I'm looking to build a ninja that strictly throws shuriken. Any help for a way to go about this would be amazing. I may decide to have a melee weapon as a back up but would prefer not to have to. Thank you for any assistance guys
Pure ninja, multiclass allowed, or would you look at other classes? And what level range?
Assuming pure ninja you might look at the false opening feat. It depends a bit on the level you're starting at though.
Yes pure ninja, and let's say starting level 5.
Assuming something like
Feat 1: Point blank shot
Human: Precise shot
Ninja talent 2: Flurry of stars
3: Weapon focus (shuriken)
NT 4: Combat trick (dodge)
5: Close quarters thrower (shuriken)
You can safely and effectively throw shuriken in melee. You're still a couple levels short of being able to get & use false opening though, and this build puts off the always-useful vanishing trick until 6th level. Also flurry of stars chews through a lot of money when you're using magic shuriken.
OK, lets think of doing this another way.
Feat 1: Point blank shot
Human: Precise shot
Ninja talent 2: Vanishing trick
3: Weapon focus (shuriken)
NT 4: Style master (startoss style)
5: Startoss comet
This probably works better for you. Just one shuriken at a time, but you get +4 damage with it and turning invisible both protects you in melee and guarantees sneak attack.
I was hoping to throw as many as possible and possibly use Pressure Points Talent, what do you think about this?
Thought about it already, but there's the problem of getting sneak attack more than once a round with a ranged weapon. There's no easy way to do so at 5th level without multiclassing out of ninja.
Edit: if you drop both point blank shot and precise shot from my first build you could add both pressure points and false opening and with your 3 attacks from flurry of stars the last 2 would get sneak attack... but you'd give an AoO to the enemy, and without the dropped feats you'd be quite likely to miss even with the enemy losing their dex bonus.
I'm seeing all the feats needed now it may be better for me to go fighter for a few levels and then switch to ninja when I have a more solid base
Not really. Rogues and ninjas effectively get 1 feat/2 levels. Two levels of fighter gives you just one feat over the same number of ninja levels, and anything more in fighter is on par with the same number of ninja levels - while losing sneak attack, ki and random ninja abilities. The problem is just the huge number of feats required for effective throwing puts the level where various things come online higher than you'd like.
There are ways to cut the required levels back but they involve dipping into a spellcaster rather than dipping fighter. A level in waves oracle to be able to cast obscuring mist and a revelation to see thru it and lo, you can use ranged sneak attack reliably. That's probably the easiest way to get to throwing lots of shuriken with sneak attack. Waves oracle 1 / ninja 4 might go
1: Point blank shot
Human: Precise shot
3 (NT 2): Pressure points
3: Rapid shot
5 (NT 4): Ki venom
5: Extra ki
if you multi-class then go for monk. at least let you flurry with shurikens,2 first levels get feats and have ki pool as well. you can go for far shot monk for nice ranged abilities or stay normal monk in which case the flurry with shurikens will also stack with rapid shot feat. (scaled fist unchained for cha for ac and other abilities etc)
a flurring ninja\unchained monk (i like unchained better, it only get +1 attack until higher levels but no penalty to hit and full bab) + rapid shot and the Flurry of Stars ninja trick can throw at level 5 1(normal)+1(flurry)+1 rapid+2(flurry of stars) = 5 stars as full round action, each with -4 to hit mind you.
@Zza ni: that's a lot of attacks. Enough to cost 230 gp of +1 shuriken per round on top of the 2 ki/round required. And unless it's in the first round and you beat the enemies' initiative, none of them will ever sneak attack. You don't have actions or means to do so.
Ranged sneak attack is difficult to set up and doesn't just happen. Flanking doesn't work, hiding or normal invisibility works only for the first attack (and hiding at effective shuriken range is iffy), means involving feats takes a lot of feats on top of those required for effective throwing.
@Art20: that's a feat or two (more later if VMC) which would be really hard to squeeze into any throwing sneak attack build.
And magic weapon targets only a single weapon. It's greater magic weapon which can target 50 ammo.
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If you're ok relying on magic items,
Saltspray Ring + Goz Mask + Sniper Goggles = Sneak attack only limited by weapon range and wind conditions.
Though, given the short range of shuriken the sniper goggles are likely un-necessary.
If you're ok relying on magic items,
Saltspray Ring + Goz Mask + Sniper Goggles = Sneak attack only limited by weapon range and wind conditions.
Though, given the short range of shuriken the sniper goggles are likely un-necessary.
Hurler barbarian + Extra Rage at 1st-level, then eyeing Belt of Mighty Hurling for your gear investment, lets you run a strength-based ninja who uses STR for attacks as well as damage, and enjoys a +20 to thrown weapon range increments.
If you can blind your target reliably, then it could be quite effective. Blind the target on the first round, then Focus fire with all you got the next round. Hide when you're done if it's still alive and strike with another sneak attack on the third round. This could be done on a lvl 7-8 character I guess, with clever multiclassing.
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Since, unlike starknives, which are festooned with oodles of goodies borne of unseemly writer love, or even the humble dagger, shurikens get basically nothing from official Paizo products aside from the Ninja trick Flurry of Stars, IMO the ninja's first and only job is getting his ranged Sneak Attack at-all-times gimmick -- whatever it is -- nailed down pronto. With FoS and Ki, he can throw three more per round than his BAB would normally allow, prior to any other feat considerations (e.g., Rapid Shot). Which ain't bad at all in conjunction with Pressure Points -- because reducing your opponent to a quivering, blubbering mass of helplessness at your tender mercy is a lot more fun than straight up demolishing them.
That, and recognize that there are other, more basic problem with Ninja that will need to be addressed (see Build Rationale below).
