I have completed the preliminary versions of all of the sheets. I'm going to go over each one more time, hopefully catching any errors (I'm pretty sure that some are going to sneak by me). They'll be in .pdf format.
I expect to post these to the BGG as soon as I finish reviewing them. I'll post the links to each here once they are approved at the BGG. I'll also post the updated version of the spreadsheet. I found a few errors (and all of the annoying times that I left "no change" hand size cells empty) and entered a few notes. There are also a few notes that I added. I'll also post summaries of which cards have yellow highlights (issues still up for discussion/decision by the developers) as well as those with images that aren't covered by the CUP.
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An index of the links to the sheets will be included in a subsequent post once they are all approved at the BGG.
I haven’t updated the online version of the spreadsheet because Google.docs hates me (it’s far more likely that I’m being dumb, but it’s easier to blame it on Google ;) ) and it will take too long to update the sheet manually. I found a few errors from the previous version of the spreadsheet – mostly missing feat boxes, missing hand size feats, and empty hand size entries on the converted versions. There may be a few updates that I missed in my effort to get the sheets finished quickly.
In an effort to speed things up (I’ve been embarrassingly slow in getting these done), I’m crowd-sourcing the final review. The initial versions are preliminary, but they’re good enough for use. The final versions will be based on any corrections that need to be made (despite my best efforts, I’m pretty sure that some errors have snuck past me), revisions to the format (see below), and any guidance from the developers.
These sheets were created in Microsoft Word (360) and saved in .pdf format. If you view them in Adobe (and perhaps in other pdf viewers) you’ll see small artifacts in the Deck List section where vertical borders would appear. These only show up on the computer monitor, but haven’t shown up on any print versions in my tests. While I tried to get the appearance as close as possible to that of the official sheets in the Core set, issues of text legibility/readability forced me to make things a bit bigger. While they remain close to the official sheets in terms of appearance, the small formatting changes and the disclaimers at the bottom [should] make it clear that these are unofficial.
If you see any errors on any of the sheets, please list them here so that I can correct them.
The following sheets have silhouette placeholders instead of the portraits because the character images aren’t allowed by the Community Use Policy (i.e., the images aren’t part of the package and/or haven’t been depicted in Paizo’s online blog posts):
- Ahmotep (Mummy’s Mask AP character)
- Arueshalae (Wrath of the Righteous AP character)
- Bikendi Otongu (Skull & Shackles AP role)
- Channa Ti (Mummy’s Mask AP character)
- Mnesoset (Season of Plundered Tombs role – no image found online)
- Nok-Nok (Kingmaker Promo card character)*
- Simoun (Mummy’s Mask AP character)
* Note that I’ve used the Kingmaker AP logo from the Community Use package because the logo on the card isn’t covered/allowed under the CUP.
The following sheets use only the plain text AP/deck names because the logos aren’t included in the Community Use package:
- Mnesoset (Season of Plundered Tombs role)
- Occult Adventures 1 class deck (Estra, Meligaster, Rivani)
- Occult Adventures 2 class deck (Erasmus, Mavaro, Yoon)
- Ultimate Combat add-on deck (Hayato)
- Ultimate Equipment add-on deck (Reiko)
- Ultimate Intrigue add-on deck (Aric/The Red Raven)
- Ultimate Magic add-on deck (Enora)
- Ultimate Wilderness add-on deck (Zova)
As far as I know, all of the other portraits and AP/deck logos are allowed by the CUP. If I’m mistaken about any, please let me know here so that I can fix the sheets.
There are sheets for all of the characters/roles on the sheet, including those are still marked for discussion (red). The issues up for discussion are highlighted in yellow on the relevant sheets, and each of these will require developer guidance:
BIKENDI OTONGU (Skull & Shackles AP role)
This role isn’t covered in the Conversion Guide. The issue up for discussion is updating the proficiencies, especially whether or not to add Arcane. I’ve included Arcane on the sheet based on the precedent of the other characters for which this proficiency was added. As a special role that comes up during the adventure path, however, the loss of the Light Armors proficiency doesn’t result in a hand size feat since this role doesn’t have any feats.
COGSNAP (Alchemist CD)
The last power on the Bloodbomber role uses the “freely” verbiage discussed here (proposed earlier in the discussion), and highlighted in yellow on the sheet. The other version of the wording is on the spreadsheet in case we need to revert to it.
FEIYA (Witch CD)
A role on the Beast-Bonder role is highlighted yellow although it currently shows the wording from the Core Conversion Guide. The outstanding issue is Slacker2010’s proposed wording.
SEONI (Wrath of the Righteous)
This is the lone holdout from the proposal to add the recovery pile to some characters. While the proposal was struck down, Chad Brown mentioned that he was considering a variant of the proposal for this character. Nothing further was said on the issue, so I haven’t included the proposed addition on the sheet (i.e., the sheet says what it should). I’ve left this marked for discussion in case there is any further word. The power remains highlighted in yellow on the sheet, however, just in case there is an official change (the final version won’t be highlighted).
There are a few formatting issues that are up for discussion. Ideally, I’d like to get a consensus within a week or two so that I can implement any changes in the final versions.
I’ve used a green color that matches as closely as possible that used for the character cards in the Core set. There was some discussion in the initial reviews about using different colors since the Core set uses a green and the Curse of the Crimson Throne uses a maroon. However, I didn’t want to be chasing colors around in an effort to use a different color from whatever Paizo/Lone Shark decide to use in subsequent sets – I want to use a single color for all of these sheets, and it will be the same color that I use on the template and any homegrown characters I come up with. I personally prefer the green, but the consensus might be that a blue (matching the blue used by the legacy sheets) would be better.
