There is the Phase Shield from core. It's clear they put a very big balance point on that extra point of AC.
I have looked into this, there is no traditional shield in any of the books,however, I have been toying with the idea of a tower riot shield that is made of adamantine and only provides partial cover.. there are magic items and armor upgrades that provide various defensive buffs they are definitely worth checking out. I hope this helps.
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If you are looking to increase your AC, just get better armor. If you have the highest armor you can get and still want more AC, you are kinda out of luck. I think the design of the game is to keep your AC in the hittable range.
If you are wanting a shield because it is part of your character theme, you can re-skin an appropriate armor upgrade. My favorite choice is the Deflective Reinforcement. DR 5/- seems like a great ability for a shield to have. Rampart Plates (heavy only) would actually increase your AC, but only when you use Total Defense or Withdraw actions (or when cowering, but who wants to build their character around cowering?).
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I feel like this discussion gets started every three weeks, and it usually goes like this;
OP: starfinder has no shields!
First poster: actually the phase shield and titan shield exist
OP: starfinder has some shields! But I want a physical riot shield
Second poster: more shields done exist because of balance reasons
Third poster: it's sci-fi we don't need shields
I feel like this discussion gets started every three weeks, and it usually goes like this;
OP: starfinder has no shields!
First poster: actually the phase shield and titan shield exist
OP: starfinder has some shields! But I want a physical riot shield
Second poster: more shields done exist because of balance reasons
Third poster: it's sci-fi we don't need shields
That is very accurate. As is the post about someone complaining about it.
So to break the theme: May I nibble upon one of your tender tendrils? They look tasty.| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The issue is that old shields are nearly useless. Look at the shields we do have. They are ENERGY SHIELDS. And they only give a... +1. Regular armor and weaponry is so advanced that normal shields just wouldn't be useful. What's a piece of plexiglas gonna do when you've got PLASMA being thrown at you? Or a flamethrower?
And besides that, look at even modern-day military and stuff. You do not see shields everywhere. In fact, they're kinda very rare. It's because there's almost no use for them anymore in modern conflict.
Riot shields are for defending from civilians with rocks and bottles. Not fully armed and trained mercenaries.
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And then keep in mind that the types of shields that would be able to handle the high-powered stuff that it'd be facing would be heavy. Modern ones are 20+ pounds. Combined that with the already considerable kit you're likely to be carrying, and having to rely on a pistol while you're fighting guys with rifles, and the fact that you can't even use that arm while carrying the shield...
All-in-all, no, a shield that OP wants does not belong in Starfinder for the same reason it doesn't belong in modern combat situations. It's just not worth it.
I don't know what your character normally does in combat, but...
Dropping prone gives you +4 AC vs. ranged attacks, keeping a character between you and them gives you +4 AC from cover.
Situational AC is very important.
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With the types of hardnesses that are presented in the books shields are going to me made of highly durable material. So having a shield should at the very least provide cover bonuses.
So a small shield that basically covers your torso provides a bonus equal to soft cover from ranged attacks in the direction you set it. If used to block Melee attacks it offers half that bonus but is no longer blocking range attacks till reset.
A large shield that covers your full body provides a bonus equal to improved cover from ranged attacks in the direction you set it. If used to block Melee attacks it offers the same bonus as the small shield but is no longer blocking range attacks till reset.
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But this would lead to crazy balance issues, where any four armed race can carry around cover (from 2 directions, or from melee and ranged) for itself and still use a bigger weapon than a pistol.
I'm going to agree that shields don't really belong in SF.
To be perfectly honest I really get tired of hearing for balance reasons (blank) is not used. Its a weak argument and for specific things i over look it. RPGs were at one point were played for fun and balance was nowhere on most of our minds.
With all rules someone is going to cheese the system to find a niche that makes them better than someone else in something.Easy solution to your example though cover bonuses don't stack and shields are either set or guarding not both. Does he get cover from 2 sides yes, just makes tactics more interesting for all parties. I like more complexity not less.
Could make them like the pathfinder playtest: require an action (probably the move one) to raise the shield to give you the benefit of +1/+2 circumstance bonus to AC.
