Core Set Version Character Sheets for Legacy Characters?


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Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Brother Tyler wrote:
...the "freely" thing mentioned above...

I'm not sure that those automatically get "freely." I have begun a discussion.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Latest updates posted with the following changes:

before/after you act > before/after acting
favored card type > favored card
reset your hand > reset
reroll [the/all the] dice > reroll
draw a random X from the box > draw a new X
and the RotR wording (die > skill; removing "for any check")

I didn't touch the "freely" thing, per Vic's guidance above (thanks for the help, Vic).

So now it's about getting the "during recovery" bits right and fixing anything highlighted yellow or pink (and fixing my mistakes, of course, or anything else that is brought up for discussion).

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Vic Wertz wrote:
Brother Tyler wrote:
...the "freely" thing mentioned above...
I'm not sure that those automatically get "freely." I have begun a discussion.
Core Set Rulebook Transition Guide (pg. 26) wrote:


On weapons and spells from previous sets, any power that adds to or
subtracts from a check, or that rerolls dice, may be played freely. Powers
that also determine the type of check may not be played freely.

I was referring to that rule. So that would apply to things like Defensive Shock, which doesn't actually change anything with character powers at all, so you can ignore me. :-D


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

While we wait for feedback, I've begun working on the character sheets. These will be the most time-intensive portion of the overall effort. Once we get feedback, it will be relatively easy to incorporate changes onto the sheets and then finalize them for sharing rapidly (vice doing nothing until there is feedback). My priority is to get the sheets for those decks for which there aren't currently any official sheets (Hell's Vengeance 1 & 2, Hunter, Occult Adventures 1 & 2, Pathfinder Tales, Summoner, the Ultimate Add-On Decks, and Warpriest). After that I'll work on the CDs in alphabetical order, then the APs.

One snag we'll run into is those sheets for which there isn't a CUP logo (Hell's Vengeance 2 and Occult Adventures 2 used re-colored logos, the Ultimate Add-On Decks use logos from similarly named books) or CUP image (Ahmotep, Arueshalae, Channa-Ti, Nok-Nok, Simoun, Bikendi Otongu/Ghost Mage role, and Mnesoset/Spinel Sage role). The hack for the HV and OA decks is to have a "1" or "2" below the logo; and the Ultimate Add-On Decks can simply have a text logo. I can't do much about the character portraits until those are released in an update to the CUP or they appear in the Paizo blog.

I've found some errors in the spreadsheet as I work on the character sheets, and I'm correcting those, but I haven't uploaded the corrections yet. For example, I missed a Weapon feat for Nyctessa's Blood Lord role.

So far I have the sheets for the Hell's Vengeance 1 & 2 Character Decks and the Hunter Class Deck completed (pending revisions from feedback).


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Love the work you're doing! Just making a quick nitpick, especially if it affects your work or saves you some time...

Brother Tyler wrote:
[...] My priority is to get the sheets for those decks for which there aren't currently any official sheets (Hell's Vengeance 1 & 2, Hunter, Occult Adventures 1 & 2, Pathfinder Tales, Summoner, the Ultimate Add-On Decks, and Warpriest). [...]

Just so you're aware, there are official sheets for both the Summoner Class Deck (albeit without the Cohorts, which are virtually akin to character powers on their own) and the Warpriest.

There isn't, however, any official sheets for the Magus Class Deck, which you may have confused with the Summoner Class Deck.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Ah, you are absolutely correct. That definitely helps. Thanks!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game, Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

The new heal keyword should cover the concepts of random cards and shuffling from discards.

With that in mind, should not RotRL Kyra's healing powers be something more like this?

Instead of your first exploration on a turn, you may reveal a Divine card to choose a local character. Heal that character 1d4+1 (□+2) cards, then discard the card you revealed.

Instead of your first exploration on a turn, you may reveal a Divine card to choose a local character. Heal that character 1d4+1 (□ +2) (□ +3) cards, then discard the card you revealed (□ and you may draw a card).

Instead of your first exploration on a turn, you may reveal a Divine card to choose a local character. Heal that character 1d4+1 (□ +2) cards, then discard the card you revealed.

Similarly, I believe that WotR Kyra's healing powers should be:

When you use the above power or play a non-Corrupted blessing on another character's (□ or your) check to defeat, a local character may heal 1 card after the check.

When you use the above power or play a non-Corrupted blessing on another character's (□ or your) check to defeat, a local character may heal 1 card after the check.

