Human: Favored class bonus is an extra spell known per level
Magical Lineage Trait: Acid Splash
Elemental Spell Feat: Fire
Phoenix Bloodline: Fire spells can heal half the amount of damage they would have caused, chosen when the spell is cast.
Draconic Bloodline: +1 to Fire damage per die of damage in the fire spell
From what I can tell, it looks like this build is at least as good as the Oracle at restoring hit point damage, and probably comparable to the average Cleric, though it can't remove conditions or restore a dead creature to true life.
Examples of this Draconic-Phoenix Sorcerer's healing: Note that these are ranged spells, and that they can heal the following, or deal double that in fire damage.
SL0: (fire) Acid Splash, heals 1-2hp (avg 1.33)*Unlimited healing cantrip
SL1: Burning Hands, @L5+ heals 5-12hp (avg 8.75)
SL2: Scorching Ray, @L11+ heals 12-42 (avg 27)
SL3: Fireball, @L10+ heals 10-35 (avg 22.5 to each creature in a 20ft radius)
SL4: Pyrotechnic Eruption, @L15+, over 4 rounds heals 26-91 (avg 58.5)
SL5: Fire Snake, @L15+ 15-52 (avg 33.75 to each creature in a 60ft path)
SL6: (Empowered) Pyrotechnic Eruption, @L15+, over 4 rounds heals 41-143 (avg 92.25)
SL7: Temporary Resurrection, brings a creature that was dead for less than 48hrs back to life, but only for 24 hours.
SLA: At L15 gain the ability to cast Greater Restoration 1/day
SLA: At L20 free True-Resurrection on self 1/day.
Cleric/Oracle spells for Comparison: Note that these are touch spells
SL0: Stabilize, Restores NO hp, just stops dying
SL1: Cure Light Wounds, @L5+ heals 6-13hp (avg 9.5)
SL2: Cure Moderate Wounds, @L10+ heals 12-26hp (avg 19)
SL3: Cure Serious Wounds, @L15+ heals 18-39 hp (avg 28.5)
SL4: Cure Critical Wounds, @L20 heals 24-52 (avg 39)
SL5: Breath of Life, @L20 heals 25-60 (avg 42.5, and can raise the recently deceased)
SL6: Heal, @L15+ heals 150hp and removes most negative conditions.
SL7: Regenerate, healing and regrows severed body members.
SL7: Greater Restoration & Resurrection, restoring ability scores, and life respectively.
SL9: True Resurrection, remains not required to resurrect a dead creature
Seems like nice physical healing I think unicorn bloodline could add some of the condition removal. Being able to restore hp to full outside of combat will go a long way though.
There are a few other ways to temporarily boost your fire damage for either offense or healing. Blood havoc is one, and the feat flumefire rage is another.
Seems like nice physical healing I think unicorn bloodline could add some of the condition removal. Being able to restore hp to full outside of combat will go a long way though.
There are a few other ways to temporarily boost your fire damage for either offense or healing. Blood havoc is one, and the feat flumefire rage is another.
Many thanks!
I'm not sure how I missed the Unicorn bloodline, but adding Heal to the Sorcerer's known spells more than makes up for the extra damage/healing on fire spells from the Draconic bloodline.What do you think of the Crossblooded Archetype?
Only the Phoenix bloodline can get healing on a cantrip, but only the Unicorn bloodline can get the Heal spell which removes a plethora of conditions. By taking both I'm only losing 1 spell known per spell level (offset by the Human favored class bonus), and -2 to Will Saves (the Sorcerer's best save, which is offset by the Unicorn Bloodline's L3 power, Pure of Mind.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The crossblooded archetype is notably bad. First you lose a lot of spells known, and this also puts you a half-spell level behind other spellcasters. Which means you're a full spell level behind prepared spellcasters; you get 2nd level spells at 5th level for example.
The loss of lower-level spells known may be 'offset' by the human favored class bonus, but doing so means you have effectively lost your favored class bonus. A human non-crossblooded sorcerer gets those extra spells without losing one per level, or a kitsune can get a save DC bonus out of their FCB, etc.
Then of course you take a -2 penalty to your will save, which is annoying for a character who is unlikely to have a great wisdom score.
There are unusual and even unique things you can do with the crossblooded archetype, it's just they're seldom worth the very high cost.
shy slice
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What do you think of the Crossblooded Archetype?
I don't see to much of a problem with the Crossblooded Archetype in this instance. All you need is a fire spell and you can always use metamagic to boost a lower level spell into the higher level slots you have (even if you know 0 of those spells). Increased fire damage is still increased fire damage. Blood Intensity or Intensified spell is something I consider mandatory for a crossblooded Sorcerer.
