I've been playing the Pathfinder Kingmaker CRPG, and it has given me the urge to run a game using that Adventure Path. I have run games for other systems, such as IKRPG, Infinity, Shadowrun, Earthdawn etc.
I have never played Pathfinder previously however,and am unfamiliar with the goings on of the game - is there currently a playtest underway for the transition between 1.0 ans 2.0? Which Corebook would I be best off getting? What would be considered the minimalist materials to use? Is the Beginners box still worthwhile?
None of my players will have played before, so I think in terms of rules just the Core book will probably be enough for now, can always introduce more down the track.
I know from poking around in the Kingmaker part of this forum that a lot of the Kingdom Management rules got updated in Pathfinder Ultimate: Campaign, would it be worth grabbing this as well as the Kingmaker modules? I've already seena lot of cool ideas in that area of the forums.
If you have played dungeons and dragons 3.5 you will see many similarities between that and pathfinder. Books you will want besides the core book and the adventure path would be the game master guide(if you are the gm) the adventurers guide and any book that has the word advanced or ultimate in the name will give you good content for your game.
Should it be the Playtest Core book or the 1st ed one?
The only books you need is the adventure.
You can find all the rules you need at d20pfsrd.com or aonprd.com
chunky04 wrote: Should it be the Playtest Core book or the 1st ed one? I would recommend 1st ed Corebook, as the rules correspond with the avventure's assumptions.
The Advanced Players' Guide and Bestiary I are also good to have, but you can play without them.
enjoy!
I have a few years of Pathfinder, and like you have GMed and played Shadowrun and Earthdawn.
For the books to buy, you need the core rule book, for sure, and the actual Adventure Path. For the rest, it depends on your cash at hand, as it can quickly ruin you to buy all PF books.
With the SRDs, you can have access to quite a lot of content.
As you're new to PF, i'll first give you my opinion and advice, especially in comparison with SR/ED etc ...
Rule wise, PF is more complex, but more fluid than let's say SR. (SR is complicated, that is unnecessarely complex lots of times).
On the other hands, rules are quite deconnected from the fluff (contrary to early shadowrun games) so that's important to note.
Adventure Paths in general are very good. Compared to Shadowrun adventures, they are much longer, and much more "ready to play". As a former Shadowrun GM, i appreciate i need much less effort to run a PF game than i do to prepare a Shadowrun game.
BUT, for Kingmaker, you'll have actually lots of work to do, to flesh out the campaign, because it's much more open ended than other Adventure Paths, and while you can play within the "books boundaries", it'll feel like players are behind "invisible walls" at times ...
Also, while i LOVE the kingdom building campaign idea, really, it's something i've been looking for those last 20 years of roleplaying, i don't like it in the campaign (and my players didnt too)
Exploration is great at first, but then, you have so many "hexes to explore" that after some point, everyone is fed up with your description and improvisation, that you just roll and move to next hex, and roll and move etc ...
The whole kingdom building part is very tedious and needs so much book keeping that you don't have a lot of time to roleplay.
And then there is the AP story. I won't spoil, but lets say that the big bad evil ennemy in the end, appears in the last book (out of 6th), and even if the GM has some context in the previous books, you really don't see it's implications before the end of the story.
Also, note that Pathfinder is a game where story resolution is very often handled by a fight. In Shadowrun, usually, when you fight, it usually means you've been caught and have messed up something. In SR, "game balance" (i hate that term, but i can't find any other) is not very important. For exemple, a Great Dragon is a Great Dragon, you don't need stats for it. When you're getting shot at by a Baneshee, you're toast. In pathfinder, except for a few encounters, you're supposed to be able to overcome them each time. The adventure paths are actually very good at that, and if at first some fights are unchallenging, the more you progress, the more players need to think carefully when engaging ennemies. Improvising a fight is then much more difficult than in SR (because a ganger can prove to be dangerous in the right circumstances at high level, but not a goblin in pathfinder).
This leads to my advice : run and/or play a few games of Pathfinder before going with Kingmaker, because in my humble opinion, it's the adventure path that needs the most rework and additional work from the GM, which you won't be able to do if you're new to PF.
I know i might feel very assertive, i'd be happy to discuss this more with you if you're not convinced. I've played and GMed rpgs since the early 90's, that was ADD and Shadowrun, and Shadowrun is my favourite gameworld (but i hate the system, way too tedious) and i don't have time to invest in preparation like i used to.
Pathfinder is a great game, but very different.