One of my efforts to keep these from looking too official was to change the color of the swirl at the top from the brown that is used on both the Core and Curse of the Crimson Throne character sheets to a green that matches the character portrait frame. I might change both the swirl and the portrait from to match the color of the rest of the formatting.
The choices are the current green or the legacy blue, based on consensus (unless the developers provide guidance, which will override our opinions).
The current font size is 10 pt, with 3 pts between lines. This is as close as my eyeballs can get to the official sheets, allowing for legibility/readability and content area. There is at least one sheet that has so much text that I had to reduce that one to 9.5 pt font, retaining the 3 pts between lines. If the 3 pt line spacing isn’t enough (i.e., if it’s difficult to visually separate the different powers), I can change the font size to 9.5 pts and increase the line spacing (I’ll start with 4 pts, increasing up to 5 pts or 6 pts if necessary). I’ll determine this using the sheet that currently has the 9.5 pt font, figuring out which line spacing works in the current text box without coming overlapping with or too close to the bottom text boxes.
The plain text name was added after the initial review because the deck logos aren’t universally understood. Also, there are some decks whose logos can’t be used (e.g., none of the “Ultimate” add-on decks’ logos can be used, nor can the Occult Adventures class deck logos). I included them on all of the sheets, including those whose logos include text (e.g., the adventure paths, the Hell’s Vengeance CDs).
Do we need the plain text name for those decks whose logos include text? Or is that redundant?
If Paizo ever adds any of the characters/logos to the Community Use Package, I’ll update the sheets. Similarly, if future updates occur to the FAQs and/or the Core Conversion Guide, I’ll make those updates to the sheets, too.
Once the sheets are finalized, they’ll be added to the Community Use Registry. I will probably create a new topic for the final version just so that people don’t have to search through 8+ pages of discussion to find the actual links. I’ll also finalize the online version of the spreadsheet at that time.
As far as providing a template goes, the one I provide will be based on the final version. Unfortunately, the licenses for the special fonts don’t allow me to provide those, so the template version will change some fonts. I’ll include instructions on which areas use those special fonts in case anyone wants to purchase them in order to get their versions closer to the ones I’ve made. Another potential outcome of this is that the sheets might not look correct to other people if their pdf viewer can’t read the special fonts and converts them into something else. If I can embed the special fonts into the files (both in terms of what the font licenses allow and my feeble brain’s ability to figure out how to actually embed fonts), I’ll do that.
Thanks in advance for your feedback.
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I am really excited for these to be downloadable. I appreciate all the work you put into it.
1. You're not living up (down?) to your name. ;)
2. Thank you. It was a team effort, though - not possible without everyone that participated in the discussion.The preliminary versions of the sheets are now available at the Board Game Geek. Each is attached to the product it supports (e.g., the characters from the Mummy’s Mask Adventure Path can be found at the Mummy’s Mask Base Set page). The characters released as promotional cards are included in the base sets (e.g., Tup is in the Rise of the Runelords Base Set file).
The links below will take you directly to the files rather than to the product pages.
Rise of the Runelords
Skull & Shackles (includes Bikendi Otongu special role)
Wrath of the Righteous
Mummy’s Mask
Alchemist
Barbarian
Bard
Cleric
Druid
Fighter
Gunslinger
Hunter
Inquisitor
Magus
Monk
Oracle
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue
Sorcerer
Summoner
Warpriest
Witch
Wizard
Goblins Burn!
Goblins Fight!
Hell’s Vengeance 1
Hell’s Vengeance 2
Occult Adventures 1
Occult Adventures 2
Pathfinder Tales
Ultimate Combat (Hayato – Samurai)
Ultimate Equipment (Reiko – Ninja)
Ultimate Intrigue (Aric/The Red Raven – Vigilante)
Ultimate Magic (Enora – Arcanist)
Ultimate Wilderness ( Zova – Shifter)
Nok-Nok (Pathfinder Kingmaker Promo)
Mnesoset (Season of Plundered Tombs special role – under Mummy’s Mask Base Set)
I’ll take feedback from these files and incorporate them into the final version.
I'm on my first review. This one consists of checking the race/class traits, the skills, and the deck list. So far I've gone through the AP sheets (minus Reepazo who is not included in the legacy MM sheets). I need to add the flavor text to this review, but haven't done that for the AP sheets yet. Basically, this review is for everything that isn't on the spreadsheet. After I go back and review the flavor text on the AP sheets, I'll go through the decks for the same material. I have identified and corrected the following errors on my working versions:
Harsk - removed extra blessing card feat
Seelah - fixed Melee skill (was "Melee: Strength +S" , changed to "+2")
Adowyn - fixed her deck list
Crowe - first Ally card feat changed from "2" to "1"
Ekkie - removed extra blessing card feat
Ahmotep - fixed her deck list
Drelm - fixed his deck list
The Seltyiel sheets are using the original iconic artwork when he was portrayed as an Eldritch Knight, which is in the CUP. The various official PACG cards, however, use his iconic Magus image from Ultimate Magic, which is not in the CUP, though a smaller version has been posted in a blog. Since that version is small, however, the resolution isn't good for the size of the portraits on the character sheets. Is it possible for that image to also be added to the CUP? Personally, I prefer the original image. However, players that aren't familiar with it, only being familiar with his portrayal on the S&S and Magus CD cards, might be thrown off by the difference in imagery.
