Hello! Overall I'm really liking the Pathfinder 2nd Edition Playtest so far. Everything I've read is really solid and fun. However I came across my first concern that I think could warrant some discussion today. That concern is the crafting rules. It doesn't seem particularly useful to craft items right now.
Tier 1 Elixir of Life (@Level One)
30sp to Buy
15sp, 15 Days to Craft + 4 Days BaseTier 2 Elixir of Life (@Level Four)
120sp to Buy
60sp, 12 Days to Craft + 4 Days BaseIf you choose to work a trade during downtime instead of craft you can earn the same amount that you'd spend on crafting in the same amount of time.
Working a Trade (@Level One)
19 Days, 20sp?Working a Trade (@Level Four)
15 Days, 65sp?So if you're in a city with an alchemist, even if you can craft it there seems to be no real reason to if your GM is nice. You earn more in the same amount of time and can buy it for the same cost. Don't make much sense to me.
You're also talking a lot of downtime for a very small amount of healing. 1d8 | 3d6? I mean you get four in a batch, but that is a lot of days for such a small amount of healing items. HP is much higher in this edition so it seems questionable to me.
Given the amount of time it takes to craft an item it seems like you'd just want to buy it at full cost. Which is still better than crafting it at full cost because crafting takes 4 days. Meanwhile a nice GM is going to have the Alchemist's shop fully stocked.
I think these numbers might could use a second look. What does everyone else think?
Loving the playtest. Happy gaming everyone!
Why do you have such long crafting times listed for the Elixirs? Alchemical Items, like all items, just take 4 days to craft, as long as you meet the level requirements. And you can create them in batches of up to 4, as long as you pay the cost up front.
The only way you'd take that long to make them is if you wanted to reduce the cost.
Well, ofMars, downtime is supposed to be a lot more common in this edition than first.
As for the original issue, the real advantage is supposed to be having whatever you need whenever you need it, provided you can spare a few days. Having access to a fully stocked alchemy shop is not supposed to be the assumption anymore, and especially with the rarity system there are some items you're flat out not supposed to be able to buy at all.
Of course, crafting items below your level is also supposed to help a lot. Take a level 4 character crafting an Alchemist's Fire (Item Level 1, 300 silver cost, and useful for Alchemists at all levels.) You spend 600 silver to start producing a batch of 4 of course. Because your level is 3 higher than the item's level you hit base crafting time in only one day, and then you make your skill check. The DC for a level 1 item is baseline 14, and I doubt circumstances will make it any harder than that, while your crafting modifier is bare minimum +4, +5 if expert, and that's without applying Intelligence (which should be bare minimum 12 if you're an Alchemist, since no playtest ancestry is -Int). so you should be able to make that DC easily enough, and even have a chance of crit-succeeding it. If you don't crit-succeed it'll take you about 4 months at Trained (or a bit over 3 months Expert) to get those items down to half price unfortunately, 600 silver is a lot at that level. Even if you do Crit it'll be a smidge over 2 months Trained (almost exactly 2 months Expert) to do it.
Thing is though, like I said, an Alchemist's Fire (unlike, say, a Minor Elixir of Life or such) is always useful. So let's look at that same project at, say, level 10. Alchemist's Fire is still a level 1 item, so the DC is still 14, and the cost is still 600 gold to start crafting all 4. Now though, your modifier is going to be either 10+Int, 11+Int, or 12+Int based on your proficiency level. And remember, as an Alchemist you have bare minimum 12 Int, so at Master level you are literally rolling to not Nat 1 and probably crit succeed (you do so on an 11+, so 50/50 odds you crit.) But let's look at this from all 3 proficiency levels (durations counting the first day to reach minimum crafting time):
-Trained: 1/2 price in 21 days, 19 if you crit
-Expert: 1/2 price in 15 days, 11 if you crit
-Master: 1/2 price in 13 days, 9 if you crit
And then as a final point, let's look at level 15. DC still 14, possible modifiers are 15+Int, 16+Int, 17+Int, or 18+Int, you are literally rolling not to nat 1 regardless and even at Trained with 12 Int you have, like, 60% chance of crit-succeeding. So let's break it down now:
-Trained: 1/2 price in 7 days, 6 if you crit
-Expert: 1/2 price in 4 days whether or not you crit
-Master: 1/2 price in 3 days whether or not you crit
-Legendary: Same as Master
And then if you go 1 more level to 16, now both Master and Legendary are hitting 1/2 cost in 2 days on a crit. Another level and now you don't even need to crit, just don't nat 1. Now granted, these are high level games that few will reach, but as I said, if you do reach these high levels, as an Alchemist those Alchemist's Fires will still be useful.
Thats exactly my point though friend, why wouldn't you want to reduce the cost? Otherwise you're spending four days you don't have to if the GM is nice and has a friendly local Alchemist shop.
Because you may not be in a place with a friendly Alchemist shop? Or a shop at all? Also, AFAIK Uncommon Alchemical Items (ie, Mutagens and...Sleep Poison) aren't for sale either.
That and to be honest, crafting Alchemical items in downtime is, for an Alchemist at least, mostly worthless. Crafted items don't have the Infused trait, which means most (if not all) of the special Alchemist Class Features/Feats don't apply to them. You can't use Empower Bombs with a batch of Alchemist fire you crafted (or bought), so they're always level 1 bombs. You can't use Fast Onset or Extend Elixir with bought/crafted Elixirs, etc.
And as a last point, Crafting is one of those "Bad at low levels, very good at mid to high levels". By level 10, an Alchemist that's Master in Crafting can churn out a batch of 4 of any level 1 bomb for half price in 3 days, 2 if they Critically Succeed. Of course, the bombs are basically worthless to them as we just explained, but they can do it.