It's easier to run, because the system is much more streamlined, and the adventure paths are more fleshed out, but from experience, when you start deviating from the books, it can be difficult to handle, and i did lots of campaign shattering mistakes in Pathfinder while improvising, because i didnt knew the game well enought.
Anyhow, have fun with Pathfinder, and i'm pretty sure the community can provide lots and lots of advices to run a good Kingmaker campaign should you head for it :)
chunky04 wrote: None of my players will have played before, so I think in terms of rules just the Core book will probably be enough for now, can always introduce more down the track. Actually, i would recommend using the full SRD content in terms of class and race, as contrary to SR or earthdawn, you're more or less stuck with your choices from level 1. (level based games are very different than skill base like in Shadowrun).
Also, as the PCs will start going up in levels, you'll see starting level 5, that casters start to be very powerfull (Shadowrun caster vs others is not even close to Pathfinder). Having access to certain feats, archetypes, options etc ... makes some concepts and classes more viable in the long run.
Also, don't make the mistake to think that by limiting magic items and gold, you'll reduce the caster/non caster gap. It'll be the complete opposite. While i hated the whole "magic item shop" idea in Pathfinder, i've came to see it as a necessity ...
Last, while in SR or Earthdawn, no PC should be able to tackle with stuff like a Great Dragon or Vergigorm, in Pathfinder, if it has stats, it'll be killed.
So to come back to the book, my advice is : whatever non third party on the srd, limit to core and uncomon races with 15 or less points, and you should be fine.
Maybe avoid occult and vigilante as they both have specific additional ruleset, while other non core class usually are just expansion of already existing mechanics.
You only need the adventure path books, the Core Rule Book and the Bestiary. Kingmaker was written for the current edition of Pathfinder, so it will not work with the playtest rules without conversion.
Brother Fen wrote: You only need the adventure path books, the Core Rule Book and the Bestiary. Kingmaker was written for the current edition of Pathfinder, so it will not work with the playtest rules without conversion. What he said. You need the AP books, the Core Rule Book -- current edition! not the playtest! -- and the Bestiary.
Also, be aware that a Pathfinder AP is pretty long. It takes an average group many sessions to complete. If you play every week for 4-6 hours consistently, you might complete a module in a couple of months, an entire AP in a year... maybe. The APs soften this by having most individual modules be self-contained; every time you finish one, you get closure on at least one major story arc.
I don't agree that you need to run PF scenarios first; if you're a reasonably experienced gamer, you can jump in. The first AP ramps you up pretty gently. It is very sandboxy, and that's a thing. If you have players who like proceeding on rails, that could be an issue.
Doug M.
Douglas Muir 406 wrote: I don't agree that you need to run PF scenarios first; if you're a reasonably experienced gamer, you can jump in. The first AP ramps you up pretty gently. It is very sandboxy, and that's a thing. If you have players who like proceeding on rails, that could be an issue.
Doug M.
Other APs are easy to get in, both for GM and players, but i think Kingmaker is different for the reasons i mentioned above.
You can clearly run Anniversary edition Rise of the Runelords "by the book" and have lots of fun.
If you do so with Kingmaker, it's going to be very tedious, and will feel very shallow. Building upon Kingmaker is doable, but i think it's difficult for a GM new to Pathfinder.
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The great thing about Paizo maintaining their forum is that you can visit the GM thread for any of their adventures. Before you even read book one, I'd recommend reading the entire GM Thread for Stolen Land. You will learn the areas where other GMs had trouble, get clarification from the developers and have the chance to lift good ideas from solid Gms that ran the game before you.
Then you can read the adventure book and all of the pieces will come together.
WATERFRONT! And I miss the brothel in Ultimate Campaign...
Kingmaker story: ditch the BBEG and make up your own.
Fights in kingmaker: often too lame and sometimes real hard for our group. Never fought three trolls with 3 level 4 characters before.
Darklone wrote: Kingmaker story: ditch the BBEG and make up your own.
I don't know that I agree with this, but there is some truth that the BBEG sort of pops up out of nowhere at the end.
The CRPG does a whole lot better including/foreshadowing the final nemesis from the beginning and a GM would be wise to incorporate some elements of that storyline.
The BBEG pops out of nowhere, but that's really easy to fix. And it's a long term problem. For your first few sessions? You don't really need to change a thing.
Doug M.
Your game will probably dissolve long before you get to book six. That's just the reality of running multi-part adventures.
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