Once I finish this stage of my review, I'll start looking at the actual conversion material (the hand sizes, proficiencies, and powers).
Before I started the review, there was the faint hope in the back of my head that I'd somehow gotten everything correct the first time through. And then reality slapped me in the face.
I completed the first part of my review (race/class traits, skills, and deck lists) of the sheets for the various decks.
I decided to save the review of the flavor text for last. As fun and important as the flavor text is, it's not really important for game play. My priority is getting the rules squared away.
The following additional errors were identified. They have all been corrected on the working versions of the sheets and will be available once I get the final versions completed.
Lem - Arcane skill has been corrected to Arcane: Charisma +2
Seoni - Knowledge skill has been corrected to Knowledge: Intelligence +2
Nyctessa - Arcane skill has been corrected to Arcane: Intelligence +2
I've begun reviewing the information on the spreadsheet now (hand size, proficiencies, powers).
Summoner Class Deck
Zetha - Gloomwalker role
[] - When you play Ahtez for your combat check, add 1d6 ([] 1d6).(second checkbox should be 2d6)
Thanks! I've made the correction (I've included it in the listing below, too, but you caught it first).
I completed the second part of my review (hand size, proficiencies, powers) of the sheets. The following errors were identified. They have all been corrected on the working versions of the sheets and will be available once I get the final versions completed.
Seoni, Element Master role - The mastered traits were centered in the column for clarity.
Shardra, Visionary role - Added "while at your location." to the end of the last power.
Estra, Ectoplasmatist role - Changed "our" to "your" on first role power.
Estra, Speaker to the Dead role - Removed extra period at end of last power.
Cogsnap, Bloodbomber role - Corrected "or" in first role power to "your" (□ On (□ your combat check or) YOUR Ranged combat check, you may discard any number of Alchemical items (□ or any items); for each item discarded, add 1d6 and the item’s traits to the check."
Damiel, Miscibility Master role - Changed "you're" in second power to "into": "During recovery, you may recharge Alchemical boons (□ or shuffle them into your deck) instead of banishing them. On your check to recharge a non-Attack spell, you automatically succeed."
Lini, Menhir Savant role - Added power from Core Conversion Guide.
Seltyiel - Changed "the deck" in third power to "your deck."
Athnul, Monk of the Ki Fist role - Changed "blessings" to "blessing" in the last power feat "(□ You may recharge any such blessing you play instead of discarding it.)"
Rivani, Psychic Duelist role - Capitalized "Sign" in last power (it's a trait).
Wu Shen, Prey Stalker role - The "and banish it" power feat was missing from the third power.
Alase - First power ("After you play an Attack spell, bury it.") was missing.
Balazar, Teratomancer role - Added "a" to first role power feat ("□ You may evade a summoned card (□ or A monster) you encounter.")
Zetha, Gloomwalker role - Fixed 2d6 power feat in first role power (identified by Maelwys0 above).
Reiko, Ninjutsu Master role - Removed rogue comma in third role power.
Aric, Infiltrator role - Added "...then flip this card..." to first power.
Amli - Power feat in second base power fixed "...(□ or card of A type of your choice)..."
Feiya, Beast Bonder role - Wording of second power corrected "...you may recharge a spell to shuffle the CARD into a random..." (it changes from "monster" to "card" in this power because a power feat in this role allows the power to also affect an ally).
Kasmir - Punctuation in second power feat of first power corrected comma to semicolon after 'acquire': "(□ If the discarded card is a spell, you may attempt its checks to acquire; if you succeed, recharge it instead.)"
Raheli, Gravewalker role - Hand size power feat corrected from 7 to 6.
Darago, Soul Warden role - Last power corrected "add" (was "ad").
In addition to the corrections above, which were pretty cut and dried errors based on the spreadsheet, some additional possible changes occurred to me during the review.
Harsk, Sniper role - "□ When you start your turn with no cards in your hand, you may draw 1 (□ 2) card(s)." Should this be re-worded as the following?
"□ When you start your turn with no cards in your hand, you may draw 1 card (□ 2 cards)."
Alahazra, Tempest role - "On your Attack combat check, add 2 (□ 3) (□ 4). (□ You may also add the (□ Electricity or) Fire trait.)" Should this be re-worded as the following?
"On your Attack combat check, add 2 (□ 3) (□ 4). (□ You may also add the Fire trait) (□ or Electricity trait)."
Seltyiel - "On your combat check, choose a weapon that doesn’t have the 2-Handed trait and an Attack spell..." Should this be re-worded as the following?
"On your combat check, choose a non-2-Handed weapon and an Attack spell..."
Meliski, Gambler role - "□ When you (□ or another local character) would fail a check by 1 (□ 2), you may bury a card from your hand (□ or discards) to succeed." Should this be "...(□ OR 2)..." instead? The "or" allows the player to choose rather than being restricted to 2 once the power feat is taken.
Lini, Menhir Savant role - Instead of the new Core Conversion Guide power, could role powers simply change "closed" to "Wild" (the trait)?
Lesath, both roles - Power feats that gain the Divine skill should be re-worded to also give the Divine proficiency.
Dervish: "Gain the skill Survival (□ and Divine): Wisdom +2." should be "Gain the skill Survival: Wisdom +2. (Gain the skill Divine: Wisdom +2, and you are proficient with Divine.)"