When you use the above power or play a non-Corrupted blessing on another character's (□ or your) check to defeat, a local character may heal 1 card (□ of a type of your choice) after the check.

and Cleric CD Kyra's powers would be:

Instead of your first exploration on a turn, you may reveal an ally to choose a local character. Heal that character 1d4+1 (□+2) cards, then discard the ally you revealed.

Instead of your first exploration on a turn, you may reveal an ally (□ or a Divine card) to choose a local character. Heal that character 1d4+1 (□+2) (□+3) cards, then discard the ally you revealed.

Instead of your first exploration on a turn, you may reveal an ally to choose a local character. Heal that character 1d4+1 (□+2) cards, then discard the ally you revealed.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Yes, RotR Kyra needs to be fixed (I'm not sure how I missed that change for RotR Kyra).

WotR and CD Kyra already have the "heal" verbiage. WotR uses the same verbiage (I think), but the exact phrasing of the CD version differs slightly from that which you've recommended. The use of the masculine pronoun has been kept, preserving the (irregular) practice of using the opposite gender pronoun when referring to another character. Also, the phrasing I have (assuming I copied/pasted correctly) requires only a "Divine card" and not an ally. I'll have to double-check to make sure I got the right one (I copied/pasted from the downloadable character sheets).

Assuming I copied/pasted correctly, I'm open to discussing alternate phrasings.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game, Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Brother Tyler wrote:

WotR and CD Kyra already have the "heal" verbiage. WotR uses the same verbiage (I think), but the exact phrasing of the CD version differs slightly from that which you've recommended. The use of the masculine pronoun has been kept, preserving the (irregular) practice of using the opposite gender pronoun when referring to another character. Also, the phrasing I have (assuming I copied/pasted correctly) requires only a "Divine card" and not an ally. I'll have to double-check to make sure I got the right one (I copied/pasted from the downloadable character sheets).

WotR Kyra still had random in the power description. With the heal keyword definition, the word "random" is no longer required.

For Cleric CD Kyra, I mistakenly pulled the power for Heggal from your document. In any case, the word "random" can be removed from any heal power.

Ok with the pronoun pattern.


1970Zombie wrote:
Instead of your first exploration on a turn, you may reveal an ally to choose a local character. Heal that character 1d4+1 (□+2) cards, then discard the ally you revealed.

I believe the wording doesn't need to be quite as verbose as that. The Core rules already disallow shuffling in the card you use to heal (Healing sidebar, p.9):

"When a power heals you, shuffle the specified number (and, if specified, type) of random cards from your discards into your deck. If you’re discarding a card to heal yourself, exclude that card from the cards you are healing."

Using a power to heal yourself by discarding a card counts as "discarding a card to heal yourself".

So the wording for the above would be:

new wording wrote:

Instead of your first exploration on a turn, you may discard an ally to heal a local character 1d4+1 (□+2) cards.

Also, Arueshalae (Redeemed) also has a similar heal power.


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Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
1970Zombie wrote:

WotR Kyra still had random in the power description. With the heal keyword definition, the word "random" is no longer required.

For Cleric CD Kyra, I mistakenly pulled the power for Heggal from your document. In any case, the word "random" can be removed from any heal power.

Ah, I see now. I'll go through and fix all of the random healings.

zeroth_hour2 wrote:

So the wording for the above would be:

new wording wrote:
Instead of your first exploration on a turn, you may discard an ally to heal a local character 1d4+1 (□+2) cards.
Also, Arueshalae (Redeemed) also has a similar heal power.

Copy. I'll go through and check all of the heal instances to see if there are any more like that and fix those, too.

This is exactly the kind of feedback I'm looking for. Thanks, folks!

On a side note, I'm going to finish the character sheets for the no-shows (see my earlier post), then I'll fix the above. Once I've done that, I'll upload the latest version to Google.docs. More feedback is always welcome.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I've completed the preliminary character sheets for those characters that don't have official downloadable sheets (Hell's Vengeance 1 & 2, Hunter, Magus, Occult Adventures 1 & 2, Pathfinder Tales, and the Ultimate Add-On Decks). There are several of these for which questions have been posed, though, so they're not ready for prime time.

I found a bunch of omissions from earlier versions of the spreadsheet (lack of attention to detail on my part) and fixed them. The other character sheets shouldn't have those omissions since I copied and pasted from the pdfs (I had to type these in, so I missed some things). That said, there probably *are* omissions that I won't notice until I work on the character sheets (or, preferably, someone points them out first).

I've also fixed the issues described above (i.e., removed the "random" verbiage from the healing powers, replaced the "reveal ... to heal, then discard the card you revealed" with "discard ... to heal"). At least, I think I got them all (Find doesn't always find everything you're looking for) - if you see any that I missed, please point them out.

