do quickmetal bracers work with a monk’s unarmed strikes?


Rules Questions

Dark Archive

just as the title says :-)


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Seems like it'd work. And with no "unwieldy" penalty.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I would think these should also work on natural claw attacks with no unwieldy penalty?


Or you just use handwraps, and avoid pesky RAW/RAI debates.

As a GM, I'd allow it, but still impose the -2 penalty, because you aren't used to having your hand locked in position by a metal casing.


No Quickmetal Bracers don't.

Quote:
The user can cover a two-handed melee weapon or up to two one-handed or light melee weapons.

Unarmed-Attacks

Quote:
“Armed” Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character’s or creature’s unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed (see natural attacks).

The bracers need a melee weapon, and the unarmed attack is not such.

/cevah


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I'd say they do, though I'm not convinced they'd be worth the money:

The Monk rules wrote:
A monk’s unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.


Cevah wrote:

No Quickmetal Bracers don't.

Quote:
The user can cover a two-handed melee weapon or up to two one-handed or light melee weapons.

Unarmed-Attacks

Quote:
“Armed” Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character’s or creature’s unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed (see natural attacks).

The bracers need a melee weapon, and the unarmed attack is not such.

/cevah

Yeah, but a Monk's unarmed attacks count as manufactured weapons for the purposed of effects that enhance manufactured weapons.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Cevah wrote:

No Quickmetal Bracers don't.

Quote:
The user can cover a two-handed melee weapon or up to two one-handed or light melee weapons.

Unarmed-Attacks

Quote:
“Armed” Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character’s or creature’s unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed (see natural attacks).
The bracers need a melee weapon, and the unarmed attack is not such.
Yeah, but a Monk's unarmed attacks count as manufactured weapons for the purposed of effects that enhance manufactured weapons.
Monk wrote:
A monk’s unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

Two questions:

1) Is a magic item an effect?
2) Is a manufactured weapon either a two-handed melee weapon or a one-handed or light melee weapons?

Given this ambiguity, I would still say no.

/cevah


No bc the item states it only works with MELEE weapons and the unarmed strike is classified as a "simple unarmed weapon" per RAW.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/

RAI/IMO would allow it since "Unarmed" should be a melee-weapon-subset, not its own classification.

Scarab Sages

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FAQ wrote:

Magus: When using spell combat, can the weapon in my other hand be an unarmed strike or a natural weapon?

Yes, so long as the weapon is a light or one-handed melee weapon and is associated with that hand. For example, unarmed strikes, claws, and slams are light melee weapons associated with a hand, and therefore are valid for use with spell combat. A tail slap is not associated with a hand, and therefore is not valid for use with spell combat.

According to the design team, unarmed strikes and natural attacks are light melee weapons. That means the bracers should probably work even if it’s not a monk. That combined with the monk text about counting as a manufactured weapon should leave little doubt that they should work.


Ferious Thune wrote:
FAQ wrote:

Magus: When using spell combat, can the weapon in my other hand be an unarmed strike or a natural weapon?

Yes, so long as the weapon is a light or one-handed melee weapon and is associated with that hand. For example, unarmed strikes, claws, and slams are light melee weapons associated with a hand, and therefore are valid for use with spell combat. A tail slap is not associated with a hand, and therefore is not valid for use with spell combat.
According to the design team, unarmed strikes and natural attacks are light melee weapons. That means the bracers should probably work even if it’s not a monk. That combined with the monk text about counting as a manufactured weapon should leave little doubt that they should work.

They did NOT include natural weapons, and some unarmed strikes like a tail slap do not count. Also, Spell Combat is spells, not an effect.

I will admit, the barrier to use by rule is being eroded, but not yet gone, in my opinion.

/cevah

Scarab Sages

They included claws and slams. It's whether or not the attack is with the hand that matters (in the case of the Magus). That's probably a fair ruling on the armbands as well. But that doesn't mean that tail slaps, bites, gores, etc. aren't light melee weapons. They are. They just aren't light melee weapons associated with a hand.

Dark Archive

Cevah, you are wrong.

https://www.aonprd.com/ClassDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Monk wrote:

Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, ...

A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

Cevah wrote:

Two questions:

1) Is a magic item an effect?

A magic item causes an effect, and its description informs you of the details of how it works.

Cevah wrote:
2) Is a manufactured weapon either a two-handed melee weapon or a one-handed or light melee weapons?

A manufactured weapon can be any of those.

Cevah wrote:
Given this ambiguity, I would still say no.

What ambiguity? The wording is pretty clear.

https://aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Quickmetal%20Bracers Silver wrote:
The user can cover a two-handed melee weapon or up to two one-handed or light melee weapons.

As said here:

Ferious Thune wrote:
According to the design team, unarmed strikes and natural attacks are light melee weapons. That means the bracers should probably work even if it’s not a monk. That combined with the monk text about counting as a manufactured weapon should leave little doubt that they should work.


You do realize you are rebutting an arguement from over a year ago?


OTOH at least the person being argued with is still posting. I've seen far more pointless necros.


That is a valid point.


well natural weapons are considered light weapons ever since the core rule book.
they are just not manufactured weapons.
so said item should also work on natural weapons (used with the hands like claws. since it's specifically call out weapon in hands as the bracers melt and cover that so no bite.)

and monk attack is both natural and manufactured so ether way it's good.


Alternatively, one could invest in a Mithal Rose
It's silver only thou


zza ni wrote:
and monk attack is both natural and manufactured so ether way it's good.

No! A Monk's unarmed strike is never a manufactured weapon, and it's never a natural weapon. Beneficial "spells and effects" that apply to those can also be applied to the Monk's unarmed strike, but the basic classification never changes. You don't apply general rules, and triggered abilities don't trigger. This is an important distinction!

Cornebre wrote:

Alternatively, one could invest in a Mithal Rose

It's silver only thou

Or, instead of spending 9000gp on the item, you could spend 20gp on silver inlays for your handwraps. Man, that's a tough choice!


Derklord wrote:
zza ni wrote:
and monk attack is both natural and manufactured so ether way it's good.

No! A Monk's unarmed strike is never a manufactured weapon, and it's never a natural weapon. Beneficial "spells and effects" that apply to those can also be applied to the Monk's unarmed strike, but the basic classification never changes. You don't apply general rules, and triggered abilities don't trigger. This is an important distinction!

right right. no blacksmith made them nor were they in the monk's dna. the bracers would work with them ether way and that is the question asked by the op.


I guess the question is largely academic, since you could just use the quickmetal bracers on your handwraps.


The bracers only talk about "weapons", not "manufactured weapons", right?

So, Mithal Rose are for people with natural weapons... got it!

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