Sword Dancer: "Gain the skill Perception (□ and Divine): Wisdom +2." should be "Gain the skill Perception: Wisdom +2. (Gain the skill Divine: Wisdom +2, and you are proficient with Divine.)"
Amaryllis - Should the first power be re-worded as the following?
"When you would fail an Arcane (□ or any) check, you may bury a card to reroll."
This might have to be tweaked to support the power feats of each of the roles.
Kasmir, Hearthcaller role - Would the first role power also temporarily gain the Divine proficiency?
My next step is to go over formatting things. One thing I noticed about halfway through the initial creation of the sheets was that the spacing after the power feat boxes was a bit off. I corrected the spacing on all subsequent sheets; now I'm going through and fixing the rest. I also noticed that the alignment of some of the powers is slightly off, which I'll be fixing, too. After that, I'll tackle the flavor text.
And then I'll do everything all over again.
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I'm going to provide answers for the following questions as much as possible. Any that I can't make a determination on, I'll call out and will ask Keith for his opinion on.
QUESTIONS
RISE OF THE RUNELORDS
Harsk, Sniper role - "□ When you start your turn with no cards in your hand, you may draw 1 (□ 2) card(s)." Should this be re-worded as the following?
"□ When you start your turn with no cards in your hand, you may draw 1 card (□ 2 cards)."
Yes, those are equivalent.
SKULL & SHACKLESAlahazra, Tempest role - "On your Attack combat check, add 2 (□ 3) (□ 4). (□ You may also add the (□ Electricity or) Fire trait.)" Should this be re-worded as the following?
"On your Attack combat check, add 2 (□ 3) (□ 4). (□ You may also add the Fire trait) (□ or Electricity trait)."
Agreed, re-wording is better and still equivalent.
Seltyiel - "On your combat check, choose a weapon that doesn’t have the 2-Handed trait and an Attack spell..." Should this be re-worded as the following?"On your combat check, choose a non-2-Handed weapon and an Attack spell..."
This one is a bit more ambiguous, mostly because of having to have two hyphens in it. I would leave it unchanged.
BARD CLASS DECKMeliski, Gambler role - "□ When you (□ or another local character) would fail a check by 1 (□ 2), you may bury a card from your hand (□ or discards) to succeed." Should this be "...(□ OR 2)..." instead? The "or" allows the player to choose rather than being restricted to 2 once the power feat is taken.
Technically, this is a change, but I can't imagine that the intent was to ONLY be able to use it when you fail by 2 after the feat. I am inclined to say the "or" should be there, but I'll check with Keith.
DRUID CLASS DECKLini, Menhir Savant role - Instead of the new Core Conversion Guide power, could role powers simply change "closed" to "Wild" (the trait)?
I would probably stick with the Core Conversion Guide power, since that's an official source.
ROGUE CLASS DECKLesath, both roles - Power feats that gain the Divine skill should be re-worded to also give the Divine proficiency.
Agreed, that's consistent with the Core Conversion guide.
Dervish: "Gain the skill Survival (□ and Divine): Wisdom +2." should be "Gain the skill Survival: Wisdom +2. (Gain the skill Divine: Wisdom +2, and you are proficient with Divine.)"
Yes, also consistent with the conversion guide.
Sword Dancer: "Gain the skill Perception (□ and Divine): Wisdom +2." should be "Gain the skill Perception: Wisdom +2. (Gain the skill Divine: Wisdom +2, and you are proficient with Divine.)"
Yep.
SORCERER CLASS DECKAmaryllis - Should the first power be re-worded as the following?
"When you would fail an Arcane (□ or any) check, you may bury a card to reroll."
This might have to be tweaked to support the power feats of each of the roles.
Yep, that's equivalent.
WITCH CLASS DECKKasmir, Hearthcaller role - Would the first role power also temporarily gain the Divine proficiency?
Yep.
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I also got confirmation that Meliski's power is meant to not shoehorn you into only using it on a 2 after the power feat. Keith confirmed the correct way to list this power is:
□ When you (□ or another local character) would fail a check by 1 (or □ 2), you may bury a card from your hand (□ or discards) to succeed.
Thanks!
You should disregard the question/suggestion for Menhir Savant Lini. I forgot to remove it from the post. It was an idea I had during my review, but as you identified, it's way outside the scope of this project. I meant to suggest it outside of the project.
I'm going through right now and making some small formatting changes. The first round of reviews (back in May/June) identified some areas where the format could be improved. While I implemented those improvements, I didn't do so in the best way, which left some small formatting errors from inefficiencies. I'm fixing those now. In addition, I'm fixing the font issues. The original version used the Dax font (used in the legacy cards). When I changed to the Good OT Condensed font, the spaces after the check boxes remained in that font, which is slightly wider than the Good OT Condensed font.
I also made a command decision on the deck indicators. Those logos that include text won't include the plain text name below (e.g., the APs, Hell's Vengeance, Pathfinder Tales). The plain text name will only be used for the class/character decks that don't have text in their icons (e.g., Bard) and those decks for which the logo isn't allowed under the CUP (Occult Adventures, the "Ultimate" add-on decks). I also increased the size of the AP logos and Pathfinder Tales icons slightly.
Once I'm done fixing the formatting issues that I've described, I'll work on the text changes that cartmanbeck replied to above. And I'll conduct another review of the sheets to be sure that I didn't introduce any errors in the formatting corrections (my initial method involved deleting and re-typing - until I figured out that changing the font wouldn't inadvertently change the text boxes).