The online spreadsheet has been updated here. Some more questions came up for discussion in the characters for whom I made the character sheets. I really should just identify question themes (I can think of three) to simplify discussion. At least one of the questions requires study of the character's associated cohort (Hayato/Jinfu, I think), but I'm seriously considering creating similar conversions for *all* of the character-based cohorts (if only there was a new cohort card shown in the blogs so that I could craft a suitable template...).

Anyhoo, I'm going to begin working on the preliminary character sheets for the remaining characters, starting with the class decks and then moving on to the APs. A vacation will put things on hold next week, but I'll resume the push upon returning. My effort for now, though, is wrapping my little brain around the recovery verbiage and when/where it will be necessary. And I just noticed the phrasing of Core Set Harsk's power feat to gain Divine skill/proficiency, so I'll be adjusting the spreadsheet to match.


Ranzak (Wrecker) Power 6 wrote:
"□ After you defeat a monster from a location, you may examine the top card of that deck; if it’s a boon, banish it."

Locations aren't referred to as decks anymore, so the deck should also be changed to location.

templated version wrote:
"□ After you defeat a monster from a location, you may examine the top card of that location; if it’s a boon, banish it."
WotR Adowyn Power 1 wrote:
"At the start of your turn, you may search your deck or your discard pile for a cohort (□ or an Animal card) (□ or a weapon) and put it into your hand, then recharge a card."

"Put it into your hand" has been changed since Mummy's Mask to "draw it".

templated version wrote:
At the start of your turn, you may search your deck or your discard pile for a cohort (□ or an Animal card) (□ or a weapon) and draw it, then recharge a card.

Arueshalae's Power 1 also has "add X to your hand" wording that can be simplified to "draw X".

WotR Balazar's Power 3 does as well.

Ekkie Power 1 wrote:
For your check that invokes the Animal or Basic trait (□ or has a level less than the #), add 1d4 (□ 1d6) to your check.

Rulebook's transition guide for compatibility states that "When effects refer to cards that have the Basic trait, treat them as referring to level 0 cards". Changing it on the card might be problematic when running older sets but it seems weird to have a card with a post-Core template refer to something pre-Core.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
zeroth_hour2 wrote:

Ekkie Power 1 wrote:
For your check that invokes the Animal or Basic trait (□ or has a level less than the #), add 1d4 (□ 1d6) to your check.

This wording currently refers to the level of a check, as opposed to a card - which is not a thing.

Post-Core should be, say:

"For your check that invokes the Animal or Basic trait (□ or against a card with a level less than #), add 1d4 (□ 1d6) to your check."


zeroth_hour2 wrote:


templated version wrote:
At the start of your turn, you may search your deck or your discard pile for a cohort (□ or an Animal card) (□ or a weapon) and draw it, then recharge a card.

The discard pile is now simply "discards". Should pop out in many character powers.

zeroth_hour2 wrote:


Ekkie Power 1 wrote:
For your check that invokes the Animal or Basic trait (□ or has a level less than the #), add 1d4 (□ 1d6) to your check.
fixed wording - maybe? wrote:
For your check that invokes the Animal trait or against a card with a level 0 (□ lower than #), add 1d4 (□ 1d6) to your check.

I am not really sure about the wording within the original parentheses, but level 0 card and # should have the same wording.

EDIT: Ninja'ed by Longshot + slightly corrected with his suggestion.
Shouldn't the check have also Basic Trait if you play a Basic boon for your combat/other check???


Basic trait is mentioned here and should be replaced with "level 0 card_type", as mentioned in the Conversion guide. No big problems with that, I think.
WotR Balazar - Role 1 - Power 8
WotR Imrijka - Role 2 - Power 8
Zova - Role 2 - Power 7
Cogsnap - Role 1 - Power 6 (non-Basic => with a level higher than 0 + change the order in the sentence?)
Hunter Adowyn - Role 2 - Power 7
Salim - Role 1 - Power 10
Arabundi - Role 2 - Power 9
Amaryllis - Role 2 - Power 7 (and Role 1 - Power 8)
-some of those you marked (with different colours), some were unmarked-

Elite is mentioned in:
Summoner Balazar - Role 2 - Power 9 (here, just delete Basic or Elite, with no changes in meaning. That card ignores matching traits of Basic, Elite - so it's now meaningless; Veteran is OK and should stay)
Wizard Ezren - Role 1 - Power 8 should be: "When (□ you acquire or) another character acquires a boon, that character may banish it to draw 1 new boon of that type with a level higher than 0 (□ 3)."