I played around with the Unicorn and Phoenix crossblooded last night on Herolab and was pleasantly surprised at its potential. Good find.
|
if you are looking for unlimited out of combat healing in a ‘PFS clarifications do not apply’ context, I’d just use Boots of the Earth by itself and focus character resources on something more broadly useful.Page 24—A phoenix sorcerer's bloodline arcana only affects instantaneous spells whose spell level is 1 or higher.This doesn't work in Pathfinder Society play. It wouldn't work at my table either. Ask your GM to see how he feels. Explain that you have unlimited healing outside of combat. As long as your GM is ok with it, sounds great.
When I'm GMing I will not tolerate any sort of 'unlimited healing outside of combat' gimmick. Not a chance. I've seen the negative effects this sort of 'play with training wheels' approach have on the game and won't allow it again. It also has no place in PFS play, of course. I suspect some other GMs feel the same way.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Wands of cure light wounds are already so cheap, that past level 3, it may as well be unlimited healing outside of combat. Players are already resource limited by spells per day and other limited use class abilities. The party starting with full hit points every fight shouldn't be a concern.
Thanks for all of the advice! With it in mind, my updated build, submitted for critique is:
Human: (Favored Class bonus is an extra spell known per level)
Alternate Racial Trait: Unstoppable Magic
Trait 1: (Magic) Magical Lineage: Acid Splash
Trait 2: (Social) Adopted --> Pyromancer (Aasimar-Emberkin race trait)
Class: Sorcerer (Phoenix Bloodline)
L1 Feat: Elemental Spell (Fire)
-(Acid Splash is now a fire spell that deals 1d3+1 damage, or heals 1-2hp per casting, but it takes a full round action to cast)
L3 Feat: Toughness (for much needed hit points)
L5 Feat: Elemental Spell (Acid or Cold), (For when I come up against something immune to fire)
L7 Feat: Skill Focus (Perception)
Bloodline Feat: Improved Initiative
L9 Feat: Eldritch Heritage (Solar: Sunsight)
L11 Feat: Improved Eldritch Heritage (Solar: Cleansing Flame)
L13 Feat: Empower Spell
Bloodline Feat: Dodge
L15 Feat: Spell Penetration
L17 Feat: Greater Eldritch Heritage (Solar: Healing Fire)
L19 Feat: Greater Spell Penetration
Bloodline Feat: Elemental Focus (Fire)
Spells would include the previously mentioned (for fire damage/healing), as well as the Phoenix Bloodline spells, a couple summoning spells and a variety of utility spells.
Would I be correct in assuming that you each would have the same opinion of the L1 spell "Blood Money" as you have of the healing cantrip mentioned in this thread?
I'm not too fussed about healing being free, it gives me as a GM more freedom to hit full force. Blood money though is broken IMO. It's in the game to explain how someone isolated and without access to new resources was able to cast spells with material components and it breaks the game's economy if allowed on normal PCs.
Remember that wealth is power, so infinite wealth (e.g. by casting a mere 2nd level spell, masterwork transformation & selling the result) is infinite power.
I'm not too fussed about healing being free, it gives me as a GM more freedom to hit full force. Blood money though is broken IMO. It's in the game to explain how someone isolated and without access to new resources was able to cast spells with material components and it breaks the game's economy if allowed on normal PCs.
Remember that wealth is power, so infinite wealth (e.g. by casting a mere 2nd level spell, masterwork transformation & selling the result) is infinite power.
Really? Doesn't the nuance you applied to free healing also apply to spell component costs? Shouldn't loot along with level progression quickly outpace what could be earned from Masterwork Transformation, much like how in Elder Scrolls games, the stronger you get, the more expensive an item needs to be for the player to justify carrying it due to the limited carrying capacity (increasingly limited when a caster takes Str damage from using Blood money)?
Unless the point of the game is resource management, I don't think this should be significantly disruptive. If the game is about resource management, then a lot of spells like goodberry would cause the same issues as blood money.
Thanks for the feedback/dialogue. This is helpful.
Really? Doesn't the nuance you applied to free healing also apply to spell component costs? Shouldn't loot along with level progression quickly outpace what could be earned from Masterwork Transformation, much like how in Elder Scrolls games, the stronger you get, the more expensive an item needs to be for the player to justify carrying it due to the limited carrying capacity (increasingly limited when a caster takes Str damage from using Blood money)?
Unless the point of the game is resource management, I don't think this should be significantly disruptive. If the game is about resource management, then a lot of spells like goodberry would cause the same issues as blood money.
Thanks for the feedback/dialogue. This is helpful.
Infinite power on the PCs part isn't freedom for the GM to hit hard, it literally is infinite power. Infinite healing is just elimination of HP loss as resource management. And no, low Str doesn't limit how much you can spend on magic items, it just eliminates a couple of types of magic item from consideration and makes handy haversacks mandatory. There are a lot of lightweight magic items in PF.
And while the GM can say that there's a limit to how many masterwork weapons you can sell at even half price, masterwork transformation's not the end of the shenanigans to make money from blood money - it's just the beginning.