Once all of that is done, the only thing left will be fixing the swirly images (top one to brown, adjusting the green of the portrait frame). In the meantime, additional feedback, especially if there are errors that I've missed, is welcome.
On a slightly related note (well, unrelated but it probably shares the same legals), has there been or is anyone planning to update the old adventure path cards to have the robust story of the Core storybook design? It would obviously take more writing skills than just updating card rule text, and I'm not sure how it could be legally distributed if not made by Paizo.
I don't know if anyone has undertaken the effort recently, but prior to the Core Set, Autoduelist created adventure guides for each of the APs (working with someone else - Kittenhoarder. These aren't exactly like the Core storybook, but they provide much of the storyline for each AP (that interpreted/developed by Autoduelist/Kittenhoarder, that is - apparently the Rise of the Runelords storyline from the Pathfinder Adventures game was slightly different from that which Autoduelist came up with in his adventure guide).
.
Rise of the Runelords
Skull & Shackles
Wrath of the Righteous
Mummy's Mask
The links above take you to the file pages at the Board Game Geek. There are corresponding discussions for each here at the PACG Homebrew and House Rules section.
Much thanks. It makes me wonder what's left to bring the old content nearly up to the current (2nd Ed) format. Conversions of the scenarios instructions themselves?
I've implemented the changes (responses provided by cartmanbeck) from earlier.
The Harsk Sniper power was adjusted to "(□ or 2 cards)."
The Meliski Gambler power was adjusted to "(□ or 2)" in spite of the reponse to phrase it as "(or □ 2)" because I can't think of a single instance where the check box wasn't the first thing to appear in the parenthesis for any powers. When checked, the check box indicates that everything that follows is parsed into the power.
The Kasmir power actually applies to a base power and both roles have a derivation of that power. I included "for the check" although I'm unsure about it:
"□ On your check against a Healing card, you may recharge a spell to gain the skill Divine: Intelligence +0 and you are proficient with Divine ."
I think the intent is pretty clear that the skill/proficiency are only gained for the duration of the check (the "On your check" portion of the power), but I can't get over the urge to pre-empt some rules-lawyering. It's probably unnecessary, but I'm looking for confirmation before I remove the ending "for the check" wording.
Note that the previous Kasmir wording was from the Core Conversion Guide, so it would help if this change was implemented therein (unless the developers don't want this change).
Seltyiel - "On your combat check, choose a weapon that doesn’t have the 2-Handed trait and an Attack spell..." Should this be re-worded as the following?
"On your combat check, choose a non-2-Handed weapon and an Attack spell..."
Counterarguments:
We've used the "non-2-Handed" verbiage for one of Mummy's Mask Zadim's powers:
"On a local combat check, you may discard (□ or recharge) a non-2-Handed weapon to add your Stealth."
The basic pattern in Core Set official rules is to use "non-[Trait]"
Core Kyra, Dawnseeker role:
"□ On your check to recharge a Divine non-Attack spell, you automatically succeed. (□ Then you may shuffle your deck.)"
Marcus Enderin:
"□ On any combat check at a non-Underground location, you may bury to add 2d8."
From a consistency perspective, the model would be to re-word Skull & Shackles Seltyiel's powers to the "non-2-Handed" phrasing. If the double hyphen phrasing is that confusing, then we need to change Mummy's Mask Zadim's power.
I never noticed before that Ranzak's roles don't include flavor text. At first I thought it was just an error on the Skull & Shackles character sheets file, but then I checked the cards and confirmed that they were missing there, too.
I think that needs to be fixed.
Naturally, it would be great if the developers gave us official flavor text, but they're probably busy working on that stuff that they're not telling us about. ;)
Is anyone interested in coming up with some flavor text for the roles? The roles are Kleptomaniac (he takes stuff, including stuff from other characters) and Wrecker (he's good at defeating barriers and henchmen, among other abilities).
Example flavor text from the other Goblin roles...
Ak (Goblins Fight!)
Chief: Goblins check to see who their current chief is a couple times a day.
Survivor: Nobody kills a nobody.
Chuffy (Goblins Fight!)
Master of Toads: Pretty much all goblin jokes end, "A frog like that, you don't eat all at once."
Shanker: The cost of having ribs is having the space between the ribs.
Ekkie (Wrath of the Righteous)
Guttersnipe: Clean out your gutters, or get sniped.
Poodlekiller: Pretty much guaranteed to have rabies.
Mogmurch (Goblins Burn!)
Firesolver: Fire's job is to replace all other problems with fire.
Tinderfoot: If you must keep your matches between your toes, keep them right side up.
Poog (Goblins Burn!)
Hash Slinger: If it walks, wriggles, or flies, it boils.
Leecher: Trust me, I'm kind of a doctor.
Reepazo (Mummy's Mask)
Beetle Borker: Don't chew your beetles, kids, or you won't get to feel them crawl back up your esophagus.
Verminator: Six legs good, more legs gooder.
Reta (Goblins Fight!)
Birdcruncher: Best to keep some critters in your pocket for the slow moments of the day.
Runaway Bride: You'll always remember this day, because you haven't ever washed the dress.
Tup (Rise of the Runelords)
Bale-Flame of Naughtiness: If you are not currently on fire, wait 5 minutes.
Prince of Darkness: Darkness hands out princedoms like candy these days.
Zibini (Goblins Burn!)
The Great: I see your future! It's a poke in the eye!
And Gobbly: Crystal ball makes a good bashing thing too.