As long as they took a move action to ready, I don't see it being too bad. Possibly with the addition that they don't provide a bonus when used with unwieldy weapons. Not taking a full attack and not moving seems like a decent compromise for +2 AC.
I'd probably say they take damage if the AC bonus is enough to save you from being hit, but make them cheap and high bulk. Just so it's not the go-to character option especially with four arms, but it's still something the party might want to grab if they know they're going into a sticky situation.
I think that's how I would run things if a player was dead set on using a shield.
And as for my class i am my parties resident spell caster, moving distraction and magic medic. Guns are nice, long arms are better, and heavy weapons make b&+@&s wet, but the power to liquify an enemies brain from 35+ feet away trumps all of them because magic is the ultimate stealth killer.
That light progected shield i can not use anyways i am restrictd to lightweight armor and am not level 6 yet. Maybe once i can get into that flying mech armor i will move ohh wait i wont have to. You can wear light armors in power armor. I will keep wearing my preferred light armor.
Garretmender you can drop to your belly if you want but i would rather take a more active stance in my defence by being highly mobile and taking cover. And dropping prone make you vulnerable to melee attacks. And takes a move action to get back up.
If you aren't in melee, are you still having trouble standing behind someone else and getting that +4 AC from cover? If not, is +4 AC still not enough for what you're fighting? Is your GM ignoring cover provided by creatures? I know we used to ignore most creature provided cover when my group played pathfinder, but I've been very strict about it for starfinder because of the generally lower ACs.
Obviously prone is for when you're fighting ranged mooks who aren't in charge range, but it's something to keep in the back of your mind for when it is useful.
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Balance is important insofar as it keeps the encounters challenging and keeps people in the same party on roughly the same level.
There is nothing fun about constantly cakewalking (or getting creamed
by) the enemy, or having to endure being the weak runt under the shadow of a superman in the party.
Ever since game designers started applying balanced mechanics to the game, the playerbase has expanded exponentially.
Shields of most any kind giving improved cover is ludicrous. Improved cover is for things like walls with tiny murder holes from which to shoot from.
Also, they got rid of facing for a reason. It overcomplicated things and slowed down play.
I'm not opposed to shields being added to the game, but many of the suggestions proposed in this thread are aweful in several levels for a variety of reasons.
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I totally see the balance argument for why introducing shields now would be a problem. I rather like the current monster hit rate; it's more exciting than Pathfinder where your AC is either way above or below the monster's to-hit. And Starfinder's stamina/healing system can cope with it quite well.
BUT... yeah if you're going to face monsters with teeth and claws, shields make sense. Modern militaries don't use a lot of shields but modern militaries don't face off against that many xenosaurs. Flavorwise, the case for shields existing is quite strong. If we have a whole lot of different material technology from which to construct armors (seriously, read the descriptions of the armors) then constructing effective shields should be possible.
The problem is really, what kind of mechanics to use for that, that wouldn't upset the balance?
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The issue is that old shields are nearly useless. Look at the shields we do have. They are ENERGY SHIELDS. And they only give a... +1. Regular armor and weaponry is so advanced that normal shields just wouldn't be useful. What's a piece of plexiglas gonna do when you've got PLASMA being thrown at you? Or a flamethrower?
And besides that, look at even modern-day military and stuff. You do not see shields everywhere. In fact, they're kinda very rare. It's because there's almost no use for them anymore in modern conflict.
Riot shields are for defending from civilians with rocks and bottles. Not fully armed and trained mercenaries.
Ballistic shields are completely a thing. However, you know what else you don't see in the modern-day military? Full suits of armor that can easily block damage while suffering no harm. Do you know what Starfinder has? Full suits of armor that can easily block damage while suffering no harm. So make shields out of whatever material armor is made out of. Should be a lot easier to get a solid, thick sheet of metal to block an attack than a fully articulated suit.
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I would hesitate to start playing with shield HP/hardness, because they're trying that in the Pathfinder 2E playtest and people don't seem to loving it *coughcough*. And it's one more fiddly thing to track.