Infinite power on the PCs part isn't freedom for the GM to hit hard, it literally is infinite power. Infinite healing is just elimination of HP loss as resource management. And no, low Str doesn't limit how much you can spend on magic items, it just eliminates a couple of types of magic item from consideration and makes handy haversacks mandatory. There are a lot of lightweight magic items in PF.
And while the GM can say that there's a limit to how many masterwork weapons you can sell at even half price, masterwork transformation's not the end of the shenanigans to make money from blood money - it's just the beginning.
"Infinite power" isn't sounding right to me. Over an average person's life, they eat a theoretically unlimited amount of food, which is unlimited calories, making it theoretically infinite energy. But obviously no one has infinite energy to use, so that theoretical condition doesn't reflect reality.
I think the social contract between the GM and Players should be enough to prevent this from being abused, provided expectations are laid out and agreed to at Session Zero. The players should trust the GM to give them opportunities to get cool stuff, and in return play their characters as people, not munchkins who put life on hold while they farm gold with a merchant exploit.
Also, the Game Master controls Supply (of things the players would spend money on) and Demand (for anything the players want to sell), so it shouldn't be hard for a game master to head off an item-creation/enhancement exploit with the story to prevent the players from breaking the system.
Take Gunsmithing, make 1000gp in black powder for 100 gp. sell powder for 500gp. 400gp profit per day, no magic involved.
Anything that takes wealth out of the GMs hands is dangerous. If the GM feeds the party enough treasure to break their characters its his fault. If players are trying to use corner cases to exploit the system the GM need to politely but firmly say its bad for the game, so no.
Not that I'm against a little advantage, but everyone looking to get free gold always dreams big even when they say they aren't going to abuse it...they will.
If you're able to sell 1,000gp worth of gunpowder per day in a city, even at half-price... you're probably supplying a rebellion, since any military that would use that much gunpowder would have their own stable supplier. If you're funding a rebellion, then it's likely to be traced back to you when they make their move. Alternatively, if it's for competing gangs, then they'd each take offense at you selling to the competition, so they'd turn on you too. And legitimate merchants aren't going to buy more product than they can sell, and it's doubtful that the general population would be buying any significant amount of gunpowder in most settings where guns are rare or absent.
My position is that even if the players break try to break the game economy, all of the power is still in the GM's hands to resolve whatever the players do.
The GM can certainly control supply and demand, but most find it too much work to place severe controls on supply of magic items at least. And it can be hard to justify controlling either supply or demand once the PCs are able to go to a major trading city.
Infinite may be too strong. But not by much; for 3rd level characters 150 gp/day with near-zero investment/potential loss if unable to sell, and producing goods which are widely valued and salable (unlike gunpowder) becomes a huge amount really fast. And there are more tricks for higher levels which pull in money even faster.
If there is a social contract to limit blood money to replacing material components for adventuring spells only (and if tricks like magic jar aren't involved) then OK, the spell isn't a big deal. On that point we agree.
...
If there is a social contract to limit blood money to replacing material components for adventuring spells only (and if tricks like magic jar aren't involved) then OK, the spell isn't a big deal. On that point we agree.
Isn't agreement great!
But back on topic, Any thoughts on this Trait & Feat selection for a Phoenix Sorcerer? (it uses Eldritch Heritage to borrow healing from the Solar bloodline instead of the Cross-blooded archetype to borrow healing from the Unicorn bloodline)
Trait 1: (Magic) Magical Lineage: Acid Splash
Trait 2: (Social) Adopted --> Pyromancer (Aasimar-Emberkin race trait)
L1 Feat: Elemental Spell (Fire)
-(Acid Splash is now a fire spell that deals 1d3+1 damage, or heals 1-2hp per casting, but it takes a full round action to cast)
L3 Feat: Toughness (for much needed hit points)
L5 Feat: Elemental Spell (Acid or Cold), (For when I come up against something immune to fire)
L7 Feat: Skill Focus (Perception)
Bloodline Feat: Improved Initiative
L9 Feat: Eldritch Heritage (Solar: Sunsight)
L11 Feat: Improved Eldritch Heritage (Solar: Cleansing Flame)
L13 Feat: Empower Spell
Bloodline Feat: Dodge
L15 Feat: Spell Penetration
L17 Feat: Greater Eldritch Heritage (Solar: Healing Fire)
L19 Feat: Greater Spell Penetration
Bloodline Feat: Elemental Focus (Fire)
Dodge isn't a lot of use in double-digit levels unless you've otherwise spent a lot of resources on AC, or if you're planning to build on it. I'd suggest getting quicken spell for the bonus feat at level 13 instead. It's a good time to get that feat, when you can quicken 2nd level spells like mirror image or see invisibility, and 1st level ones like shield, sure casting or true strike.
Otherwise it looks fine to me.