EDIT: my template suggestions:

Basic card_type wrote:
level 0 card_type
non-Basic card_type wrote:
card_type with a level higher than 0
non-Elite card_type wrote:
card_type with a level higher than 3

Some might need some condensing


Another "changed type" is Villain / Henchman.
Brielle - your change seems OK, "non-Story bane" is a little strange, but fine
S&S Feyia - Role 2 - Power 6 (change to non-Story bane seems fine, Danger is always summoned - so far)
RotR Lem - Role 2 - Power 6 (here it is more for discussion due to Danger, as the henchman for a given scenario might be the same as summoned card such as Danger or because of scenario powers; is it henchman? Well, yes, but it did not come from a location; change to "closing henchman" or "henchman from a location" is problematic; Villain is fine, changing it to Story bane would broaden the power to the Danger as well)
Bekah, Siwar, Ramexes, Wu Shen, Aric - similar to RotR Lem
S&S Valeros - Role 2 - Powers 7 & 8: 7 - due to some check-step naming changes, I'd recommend: "At the start of the Villain step, you may move" (8 is similar to RotR Lem)
WotR Alain - Power 4 is fine, you can use reload :)
Zvarbel, Paladin Seelah - reload it into its location (if it came from one) :)
WotR Crowe seems fine, non-summoned non-Story bane might be a little too much non- :)

location deck > location (Witch Feiya)


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I *think* I've gone through and have made all of the corrections suggested above and uploaded the new version, with the following exceptions.

I haven't re-phrased Ekkie's power yet.

I only changed (non-)villain or henchman to (non-)story bane when it was clear that the power only referred to those from locations, rather than summoned. Any time the wording of the power allowed for it to affect summoned villains/henchmen, it wasn't changed.

Putting a card on top of any kind of deck other than a character deck wasn't changed to "reload." The rulebook specifies that reloading is when a card is put on top of a character's deck. If the developers confirm that you can reload a card to a location (or other) deck, I'll make the changes.

One more thing I definitely need to do is go through the FAQs to see if any of the powers have an errata. I had a question about one of Estra's powers that was answered in a FAQ, so there may be others.

If I missed anything (or screwed up), I'm sure y'all will let me know. ;)

Link


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Brother Tyler wrote:


I haven't re-phrased Ekkie's power yet.

It just occured to me - you CANNOT reward that power without functional change (except by a very long-winded and detailed description) - due to the fact that the original power targeted Basic TRAIT (which can be "invoked") , which is now simply Level 0 (which cannot be invoked).

Best case scenario I could think of would be:

For your check that invokes the Animal trait or against a level 0 (□ or level lower than #)card, or when such a card was played to determine your skill for the check, add 1d4 (□ 1d6) to your check.

...Which seems quite unwieldy.


Well, you can reload/recharge into a location - see the FAQ for Symbol of Sleep or other Symbols across Core or Curse. I think the term is now general enough to be used :) Several weapons (mostly magic ones) also allow you to reload the monster to its location if you don't defeat it. I can rummage through Core (and possibly Curse) until I find an example, if you want.

Longshot, nice approach! Unwieldy but understandable. I would maybe slightly change to ", or is against". Of course, we need word from the developers saying "OK, that is acceptable wording" :)


OK, here it is:

Vicious Scythe, CotCT 2 Weapon wrote:
If you fail this check against a non-story bane monster, you may reload the monster into its location

It also shows the non-story bane construction...


Brother Tyler wrote:

I only changed (non-)villain or henchman to (non-)story bane when it was clear that the power only referred to those from locations, rather than summoned. Any time the wording of the power allowed for it to affect summoned villains/henchmen, it wasn't changed.

You are doing great job with all the character powers for vast amount of widely different characters, which I very much appreciate - I just wanted to point out possible improvements or maybe mistakes. With that in mind, consider this - henchmen are no longer card type and the only way they are mentioned at all is through the scenario setup. Not counting Villains, other Story Banes are "just" Story Banes and neither henchmen, neither villains.

So villains or henchmen will be ~90% from a location. So any mention of villain or henchman should be non.basic change.