Now I don't claim to be an expert on Goblins, but everything I know about the little blighters tells me that none of them enjoy not having something that everyone else has. So let's set Ranzak up with some nifty flavor text.
eddiephlash made the following suggestion elsewhere. I'm re-posting it here because this is something that, if implemented, is relevant here.
Koren (from the fun Paladin class deck) has a power on his Unflagging Champion role:
☐ At the start or end of your turn, if a bane is displayed next to the deck of another character at your location, you may display it next to your deck instead.In the days of RotR and Skulls, there were some banes that got displayed by characters, notably various flavors of Haunts and those with the Curse trait. In Mummy's Mask (which came out after this Class Deck), such effects on cards were all but removed in favor of the Scourge table. In a post-Core world, this idea was mainly replaced by Scourge cards .
The power as written seems mostly useless, except for the small handful of cards that it applies to. Would it be possible to have this power changed to work against Scourges? That seems in the spirit of the original power, both in function and flavor.
Something like:
☐ At the start or end of your turn, if a local character has a bane displayed or is suffering a Scourge, you may display the bane or suffer the Scourge instead.
I agree with the principle of the suggestion. Improved Core conversion wording would be:
□ At the start or end of your turn, if another local character has a bane displayed next to their deck or is suffering a scourge, you may display the bane next to your deck or suffer the scourge instead.
On other character sheets and the rulebook, "scourge" is not capitalized. Also, while not of significant meaning in the context of this power, the legacy wording "another character at your location" converts to "another local character" in Core.
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eddiephlash made the following suggestion elsewhere. I'm re-posting it here because this is something that, if implemented, is relevant here.
Koren (from the fun Paladin class deck) has a power on his Unflagging Champion role:
☐ At the start or end of your turn, if a bane is displayed next to the deck of another character at your location, you may display it next to your deck instead.In the days of RotR and Skulls, there were some banes that got displayed by characters, notably various flavors of Haunts and those with the Curse trait. In Mummy's Mask (which came out after this Class Deck), such effects on cards were all but removed in favor of the Scourge table. In a post-Core world, this idea was mainly replaced by Scourge cards .
The power as written seems mostly useless, except for the small handful of cards that it applies to. Would it be possible to have this power changed to work against Scourges? That seems in the spirit of the original power, both in function and flavor.
Something like:
☐ At the start or end of your turn, if a local character has a bane displayed or is suffering a Scourge, you may display the bane or suffer the Scourge instead.I agree with the principle of the suggestion. Improved Core conversion wording would be:
□ At the start or end of your turn, if another local character has a bane displayed next to their deck or is suffering a scourge, you may display the bane next to your deck or suffer the scourge instead.On...
I 100% agree that this is how the power SHOULD work, but I think it's enough of an alteration that I'd want developer buy-in for sure before we ran with it. For the moment, I would probably not change this one... but I'll talk to Keith.
Yes, the suggestion for Koren is definitely deep in the developer territory.
I've changed the swirl at the top of the sheet to brown, matching that used on the official sheets. I also changed the color of the portrait frame and frame's internal swirls to the same green used on the rest of the sheet. The frame isn't exactly the same shape - there were some irregularities in the curve; so I drew a new frame that's close. I wasn't smart enough to save the silhouette so I made a new one (and used filters to make it artsy). Lastly, I've updated S&S Seltyiel's power as above.
I've made corrections for all of the errors that have been identified so far. There has been no feedback at the BGG, so hopefully this means that we've found all of the errors.
I'm going to go through the rules and flavor text one more time to ensure that everything is correct.
More importantly, here's a recap of the issues that remain open for discussion and developer input:
BIKENDI OTONGU (Skull & Shackles AP role)
This role isn’t covered in the Conversion Guide. The issue up for discussion is updating the proficiencies, especially whether or not to add Arcane. I’ve included Arcane on the sheet based on the precedent of the other characters for which this proficiency was added. As a special role that comes up during the adventure path, however, the loss of the Light Armors proficiency doesn’t result in a hand size feat since this role doesn’t have any feats.COGSNAP (Alchemist CD)
The last power on the Bloodbomber role uses the “freely” verbiage discussed here (proposed earlier in the discussion), and highlighted in yellow on the sheet. The other version of the wording is on the spreadsheet in case we need to revert to it.FEIYA (Witch CD)
A role on the Beast-Bonder role is highlighted yellow although it currently shows the wording from the Core Conversion Guide. The outstanding issue is Slacker2010’s proposed wording.SEONI (Wrath of the Righteous)
This is the lone holdout from the proposal to add the recovery pile to some characters. While the proposal was struck down, Chad Brown mentioned that he was considering a variant of the proposal for this character. Nothing further was said on the issue, so I haven’t included the proposed addition on the sheet (i.e., the sheet says what it should). I’ve left this marked for discussion in case there is any further word. The power remains highlighted in yellow on the sheet, however, just in case there is an official change (the final version won’t be highlighted).
The default for each will be that anything for which the developers don't provide guidance will be left with the conversion wording vice what we think it should be.
