as blindsight doesnt state it needs line of effect to function and the flavor text does call out all non-visual senses being used, is there anything stating that in fact it does not work like tremorsense for the purposes of detecting burrowed creatures?
everything needs line of effect to function, unless stated otherwise.
Weables wrote: everything needs line of effect to function, unless stated otherwise. out of tremorsense, blindsense, and blindsight, only blindsense states it needs line of sight. tremorsense doesnt need line of effect to work so why would blindsight need to state it?
kinderschlager wrote: Weables wrote: everything needs line of effect to function, unless stated otherwise. out of tremorsense, blindsense, and blindsight, only blindsense states it needs line of sight. tremorsense doesnt need line of effect to work so why would blindsight need to state it? Monster Manual 3:
Blindsense second sentence:
The creature does not need to make perception check to pinpoint the location of a creature within range of blindsensem provided it has line of effect to the creature.
Blindsight third sentence: Invisibility, darkness, and most kinds of concealment are irrelevant, though the creatures must still has line of effect to a creature or object to discern that creature or object.
Both clearly state that line of effect is required.
Jared Walter 356 wrote: kinderschlager wrote: Weables wrote: everything needs line of effect to function, unless stated otherwise. out of tremorsense, blindsense, and blindsight, only blindsense states it needs line of sight. tremorsense doesnt need line of effect to work so why would blindsight need to state it? Monster Manual 3: Never realized that was written for pathfinder.
No, line of effect is not necessary, for the simple reason that nothing states that it is.
Jared Walter 356 wrote: kinderschlager wrote: Weables wrote: everything needs line of effect to function, unless stated otherwise. out of tremorsense, blindsense, and blindsight, only blindsense states it needs line of sight. tremorsense doesnt need line of effect to work so why would blindsight need to state it? Monster Manual 3:
Blindsense second sentence:
The creature does not need to make perception check to pinpoint the location of a creature within range of blindsensem provided it has line of effect to the creature.
Blindsight third sentence: Invisibility, darkness, and most kinds of concealment are irrelevant, though the creatures must still has line of effect to a creature or object to discern that creature or object.
Both clearly state that line of effect is required.
what's a monster manual? i'm talking about pathfinder, not D&D
kinderschlager wrote: Jared Walter 356 wrote: kinderschlager wrote: Weables wrote: everything needs line of effect to function, unless stated otherwise. what's a monster manual? i'm talking about pathfinder, not D&D oops. mistyped the reference (reverted back by my 3.5 days). However, those exact words are in bestiary 1 & 3.
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Jared Walter 356 wrote: kinderschlager wrote: Jared Walter 356 wrote: kinderschlager wrote: Weables wrote: everything needs line of effect to function, unless stated otherwise. what's a monster manual? i'm talking about pathfinder, not D&D oops. mistyped the reference (reverted back by my 3.5 days). However, those exact words are in bestiary 1 & 3. Here's your online reference: http://legacy.aonprd.com/bestiary/universalMonsterRules.html
Blindsense (Ex) Using nonvisual senses, such as acute smell or hearing, a creature with blindsense notices things it cannot see. The creature usually does not need to make Perception checks to pinpoint the location of a creature within range of its blindsense ability, provided that it has line of effect to that creature. Any opponent the creature cannot see still has total concealment against the creature with blindsense, and the creature still has the normal miss chance when attacking foes that have concealment. Visibility still affects the movement of a creature with blindsense. A creature with blindsense is still denied its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class against attacks from creatures it cannot see.
Format: blindsense 60 ft.; Location: Senses.
Blindsight (Ex) This ability is similar to blindsense, but is far more discerning. Using nonvisual senses, such as sensitivity to vibrations, keen smell, acute hearing, or echolocation, a creature with blindsight maneuvers and fights as well as a sighted creature. Invisibility, darkness, and most kinds of concealment are irrelevant, though the creature must have line of effect to a creature or object to discern that creature or object. The ability's range is specified in the creature's descriptive text. The creature usually does not need to make Perception checks to notice creatures within range of its blindsight ability. Unless noted otherwise, blindsight is continuous, and the creature need do nothing to use it. Some forms of blindsight, however, must be triggered as a free action. If so, this is noted in the creature's description. If a creature must trigger its blindsight ability, the creature gains the benefits of blindsight only during its turn.
Format: blindsight 60 ft.; Location: Senses.
ok, in that case, what constitutes a "line of effect"? for something that uses vibrations to "see" wouldnt a contiguous line of earth between them and a target count?
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Quote: A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line ofeffect is canceled by a solid barrier. It's like line of sight for ranged weapons, except that it's not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight
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I'd say the ground is a solid barrier.
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What blahpers said.
It would make utterly no sense at all for Tremorsense to require LoE as described above. The more solid the media the better Tremorsense would work. No mention of requiring LoE is made in the text of Tremorsense:
Bestiary, Universal Monster Rules wrote: Tremorsense (Ex) A creature with tremorsense is sensitive to vibrations in the ground and can automatically pinpoint the location of anything that is in contact with the ground. Aquatic creatures with tremorsense can also sense the location of creatures moving through water. The ability's range is specified in the creature's descriptive text.
Format: tremorsense 60 ft.; Location: Senses.
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