Second thing - some scenarios list Danger as the same Story Bane as (non-)closing henchmen. What of these counts as henchman and which just as story bane? It requires deep thought for each case :(


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Ah, you appear to be correct on the story banes. For some reason I was not thinking straight (actually, I was straight up confused, but I'm alright now ;) ). Villains and henchmen (whether closing or non-closing) have become story banes. The "danger" has replaced functionality performed by things like servitor demons and the like, all summoned henchmen. Does anyone know of any instances where the danger for a scenario isn't a story bane? Are there any instances where changing (non-)villain/henchman to (non-)story bane changes the functionality? That might not even matter - if a danger is a barrier, it's not affected.

I'm going to have to review the spreadsheet, but with my (late) realization that villains & henchmen > story banes (yes, I read that blog post a long time ago, but I'd forgotten), I agree that it's probably a safe basic change to update the verbiage to "(non-)story bane."

As for Ekkie, I didn't necessarily disagree with the suggestions. I was short on time (I had to go run an errand) and I recognized the complexity of the change, so I wanted to make sure that we discuss that one in sufficient depth before I make any change. As has been suggested, this might be one where we need official guidance.

If there's precedent for reloading cards into non-character decks, I'm fine with making that change. I just wanted to be sure before I went ahead with it.

I appreciate the compliment, but this is clearly a community effort. If I undertook this all on my own, it would either take much longer, or would be of lower quality. I appreciate everyone's participation in and input to the project. Teamwork makes the dream work.


Brother Tyler wrote:

I'm going to have to review the spreadsheet, but with my (late) realization that villains & henchmen > story banes (yes, I read that blog post a long time ago, but I'd forgotten), I agree that it's probably a safe basic change to update the verbiage to "(non-)story bane."

It probably needs to be graduated - if the original power cared about henchmen only, it might say "non-Villain story bane", upgrade to power affecting even Villains might be "(any) story bane". But that does not solve the possible change in behaviour with many Danger cards being story banes (and there are many instances in Core and Curse when Danger is a random monster or barrier).

Going through Curse scenarios, there are actually only 2 scenarios that summon a henchman story bane. Maaaaybe some Villains summon more story banes calling them henchmen - and the question is: should they be considered old-style henchmen for characters powers? I don't know. Therefore: not a basic change.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

For old sets, you could safely change "non-henchman, non-villain" to "non-story bane." But in Core, story banes can be used in ways that are neither a henchman or a villain - the danger, and anything summoned from a story bane roster roster. I don't think we can make that change without a FAQ from Paizo.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Long time lurker, first time posting. I’ve been following this thread for sometime because of my interest in the legacy sheets and today I had an interesting thought, would you be releasing the template once you complete your legacy sheets? I’d love to have access to a customizable template so that if I, or anyone I play with, wanted to create their own character they could use the template to track their progress. Thanks for all your work!


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Yes, I'll post the template (a Microsoft Word .doc) as well as the graphic for the character portrait (a Photoshop .psd with an accompanying .txt instructions). I just want to make sure that it requires the least amount of fiddling for end users before I make it available (creating the converted sheets will provide a suitable test run, I think).

That's a solid copy on the varied uses of the story banes.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Makes sense, thanks again for all the work you’re doing!


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

My two efforts for today:

1. Copy the powers with "No Change" into the Updated columns. This will help me out when I'm transcribing. Also, I can then hide the Original columns on the spreadsheets, making it a little easier to look at. I'll copy the "BASE CHARACTER" and role names into the Updated columns, too.

2. Changing all of the power feats in which characters permanently gain skills ("You gain the skill...") to "Gain" (Basic Change).

What I'd also like to do is start marking updated powers as "Final" when they need no further discussion. This will help us to focus our discussion. It would probably be easiest to do this by identifying those powers that still need discussion, allowing me to mark everything else [currently marked as "Basic Change" or "Discussion" or "Developers"] as "Final." Please give me your recommendations.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Brother Tyler wrote:
WotR and CD Kyra already have the "heal" verbiage. WotR uses the same verbiage (I think), but the exact phrasing of the CD version differs slightly from that which you've recommended. The use of the masculine pronoun has been kept, preserving the (irregular) practice of using the opposite gender pronoun when referring to another character.

Paizo generally follows the Chicago Manual of Style, which used to advise against "they" as a singular pronoun; we would instead alternately use "he" or "she". They have recently revised that stance, so as of the Core Set (for PACG) and the Second Edition Core Rulebook (for the RPG) we are now using "they."


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Thanks, Vic. I'll take care of that for the next update.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
Brother Tyler wrote:
WotR and CD Kyra already have the "heal" verbiage. WotR uses the same verbiage (I think), but the exact phrasing of the CD version differs slightly from that which you've recommended. The use of the masculine pronoun has been kept, preserving the (irregular) practice of using the opposite gender pronoun when referring to another character.
Paizo generally follows the Chicago Manual of Style, which used to advise against "they" as a singular pronoun; we would instead alternately use "he" or "she". They have recently revised that stance, so as of the Core Set (for PACG) and the Second Edition Core Rulebook (for the RPG) we are now using "they."