Aside from that, I'll hold off a bit longer to see if any more images/logos are added to the CUP, in which case I'll update the appropriate sheets. A recap of the images/logos:
The following sheets have silhouette placeholders instead of the portraits because the character images aren’t allowed by the Community Use Policy (i.e., the images aren’t part of the package and/or haven’t been depicted in Paizo’s online blog posts):
- Ahmotep (Mummy’s Mask AP character)
- Arueshalae (Wrath of the Righteous AP character)
- Bikendi Otongu (Skull & Shackles AP role)
- Channa Ti (Mummy’s Mask AP character)
- Mnesoset (Season of Plundered Tombs role – no image found online)
- Nok-Nok (Kingmaker Promo card character)*
- Simoun (Mummy’s Mask AP character)* Note that I’ve used the Kingmaker AP logo from the Community Use package because the logo on the card isn’t covered/allowed under the CUP.
The following sheets use only the plain text AP/deck names because the logos aren’t included in the Community Use package:
- Mnesoset (Season of Plundered Tombs role)
- Occult Adventures 1 class deck (Estra, Meligaster, Rivani)
- Occult Adventures 2 class deck (Erasmus, Mavaro, Yoon)
- Ultimate Combat add-on deck (Hayato)
- Ultimate Equipment add-on deck (Reiko)
- Ultimate Intrigue add-on deck (Aric/The Red Raven)
- Ultimate Magic add-on deck (Enora)
- Ultimate Wilderness add-on deck (Zova)
I went through the Community Use policy and packages again, so I'm fairly confident I haven't used anything inappropriately (which will only make it more embarrassing if anything is used inappropriately).
The finish line is in sight.
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I went through the Community Use policy and packages again, so I'm fairly confident I haven't used anything inappropriately (which will only make it more embarrassing if anything is used inappropriately).
Forgive me for being new and not knowing exactly how this works, but I looked through the Community Use Policy and I saw some things that seemed to make projects like this a violation. I highly doubt this is so, especially when Paizo releases things like the card templates. Nevertheless, when I read the CU Policy, I saw this bit:
Don’t do anything that might hurt or damage Paizo... You agree to not use Paizo's trade dress—that is, you may not make your material look like ours.
It appears like making assets that look similar to the actual assets in the PACG is against the policy. So something such as the following wouldn't be allowed?
I've changed the swirl at the top of the sheet to brown, matching that used on the official sheets.
Yet we are given card templates so we can make cards look like the official cards. How do you tell where the line is in regards to 'Paizo's trade dress'?
Those are fair points and are concerns that I've shared since the project was conceptualized. I've posed the concerns to Paizo/Lone Shark via email in an effort to ensure that we (I) don't do anything inappropriate.
The trade dress clause that you've cited is (I believe) intended to prevent hobbyists from passing anything off as official. This project has incorporated a number of elements into the character sheets in order to ensure that it is clear that they are not official. While the appearance is close to the official sheets, there are a number of elements that are deliberately different from the official sheets.
1. An AP/deck logo/name is included in the top left corner. Neither the Core Set nor Curse of the Crimson Throne character sheets include such a logo.
2. The sheets have "CORE CONVERSION" immediately beneath the PACG logo in the top right corner (my template for custom characters has "CUSTOM CHARACTER"), making it clear (hopefully) that this is part of the unofficial core conversion project.
3. The color I've used for the headers, lines, and portrait frame is not the same as that used on the official sheets. It's close to the green used on the Core Set sheets, but distinctly lighter. The portrait frame on the official sheets is a much darker shade of green. The Curse of the Crimson Throne character sheets used a reddish-brown. I didn't want to be "chasing colors" (i.e., changing colors if Paizo/Lone Shark use different colors on future products) so I used the green from a swatch of the character card green (the alternative being to use the same blue as the legacy character sheets).
4.The margins are different, especially with the character portrait (which I've pushed far more left than it is on the official sheets. I'm not sure that everyone can print borderless, which would allow for the portrait frame to be placed at the far right edge as on the official sheets. The margins allow for any printer on 8.5" x 11" paper (if this doesn't work for members of our community that reside in other countries, let me know so that I can come up with an alternate format that works on your paper dimensions).
5. There are a lot of small changes in terms of font placement and arrangement. Much of this was due to the limitations of working in Microsoft Word (Paizo/Lone Shark probably use either Adobe Indesign or a similarly powerful tool for the official sheets). In addition, slightly different fonts are used. They're close, but not quite the same as those used on the official sheets.
6. In place of the Paizo logo, the disclaimer required by the CUP is included at the bottom left of the sheet. This makes it clear that this is not an official product (..."This character sheet is not published, endorsed, or specifically approved by Paizo Inc...").
7. I've replaced the normal footnote text with similar information, but based on the old sheets.
8. These sheets are provided for free via the Board Game Geek ("...We are expressly prohibited from charging you to use or access this content..."). The file pages there make it clear that these are unofficial and the result of community discussion (in addition to official guidance via the Core Set rules, Core Conversion Guide, FAQs, and developer input).
9. Aside from all of the above, my chief concern was whether or not the use of the character portraits was okay, specifically because they had to be cropped from their original versions. I found a post from Paizo in the Community Use forum saying the cropping was allowed, however. So as long as the sheets only use images allowed by the CUP (character portraits and logos), replacing those whose images aren't allowed with either the silhouettes (in the case of portraits) or plain text (in the case of AP/deck logos), I think (hope) we're in the clear.
All that said, I've been up front with the appearance and intended outcome from the project's conception. Part of that effort was to allow the powers that be to pump the brakes in case there is anything that we shouldn't be doing. A previously unstated goal of this preliminary stage (actual downloadable sheets) was to allow Paizo/Lone Shark to take a look at the character sheets being made for the project in order to give them time to make a determination as to whether or not these are acceptable by the CUP. If they are not, I expect to hear something (hopefully not via a lawyer ;) ) so that I can either make appropriate changes or take the sheets down.
