-Level Cleric Class Features
Battle Medicine
You know how to quickly heal your allies with Medicine. Write "Battle Medicine" in the Level 2 box in the Class section of your character sheet.Battle Medicine [reaction]
You can patch up wounds with your healer's tools and a free hand. Attempt a DC 15 Medicine check to heal yourself or an ally for 2d8 Hit Points. If you become an expert in Medicine, you can instead attempt a DC 20 Medicine check to heal for 2d8+10 Hit Points. You can heal a particular person only once each day with Battle Medicine.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
How relevant this is, IDK, but Paizo has been stressing that the BB does not have any rules that are different from the CRB.
Battle Medicine [reaction]
I am amused, however, that Battle Medicine in the BB is a reaction though. ;)
I am amused, however, that Battle Medicine in the BB is a reaction though. ;)
I'm waiting for the BB forum to be created before I go into that. My best guess is it's a mistake.