How do you want poor non-native-English-speakers foreigners to follow? Really?... Just kidding.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Frencois wrote:

How do you want poor non-native-English-speakers foreigners to follow? Really?... Just kidding.

TBH, "they" always made more sense to me as a non-gendered pronoun than a seemingly arbitrary "he/she" rotation. Especially since we have nothing of the sort in my language (that wouldn't sound as if you're referring to a person as a "thing" or a "creature"); iirc, Frencois, the new pronoun should be pretty easy on you though - it's roughly the equivalent of your "on", n'est-ce pas?

That said, I seem to remember a Paizo/Lone Shark person stating way back that they used "she" in the male character powers, and "he" - in female's - ostensibly so they avoid confusion if the character is targeting someone else of him/her/themselves :)

Lone Shark Games

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Longshot11 wrote:
That said, I seem to remember a Paizo/Lone Shark person stating way back that they used "she" in the male character powers, and "he" - in female's - ostensibly so they avoid confusion if the character is targeting someone else of him/her/themselves :)

In the core sets, that's true. But we were inconsistent. Reiko, Nyctessa, and Zelhara are some characters that broke that rule, likely because we forgot the rule occasionally.

The singular they is a subject of great debate at the Lone Shark office. Everyone agrees with it philosophically, but the wording is sometimes very awkward. A lot depends on how you feel about the "word" themself. So we try to avoid constructions that lead us down these strange and unfamiliar passages.


Frencois wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Brother Tyler wrote:
WotR and CD Kyra already have the "heal" verbiage. WotR uses the same verbiage (I think), but the exact phrasing of the CD version differs slightly from that which you've recommended. The use of the masculine pronoun has been kept, preserving the (irregular) practice of using the opposite gender pronoun when referring to another character.
Paizo generally follows the Chicago Manual of Style, which used to advise against "they" as a singular pronoun; we would instead alternately use "he" or "she". They have recently revised that stance, so as of the Core Set (for PACG) and the Second Edition Core Rulebook (for the RPG) we are now using "they."

How do you want poor non-native-English-speakers foreigners to follow? Really?... Just kidding.

Start by fixing your own language first? j/k

(Interestingly though there seems to be a big philosophical debate in French about gender inclusivity)

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Brother Tyler wrote:
Putting a card on top of any kind of deck other than a character deck wasn't changed to "reload." The rulebook specifies that reloading is when a card is put on top of a character's deck. If the developers confirm that you can reload a card to a location (or other) deck, I'll make the changes.

"Reload" with no deck specified defaults to your deck, but you can reload into other stacks as long as you specify the stack—for example, "reload this card into your location" or "reload the hour into the hourglass" are both valid instructions.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Jenceslav wrote:

OK, here it is:

Vicious Scythe, CotCT 2 Weapon wrote:
If you fail this check against a non-story bane monster, you may reload the monster into its location
It also shows the non-story bane construction...

Yes, but note that just saying "non-story bane" would be inappropriate when you're trying to exclude non-banes.

That is to say, ”story bane” is a compound noun, so “story” should not be treated as an adjective modifying “bane.” “Non-story bane” would be read as “non-(story bane),” aka any card that’s not a story bane (be it bane, boon, or other). Just as “non-blessing” is any card that’s not a blessing.

If you want to refer to any bane other than a story bane, the phrase you would need to use is “non-story bane monster or barrier.”

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Brother Tyler wrote:
Does anyone know of any instances where the danger for a scenario isn't a story bane?

See Curse 1D, 4D, and 5D.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Mike Selinker wrote:
The singular they is a subject of great debate at the Lone Shark office. Everyone agrees with it philosophically, but the wording is sometimes very awkward. A lot depends on how you feel about the "word" themself. So we try to avoid constructions that lead us down these strange and unfamiliar passages.

Paizo's editorial stance is "themself" is a valid word, but I personally reword to avoid it whenever possible.


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
Mike Selinker wrote:
The singular they is a subject of great debate at the Lone Shark office. Everyone agrees with it philosophically, but the wording is sometimes very awkward. A lot depends on how you feel about the "word" themself. So we try to avoid constructions that lead us down these strange and unfamiliar passages.
Paizo's editorial stance is "themself" is a valid word, but I personally reword to avoid it whenever possible.

