To answer this question we will reference the Eidolon section of the Summoner (taken from Unchained, note however this section in the original summoner is worded nearly exactly the same):
A summoner begins play with the ability to summon to his side a powerful outsider called an eidolon. The eidolon forms a link with the summoner, who, forever after, summons an aspect of the same creature. An eidolon has the same alignment as the summoner that calls it and can speak all of his languages. Eidolons are treated as summoned creatures, except that they are not sent back to their home plane until reduced to a number of negative hit points equal to or greater than their Constitution score. In addition, due to its tie to its summoner, an eidolon can touch and attack creatures warded by protection from evil and similar effects that prevent contact with summoned creatures.
A summoner can summon his eidolon in a ritual that takes 1 minute to perform. When summoned in this way, the eidolon hit points are unchanged from the last time it was dismissed or banished. The only exception to this is if the eidolon was slain, in which case it returns with half its normal hit points. The eidolon does not heal naturally. The eidolon remains until dismissed by the summoner (a standard action). If the eidolon is sent back to its home plane due to death, it cannot be summoned again until the following day. The eidolon cannot be sent back to its home plane by means of dispel magic, but spells such as dismissal and banishment work normally. If the summoner is unconscious, asleep, or killed, his eidolon is immediately banished. The eidolon takes a form shaped by the summoner’s desires. The eidolon’s Hit Dice, saving throws, skills, feats, and abilities are tied to the summoner’s class level and increase as the summoner gains levels. In addition, each eidolon receives a pool of evolution points, based on the summoner’s class level, that can be used to give the eidolon different abilities and powers. Whenever the summoner gains a level, he must decide how these points are spent, and they are set until he gains another level of summoner.
The eidolon’s physical appearance is up to the summoner, but it always appears as some sort of fantastical creature. This control is not fine enough to make the eidolon appear like a specific creature. The eidolon also bears a glowing rune that is identical to a rune that appears on the summoner’s forehead as long as the eidolon is summoned. While this rune can be hidden through mundane means, it cannot be concealed through magic that changes appearance, such as alter self or polymorph (although invisibility does conceal it as long as the spell lasts).
This specifically says that the Eidolons are, "treated as summoned creatures," except they are not sent back to their home plane when the duration of the spell that summoned them is over (because obviously they haven't been summoned by a spell) but instead are sent back to their home plane when other criteria is met (ie. -con score, banished, etc). So since summoned creatures are the actual creatures ripped from their home plane and forced to serve you for a limited time depending on the spell (ie. summon monster, planar binding, etc.) before returning to their home plane given that they have survived long enough for the spell to expire, Eidolons must be the actual creatures being summoned.
However it also states that, "The eidolon forms a link with the summoner, who forever after summons an aspect of the same creature," (Important to note that it then does away with the word aspect and refers to the aspect of the eidolon simply as the eidolon). What does aspect mean? Consider the following:
1. "The eidolon’s physical appearance is up to the summoner."
2. The eidolon can experience "death" and can be "slain" (specifically calling out those words and obviously referring to it reaching -con), and yet can return (be summoned) a day later.
3. It doesn't heal naturally unlike all other living creatures in Pathfinder.
4. "The eidolon takes a form shaped by the summoner’s desires," ie. the summoner chooses it's evolutions and gets to redecide them every time the summoner levels up.
5. The eidolon grows stronger as the Summoner does.
With these details we have to assume that aspect means that we are not actually summoning the creature.
In conclusion, there is a contradiction in the book where it both says you summon an aspect of the Eidolon (not the Eidolon itself), and that you summon the Eidolon itself and that is what makes the question posed in the title impossible to answer RAW. If it is the actual creature then why does it return to life after being slain and what does the verbiage about aspect mean? If it is an aspect then it does not in fact get, "treated as a summoned creature," and what exactly is being returned to it's "home plane" when dismissed or slain?
My guess is that it's an errant use of the word aspect.
When you use spells of summoning subschool you always summon an aspect of a creature from Outside, not the creature itself. If your summonend angel is killed, no actual angel is hurt. To actualy bring a creature from another plane, you'd need spells of calling subschool.
Summoning an eidolon is like spells of summoning subschool in most aspecs, except you always summon an aspect of the same creature, you have some control on what form it will take, and if this form is destroyed, it cannot be summoned again for a while.
I think you are looking at a distinction without a difference.
Choose whichever makes you happier.
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I have one example I like to look towards. The post may be a little old, but the one I go to is this one from James Jacobs as one way to think about it. While the "build your eidolon out of parts from other creatures" fits in more strongly with the old APG version, one could argue that an unchained devil eidolon is just made from several parts of different devils.
But honestly, I see it as up to the player in the long run. So long as you don't specifically go out there to find your eidolon in whatever form they hold on their home plane, it shouldn't be an issue.
1) The devil now known as Prisoner #129030 was one a powerful lord in hell, but lost all of his titles, and through them his power and very identity, buy going back on a contract in a grab for power. The tiny mote of essence that was his existence found its way to a summoner who specializes in 'rehabilitating' misbehaving outsiders. By making this do-or-die pact, the Prisoner was once again given flesh, though entirely on his Warden's allowance. Slowly but surely, through training and adventuring and good behavior, the prisoner is slowly earning back his former glory.