Kasathas (and others with extra arms) don't get extra attacks or actions just because they have more arms. But you can certainly hold more stuff, like a shield. It would mean that kasathas can hold a heavy weapon, a shield and a sword at the same time - which is awesome!
I suspect introducing shields might actually have an interesting effect on game balance: it might make one-handed weapons more attractive. Currently, longarms are considerably better for most classes except operatives. But making having a spare hand more valuable (because you can hold a shield) could shift that a bit.
The next problem though would be how to make higher-level shields work. Because it doesn't make much sense to only have a level 1 shield that gives a +1 bonus, and no upgrade in sight. That's too weird compared to armors. But while it won't completely unhinge the game if players can get a +1 AC, getting more with higher-level shields would make the difference bigger and bigger and that could be a problem.
Possible way to balance *some* shield ideas: using a shield costs your swift action. You can't just have a shield hanging off your arm and expect to get benefit, you actually have to use it to defend yourself. This means no full attacks, and no attacks of opportunity ( among other things ). It also would neatly avoid the "a shield in each hand" problem.
Even then, I suspect anything more than +1 AC ( or +2 with substantial other limits ) would be broken.
You could have higher bonuses with enough drawbacks. No full actions is a good one. Abilities that increase damage for a single attack, like Mechanic's Overcharge, is another. Feat for prof to go with the "you actual have to use it" idea. Having it be another bar of HP instead of just AC gains could be interesting.
Maybe it goes from +1 all the the way to +10 with extra cool effects, like DR, extending cover across three spaces, etc. at the higher tiers.
Smaller shields need a move action, but provide much less bonus,maybe 1-4. Big ones provide those bigger bonuses, but you've got to use a standard to deploy it/pick it up.
Maybe just a deployable cover item instead? Like the barricade feat, and maybe helps that feat out?
I dunno. Incorporating shields at various levels beyond the basic is likely to be a whole new system and would require a lot of playtesting to wedge them into an already functional system.
I don't think I'd give them armor upgrades. Probably just special abilities based on shield type and tier. I think I like the move action to set up over a swift.
Such as:
Riot Shield, tier 1, when set +1 KAC & EAC
Cryoshield, tier 8, when set +2 EAC and resist fire 10
Force shield, tier 16, when set +2 to KAC & EA and DR 15/-, additional +4 to combat maneuvers that would move you.
It's a little unbalancing for the assumed action economy when it's a four armed race holding a shield, melee weapon and heavy weapon. But if shield bonuses to AC do not stack with cover bonuses to AC, and they tend to be high bulk items I don't think you'd see them everywhere.
Regardless of if i’m for or against shields, it does appear that no one is bringing up that shields from PF used to come with an armour check penalty.
That should 100% be a factor no matter on what style people land on for stats.
Regardless of if i’m for or against shields, it does appear that no one is bringing up that shields from PF used to come with an armour check penalty.
That should 100% be a factor no matter on what style people land on for stats.
I disagree. We shouldn't keep a mechanic just because it was in Pathfinder.
I think small shields eating your swift action and larger shields eating your move action, along with their bulk, would be more than enough to represent their cumbersomeness.
The problem as I see it with shields is that a lot of the AC bonus they would have provided is already baked into the AC of exiting armor for both PCs and NPCs. Adding another source introduces the ole + this and that creep that the game has taken a lot of pains to eliminate. It would absolutely change the balance as combat mechanics exist now and im not sure for the better.
While conceptually im all for shields my own group have wrestled with a good way to implement them as a house rule and ended up giving up on the issue as we never found a satisfactory way to go about it.
In a world where the majority of combat is ranged shields complicate things a lot. Make them movable cover and they start to feel almost mandatory and devalue several class abilities. Make them bonuses to AC and things start stacking silly high and it devalues Solarion armor greatly, not to mention the what do we do with multiple arm races issue.
To us the reason they don't exist in a serious fashion is pretty obvious. However if the designers decide to introduce them down the line I will be very curious to see how they went about balancing them.
Just give everyone line weapons, shield problem is solved...
Honestly, the way shields are currently balanced (+1 AC for an Armor Upgrade Slot) is pretty much made to specifically avoid nonsense like a skittermander with 6 shields becoming an unhittable juggernaut.