As would I. From my dictionary:

"The standard reflexive form corresponding to they and them is themselves, as in they can do it themselves. The singular form themself, first recorded in the 14th century, has re-emerged in recent years corresponding to the singular gender-neutral use of they, as in this is the first step in helping someone to help themself. The form is not widely accepted in standard English, however. For more details, see usage at they."

"The word they (with its counterparts them, their, and themselves) as a singular pronoun to refer to a person of unspecified gender has been used since at least the 16th century. In the late 20th century, as the traditional use of he to refer to a person of either sex came under scrutiny on the grounds of sexism, this use of they has become more common. It is now generally accepted in contexts where it follows an indefinite pronoun such as anyone, no one, someone, or a person: anyone can join if they are a resident; each to their own. In other contexts, coming after singular nouns, the use of they is now common, although less widely accepted, especially in formal contexts. Sentences such as ask a friend if they could help are still criticized for being ungrammatical. Nevertheless, in view of the growing acceptance of they and its obvious practical advantages, they is used in this dictionary in many cases where he would have been used formerly. See also usage at he and she."


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Longshot11 wrote:
Frencois wrote:

How do you want poor non-native-English-speakers foreigners to follow? Really?... Just kidding.

... Frencois, the new pronoun should be pretty easy on you though - it's roughly the equivalent of your "on", n'est-ce pas?

1) Sorry for taking that thread on a sidetrack but that is an interesting one. Pretty sure Brother Tyler will make sure we keep on working on the original job to do.

2) This said, nice reference Longshot, but "on" in french isn't really good either (it pretty much means "we usually" or "someone within us", but you don't really know who you are talking about... so your are back to the "you" issue in PACG). Usually when I humbly write or translate a game rulebook in French, I try to introduce early some notions like the players who's turn it is or the active player to avoid the issue (and then try to find "efficient" ways to cover those ideas with short words that fit well on cards). Now for the gender-specific issue, we have an easier time because the word "player" translates either in "joueur" or "joueuse" but we still use the masculine as generic (the politically correct didn't strike too much) so you can still say "Le joueur blablabla..., il blablabla..." (btw blablabla is french for yadayadayada) without offending anyone.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

With the Core rule book now stating that each exploration is a seperate step, does that affect powers that trigger "at the end your explore step"?

For example, can Kasmir use his power after each exploration?

Kasmir wrote:
At the end of your explore step, you may discard a card to choose another character at your location to shuffle 1d4 ([] +1) random cards from his discard pile into his deck.

I'm sure that's not the intent, so does Kasmir need a minor update? Would changing it to fire "At the end of your turn" be a significant change to the original intent?


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
MorkXII wrote:

With the Core rule book now stating that each exploration is a seperate step, does that affect powers that trigger "at the end your explore step"?

For example, can Kasmir use his power after each exploration?

Kasmir wrote:
At the end of your explore step, you may discard a card to choose another character at your location to shuffle 1d4 ([] +1) random cards from his discard pile into his deck.

I'm sure that's not the intent, so does Kasmir need a minor update? Would changing it to fire "At the end of your turn" be a significant change to the original intent?

It definitely impacts that ability (and so errata is needed), because the Conversion Guide even had a section to fix Dream Voyage (a spell that also forced you to 'end your explore step').

Probably the easiest solution would be "After you explore, you may [heal power]. If you do, you may not explore again this turn".


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Yewstance wrote:
Probably the easiest solution would be "After you explore, you may [heal power]. If you do, you may not explore again this turn".

Also not ideal because it adds an actual exploration requirement. Closest seems to be:

revised wording wrote:
"At the end of an exploration step, you may [heal power]. If you do, you may not explore again this turn".


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Wouldn't "At the end of your turn" work just as well, with fewer words? Granted, its not exactly the same, but I'm having a hard time coming up with reasons why it would be significantly different.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
MorkXII wrote:
Wouldn't "At the end of your turn" work just as well, with fewer words? Granted, its not exactly the same, but I'm having a hard time coming up with reasons why it would be significantly different.

The biggest difference would be effects that let you (or other players) move "at the end of your turn" enhance it. While those are somewhat less common post-Core, there's still plenty of examples of this (see Barbarians/Skalds). In PACS, if you're using Ultimate Magic and include Eagle Aerie, for example, you can use the displayed spell's effect to move to any player and then heal them at the end of each of your turns.

Also, if there's end-of-turn damage from your location, you can suffer the damage and then heal it back, and stuff like that.

