Say I am massively multiclassed, have multiple innate spells, have multiple items that allow me to cast shield, or some combination of the above. How may times can I have the shield spell knocked down?
Let's say I have a wizard with the shield cantrip, who is an elf that took shield as part of his otherworldly magic ancestry feat. On round 1 he casts shield off the wizard list (highest caster level). Later in the round he uses his reaction to block a magic missile attack, so he cannot use that cantrip again for 10 minutes. On round 2 he wants to cast his innate shield spell. What happens?
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thorin001 wrote: Say I am massively multiclassed, have multiple innate spells, have multiple items that allow me to cast shield, or some combination of the above. How may times can I have the shield spell knocked down?
Let's say I have a wizard with the shield cantrip, who is an elf that took shield as part of his otherworldly magic ancestry feat. On round 1 he casts shield off the wizard list (highest caster level). Later in the round he uses his reaction to block a magic missile attack, so he cannot use that cantrip again for 10 minutes. On round 2 he wants to cast his innate shield spell. What happens?
shield spell says "After you use Shield Block, the spell is dismissed and you can’t cast it again for 10 minutes." So it appears you can't recast it in round 2. Maybe if there was a way to get shield without casting it, like from an item.
I think the core questions are:
1) Can you take the same cantrips multiple times?
I.e. He chooses Shield as one of his Arcane cantrips. Then he uses an ancestry feat to choose Shield as another cantrips.
2) if the same cantrip (Shield in this case) can be picked up multiple times, are they on separate “cooldowns”?
So, in his case since he used his Class Shield, is his Ancestry cantrips Shield still usable?
i think no because:
1) Selecting these cantrips are added to cantrips known.
2) Cantrips don’t have a casting slot (personally, calling it spell slots is too confusing with spell books, spell repertoires, and spells learned).
3) Instead, classes/feats open up cantrips slots, but since cantrips are unlimited usage, you can’t pick the same cantrips multiple times.
There isn’t a Shield-A, Shield-B. It’s just...Shield. I don’t think the language lends to that nor do I think that’s the intention to have an unlimited spell be allowed to be selected for separate cooldowns.
Based off the Shield cantrip spell entry language itself, someone would just argue: but that was my Feat Shield cantrip, not my Class Shield cantrip, but I don’t think that’s intended.
I agree with Wizardsblade -- it wouldn't be any different if you had the shield spell/cantrip via multiple sources versus having one source. You cast the spell, you block, it gets busted, if you are casting the spell as the means to get it, you can't cast it again for 10 minutes.
But arcane is different than occult. And one is more powerful than the other. A shield cast from your primary class is the highest spell level you can cast. An innate spell or one from a multiclass is about half that.
Then you have choose whether your Shield cantrips is one of your main cantrips, or a side cantrip.
It doesn’t matter the tradition. If the cantrip is from your main class, you get full heighten. If you choose the cantrip from a multiclass or feat, you get a weaker heighten, but at least you have an additional cantrips than those who didn’t multiclass or choose that feat.
If you choose a cantrip from your main spell list and the same cantrip again from a different spell list, you still only have 1 cantrip...and I think it’s assumed that it uses the higher source for heightening. You don’t gain two Shield cantrips that are separately used. PF2E seems doesn’t allow duplicates, and if there are, it selects the highest at the time.
So let’s say you’re a Bard Half-Elf. You pick Guidance and Shield as your cantrips. You pick up Otherworldly Magic and choose Shield again as an arcane.
You have Guidance and Shield as your cantrips. You don’t have Guidance - Occult, Shield - Occult, and Shield - Arcane under your cantrip list.
thorin001 wrote: But arcane is different than occult. And one is more powerful than the other. A shield cast from your primary class is the highest spell level you can cast. An innate spell or one from a multiclass is about half that. All cantrips always have a spell level equal to half your character level rounded up, regardless of how you get them.
thorin001 wrote: But arcane is different than occult. And one is more powerful than the other. A shield cast from your primary class is the highest spell level you can cast. An innate spell or one from a multiclass is about half that. They are the same level.
All are spell level = 1/2 your level.
As an example, at 10th level, as a divine caster, your highest divine spell is 5th.
So divine cantrips autoscale to 5th.
At the same level, your innate Shield is level/2,so 5th as well.
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