And just in case all of the above sounds snippy, it's not. I'm actually very thankful that you've raised these concerns. This is exactly the kind of feedback this project needs in order to be successful. If anyone thinks that anything about these sheets needs to change in order to remain within the allowances of the CUP, we need to know that sooner rather than later so that we can make the appropriate changes and stay out of trouble.
Well that's embarrassing. I've fixed them on the sheets (I hope to have the final versions uploaded soon).
Thanks!
I finally posted the "final" versions, correcting any errors identified above (hopefully without missing any or adding any new errors). Anything marked as questionable (highlighted yellow) was reverted to what I think is the current approved wording and the highlighting removed. You can see the updated sheets at the Board Game Geek here.
I was holding off in hopes that the CUP would be updated to include [some of] the missing character images and/or deck logo images, but the wheels of progress are slow. If/when those images are covered under the CUP, I'll update the relevant sheets.
Note that some of WotR Seoni Element Master's powers are currently incorrect, see below. The role is irregular in that some powers change their wording even without taking a power feat.
Before your combat check, you may discard a card to draw an Arcane ([] or Magic) or mastered card from your discards.
On your check to recharge an Attack or mastered spell ([] or item), you may automatically succeed.
(This one issue aside, congratulations on completing this very impressive project!)
Just wondering, is it possible to download all the Core-updated sheets at once?
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And fun idea for Ranzak!
Kleptomaniac: The best share of the loot is all of the loot.
Wrecker: It was like that when I got here.
Thanks for calling out the Seoni error. I've fixed it and the updated version is posted on the BGG.
I like the Ranzak quotes. We should put those that have been submitted to some kind of vote.
I consolidated all of the sheets into a zip file and it came out to 32 Mb - way too big. I'll try it again after I have time to reduce the file size of each (I just reduced the file size of the RotR sheets and it dropped from 2.5 Mb to 2 Mb - but it's only compatible with Adobe Acrobat/Reader 9.0 and later now).
This is phenomenal work! Thanks to everyone for their time and effort!
I fixed Fighter CD Flenta's proficiencies. "Arcane" and "Item" were incorrectly listed as two separate proficiencies instead of the single "Arcane Item" proficiency that the conversion guide shows.
2. The sheets have "CORE CONVERSION" immediately beneath the PACG logo in the top right corner (my template for custom characters has "CUSTOM CHARACTER"), making it clear (hopefully) that this is part of the unofficial core conversion project.
It's probably fine as-is, but you could put "UNOFFICIAL CORE CONVERSION" to make it really clear.
Thanks again for putting in all this time, Brother Tyler!
I agree with you in principle. However, making that change would require the font to be much smaller and/or modified so that it remains legible.
I figured the "This character sheet is not published, endorsed, or specifically approved by Paizo Inc." bit at the bottom was sufficient to make it clear that these are unofficial sheets based on the Core Conversion Guide.
I'm not opposed to the change, but it's not one that I want to implement unless we have a consensus that it's necessary.
Also, the flavor text for Ranzak (S&S) isn't final. At the time, there was only the one suggestion. Another suggestion was made after I'd posted the "final" versions. Both suggestions are good, so we should probably put it to a vote or something.
Suggestion 1
To a true pirate there's no such thing as stealing ... only procuring.
Suggestion 2
The best share of the loot is all of the loot.
Suggestion A
Sometimes the best way to board a ship is to bust right through the hull.
Suggestion B
It was like that when I got here.
Everyone can vote by replying with the number (1/2) and letter (A/B) they prefer. I can then make any necessary changes once everyone has voted. It's been pretty slow in here, so I could give everyone through the end of the month/year.
1 B
1B & 2B... That's goblin spirit on top of pirate spirit.
1B & 2B... That's goblin spirit on top of pirate spirit.
I kinda looks like you're trying to vote twice there, buddy.
(1 vs 2 is for the Kleptomaniac role; A vs B is for the Wrecker role.)
2B
1B & 2B... That's goblin spirit on top of pirate spirit.I kinda looks like you're trying to vote twice there, buddy.
(1 vs 2 is for the Kleptomaniac role; A vs B is for the Wrecker role.)
You got me :-)
I meant 2B
2b
I just started playing Skizza from the Gunslinger and I'm curious if some or any of the gunslingers should be considered for alchemical proficiency. Most of them have Craft and their ammunition require Craft to recharge. Not a huge deal if you aren't mixing cards up from different sets but as soon as you start pulling in Core/Curse alchemical items and standard recovery it quickly matters if you are proficient or not.
I think that we [the players] can discuss whether or not we think that this is a change that would be appropriate in some/all of the Gunslinger cases, but this goes beyond simple conversion and crosses into the realm of updating characters, becoming something that the developers would have to discuss/implement.
I think the craft skill that gunslingers have is akin to the Gunsmithing feat their RPG counterparts possess. It's probably meant to be focused on ammunition, not potions and such.
I noticed the new Core Set Ezren also has the Craft skill, but no Alchemical proficiency.
I think I'd agree for the most part the gunslingers as a class the ammunition is what the craft skill was intended for. But for Skizza I wonder, probably because the artwork for him depicts bombs and potions.
In theory, Skizza's power feat "(☐ If you would bury or banish it, you may discard it instead.)" provides the functionality you're looking for. Certainly, it made the consideration of proficiency less necessary / clear cut.