These "heal during end-of-turn steps" is something that can't be done by actual Cure spells, by the way. Once you've chosen to end your turn, there's no space between steps to use a Cure or Restorative Touch or most normal character powers (even if other listed end-of-turn effects would otherwise make them more/less desirable to use), but if a power like this is timed to do so then it works perfectly well. As a result, it would push it outside of the normal timing of heal effects - probably an intentional limitation to avoid things like the Eagle Aerie play earlier.

Whether it's significantly different is a matter of opinion, but I would consider "End of your turn" to be objectively stronger, since it's far more easily leveraged to heal at anyone's location and timed to better compensate for negative EoT effects. Is that buff significant enough to cause any issues? Probably not - we're not exactly talking about Grazzle levels of healing here.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
zeroth_hour2 wrote:
Frencois wrote:
]How do you want poor non-native-English-speakers foreigners to follow? Really?... Just kidding.

Start by fixing your own language first? j/k

(Interestingly though there seems to be a big philosophical debate in French about gender inclusivity)

Oh la la! Totally different ballgame. Fixing English-boardgame-language is a very difficult task (i. e. try saving the planet from pollution by year 2100). Fixing French is pretty much the definition of "impossibility" (i. e. get a permanent Mars Colony by next month). 1% of the people here try to make a buzz by discussing the gender inclusivity issue. 99% of us know we won't meet the martians next month. That's why even the most feminist activists within my friends and players (bare with me, that includes my wife and daughters, so I'm doing my best not to be [REDACTED]) just told me that boardgames' rules are way too important for the future of society to introduce uncertainty in it for whatever reason. In France, whoever you are, you do become male as soon as you start to be "a" player. Thinking of it, that's not a bad way to ensure equality of treatment IMHO... Post-Scriptum for non Frog-Natives leaving in countries where (rule-and-others) lawyers rule : the whole thing is 110% not-serious.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
MorkXII wrote:
Wouldn't "At the end of your turn" work just as well, with fewer words? Granted, its not exactly the same, but I'm having a hard time coming up with reasons why it would be significantly different.

More seriously from my previous post...

It is not a lot different but a little more than what just Yewstance mentioned concerning what can happen "at the end of turn" : there is also the "close location step". Healing before or after may have an influence depending of the "To Close" or "When Closed" paragraphs.


Some cleanup:

eg S&S Lini:

current version wrote:
When you play an Animal ally, if you would recharge, discard, or bury it for its power, you may instead shuffle it into your deck (□ or reload it).

Compare Core Lini:

core Lini wrote:
When you would recharge an Animal ally for its power (□ or for your character power), you may shuffle it into your deck instead.

So S&S Lini can be templated like so:

current version wrote:
When you would recharge, discard, or bury an Animal ally for its power, you may instead shuffle it into your deck (□ or reload it).

----------

WotR Imrijka Power 1 wrote:
□ You gain the skill Perception: Wisdom +2.

Contrast Core Kyra:

core Kyra power 3 wrote:

□ Gain the skills Fortitude: Constitution +2 and

Perception: Wisdom +2.

(these are minor changes, but we may as well be very consistent)


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

At this point, I think it's easy to convert the "(non-)villain and henchman" to "(non-)story bane monster or villain" safely without changing the functionality of the cards. Story banes, whether used in the villain, henchman, or danger roles, or even as summoned banes, translate without any real change. In cases where the danger isn't a story bane, that's no different than similar effects in legacy APs (e.g., summoning some sort of barrier or monster that isn't a villain or henchman).

The only times where there is any potential for confusion are when the power refers to just one - either villain or henchman. In cases where the power refers solely to a villain, we should probably preserve the "villain" terminology, though now referring to the role rather than the card type. In cases where the power refers solely to a henchman, we should probably use "non-villain story bane" rather than preserving "henchman" because the henchman cards were used to cover a wide variety of effects, including dangers (i.e., servitor demons) as well as summoned banes (lots of barriers summoned a henchman card).

To summarize:

"(non-)villain or henchman" > "(non-)story bane monster or barrier"
"villain" > "villain"
"henchman" > "non-villain story bane"

As for pronouns, I see two courses of action:

1. Use the opposite gender pattern, including fixing those characters for which this wasn't used.

2. Change all third person pronouns to "they/them/whatever." This will include cases where we may have to re-word "themself/themselves" out.

I really don't care to debate the pros and cons of either of those methods (there are pros and cons to both methods). I just want to determine which method we're going to use and move forward. The Core Set and CotCT characters use the "they/them/whatever" method, so consistency would drive towards the second method.

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