~ ~ ~
The Strong Ninja Switch-Hitter
STR+ 17
DEX: 14
CON: 14 (15,14,14,14,12,7 20pt array half-orc)
INT: 7
WIS: 12
CHA: 14
racial trait: Sacred Tattoo
character traits: Accelerated Drinker, The Vessel Between
01 Barbarian [Hurler/SavTech], Extra Rage
02 Ninja1 [SA+1d6]
03 Ninja2 [trick: Flurry of Stars], Power Attack
04 Ninja3 [SA+2d6], STR>18
05 Ninja4 [Uncanny Dodge][trick: Pressure Points], FEAT(g)
06 Slayer1 [Studied Target], Accomplished Sneak Attacker [SA+3d6]
07 Slayer2 ...etc.
Equipment: mithral breastplate, bardiche, katana, shurikens, smokesticks, meditation crystals, potions Enlarge Person, Belt of Mighty Hurling (Lesser), Wands of Longshot, Longstrider, etc. Bucket list: Lenses of the Predator’s Gaze, Goz Mask, Sniper Goggles, Slayer's Robe....
Build Rationale: the first thing we must do is realize that there are limitations to not only shurikens as a weapon platform, but also Ninja itself as one of the older, weaker, non-updated pre-archetype class options attempting to keep up with more recent, overpowered Hybrid and Occult choices. Since ninjas do not receive the Unchained Rogue's dex-to-damage, the class is IMO best used as a multiclass addition to a strength-based build that doesn't, for whatever other reason, dump charisma (but also isn't interested in being a paladin or a swashbuckler to exploit that ability score beyond bonuses to skills).
The example above adds ranged utility to a 2hPA bruiser without necessity of taking the usual build-suffocating mass of ranged feats. Therefore, we take the most goodies from Ninja that we can (skills, UMD, Ki, tricks, SA, Uncanny Dodge, eastern weapon proficiencies), and then move on before 5th costs additional loss of BAB.
Tactics: lay about with a polearm (ideally into flanking and/or from concealment, sometimes while Enlarged), but declare a full-attack at a -2 penalty if any solitary nearby opponent is already "wobbly"; if that opponent is dropped with a melee swat, then Flurry of Stars* two shurikens to attack distant targets using strength to hit.
Exploit #1: since the bonuses are untyped, Longshot, Hurler, and Belt of Mightly Hurling all stack to add +10 each to the throwing range increment.
Exploit #2: since shurikens are ammunition, we don't need Quick Draw, and can also maintain grip on our melee weapon while pulling and chucking them, then regrip the melee weapon as a free action.
Important note: As a non-caster, we still have to watch our ass in combat. E.g., even a straight-laced vanilla Magus with no book bits newer than 2011 will tear us apart if they can see us. So, creature-of-darkness tactics are still very much advisable here even as a strength build, especially during any kind of solo scouting action. We skulk around and get the drop from surprise, then run & repeat later if we don't win immediately.
Not without Ranged Flank, and a +10 BAB.
If you were to give up on the idea of throwing a whole bunch of useless stars, and just wanted to throw one deadly star... this would be much easier.
Startoss Style/Comet/Shower is a legit +2/4/6 static damage.
Weapon Master Fighter for 3 levels gives you Weapon Training, access to Advanced Weapon Training via feats, and a reason to use the excellent Gloves of Dueling... which would be another static bonus, to both attack and damage.
Ninjas can use poison, right?
One super deadly poisoned star, easy to set up and guarantee Sneak Attack damage. Super efficient, quick, quiet, and deadly... like a ninja.
If you can get the Fast Getaway Rogue Talent, and the Parting Shot feat, a Decoy Ring becomes your new best friend.
Plus, blasting the battlefield with darkness/mist/eversmoking bottle is often terrible for the rest of your party unless you have a Flame Dancing Bard in your group.
Can't find it right now but IIRC the feat which allows 'ranged flanking' just gives a +2 circumstance bonus to hit and not actual flanking. Ranged sneak attack in PF is really hard to set up short of improved invisibility and just assuming that you'll somehow get it sometimes is setting yourself up to fail.
The Ninja talent Vanishing Trick is a standard Sneak Attack set up and is incredible for a scout. Ranged Feint+Improved feint is another sneak attack set up which let's you make a single ranged sneak attack per round. I'd ask your GM if he would allow you to use the Unchained Ninja from Everyman Gaming.
I'd also look into the Flying blade Swashbuckler. Ask your GM if they're open to you modifying the archetype to be compatible with shuriken. Possibly trade out the starknife?
EDIT: Forgot to include Combat Expertise as a prerequisite for Improved Feint. When considering this detail a dip into swashbuckler becomes more attractive, in order to qualify for combat feats with charisma rather than intelligence.
AVR, it's called Ranged Flank...
Prerequisite: Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, base attack bonus +10.
Benefit: When attacking with ranged or thrown weapons from a distance of up to 30 feet, if the nearest adjacent space to your target is unoccupied and the opposite space is occupied by a threatening ally, you are considered flanking. Both you and your ally gain all the benefits of flanking, including +2 flanking bonus on attacks, rogues can sneak attack, etc.
Normal: Only characters in melee are considered flanking.
Found that feat VoodistMonk. You missed a bit at the end:
Section 15: Copyright Notice
Strategists and Tacticians. Copyright 2010, 4 Winds Fantasy Gaming; Author Ryan Costello, Jr.
I'm sure Paizo published a version which worked the way I said tho'.
Edit: found it when it was mentioned on another thread, enfilading fire. Close to my description anyway, and unfortunately way worse than your ranged flank because besides not giving real flanking it's a teamwork feat.
I'd go straight warpriest with TWF feats. Maaaaaybe two levels of slayer, ninja, or rogue for flurry of stars.