2) Hungry Wave Crashing Upon Faltering Embers is a water elemental that was pulled, quite unsuspectingly, into the service of his mistress. The merfolk known as Waverider Vashti interrupted a dark summoning ritual meant to call some horror from beyond the void into the seas of Golarion, in the process shifting its alignment towards the purity of water while using herself as the vessel. While slightly diminished in his potency, he is otherwise a fairly typical elemental.
My guess is that it's an errant use of the word aspect.
If that was the case it wouldn't answer the question posed in the conclusion.
When you use spells of summoning subschool you always summon an aspect of a creature from Outside, not the creature itself. If your summonend angel is killed, no actual angel is hurt. To actualy bring a creature from another plane, you'd need spells of calling subschool.
I did a lot of research and did not find anything that said that, what is your source?
When you use spells of summoning subschool you always summon an aspect of a creature from Outside, not the creature itself. If your summonend angel is killed, no actual angel is hurt. To actualy bring a creature from another plane, you'd need spells of calling subschool.I did a lot of research and did not find anything that said that, what is your source?
Core Rulebook, p. 209:
"Each conjuration spell belongs to one of five subschools. Conjurations transport creatures from another plane of existence to your plane (calling); create objects or effects on the spot (creation); heal (healing); bring manifestations of objects, creatures, or forms of energy to you (summoning); or transport creatures or objects over great distances (teleportation). Creatures you conjure usually- but not always- obey your commands."
There have been discussions what exactly is manifestation, but to my knowledge the consensus is that the real creature stays Outside and is not transported to the Material Plane (or the spell would be of calling subschool.
On the other hand, how many people want to play it that their eidolons have no memories of previous times they were summoned by their Summoners?
On the other hand, how many people want to play it that their eidolons have no memories of previous times they were summoned by their Summoners?
If that were the case I would think you would have to explain everything to the eidolon (such as introducing your party members and the like) every time you summoned it.
This what the 3rd edition FAQ had to say about summoning. And Paizo seems to follow the same way of thinking.
The descriptions for spells such as summon monster or summon nature’s ally say the summoned creature disappears at the end of the spell’s duration. What if a druid cast summon nature’s ally, then cast animal friendship on it and befriended it? It would still disappear, right, but would it attempt to find the druid? Is there an unstated range from which the spell draws the creature?
Summoned creatures aren’t really present; they dissolve at their original location, appear where summoned, then reform at their original location after the spell ends (see page 157 in the Player’s Handbook). If slain while summoned, it takes them a day to reform. In any case, they suffer no lasting effects (for good or for ill) from any summoning episode. If a character uses a summon nature’s ally spell to summon an animal, the caster could indeed cast an animal friendship spell on it. When the summon nature’s ally spell ends, however, the animal is gone, and it is no longer affected by the animal friendship spell. The animal’s Hit Dice also no longer count against the limited number of Hit Dice the caster can affect through animal friendship.
(Note: There's no way to actually break a cord in PF since Gith are product identity)
I know this off topic but I just have to ask: Why the hell didn't Paizo make any creature with the ability to break silver cords? Why even have them if that's the case?
Holdover text from 3.5.
Also an out to deal with a high level party abusing astral projection.
To be more clear, a lot of the early Pathfinder rules are just copy pasted from the 3.5 SRD. There are lots of places this can still show through.
The silver cord isn't originally a thing from D&D, it's taken from real world occultism.
On the other hand, how many people want to play it that their eidolons have no memories of previous times they were summoned by their Summoners?Quite a few considering how eidolons are commonly regulated for "big dumb barbarian" duty of setting off traps among other unsavory tasks.
I definitely felt bad whenever my summoner asked his eidolon to perform a suicidal task -- not because the eidolon would suffer any permanent harm, but because it would be painful -- and with that link between the two, his mind would be blasted with her mental screams.
The link lets you have the same player control both summoner and eidolon with no concern that the summoner might order the eidolon to do something against its nature (although the later Unchained Summoner raises the possibility of alignment based conflict between the two).
Why assume that it is the summoner who is the master? I had fun making it unclear which of the two was in charge.
Do people really usually play their eidolons like that? Seems super boring. My eidolons are usually fully formed characters with their own personalities and opinions.
On the other hand, how many people want to play it that their eidolons have no memories of previous times they were summoned by their Summoners?Quite a few considering how eidolons are commonly regulated for "big dumb barbarian" duty of setting off traps among other unsavory tasks.I definitely felt bad whenever my summoner asked his eidolon to perform a suicidal task -- not because the eidolon would suffer any permanent harm, but because it would be painful -- and with that link between the two, his mind would be blasted with her mental screams.
It's one of those things that gets lost in the wayside a lot like cyberpsychosis in Shadowrun. Sure, you're supposed to be losing your humanity as you drop closer to Essence 0, but that's just not as convenient/fun as having a chromed up Street Samurai with 0.1 Essence blending fools and acting like the rest of the boys.
It's ultimately the same with eidolons. It's easier to just treat it as a disposable pawn especially since they have no agency of their own and the connection bit has no real detail to it beyond class features.
You folks don't roleplay cyberpsychosis? Huh. It's kinda fundamental to the setting. And not roleplaying eidolons? Seriously? Well, there's no wrong way to play the game, I guess, but I'd have trouble finding the fun there.
7 intelligence isn’t that low and they have 4 skills per hit die, by default. That gives them more to do out of combat than the average fighter.