Halfling need some love


Ancestries & Backgrounds

The Exchange

From what i'm reading in the ancestry section, I can't find a single reason why anyone would play a halfling. They have nothing going for them.

Dwarves have HP.
Elves have speed.
Humans have customisations and great ancestry feats.

when you look at the "small races",
Gnomes have more HP and low-light vision than halfling for a reduced speed.
Goblins are exactly like halflings but have darkvison on top of that.

while halfling have... nothing.

What I propose is to give the halfling 2 more HP. They are the "humans" of small races. No special vision but decent base HP and moves.

As it stands, I see no reason except roleplay to pick halfling as my ancestry.

Please discuss ways to help them feel somethin other than "humans, but small"

Dark Archive

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Some of the halfling ancestry feats are pretty boss. Sure-footed gives you full speed balancing and climbing on successes, and distracting shadows gives a lot more opportunities to sneak. I wouldn't mind if Titan Slinger was changed to effect more than slings, because slings seem pretty bad.

Grand Lodge

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Philippe Perreault wrote:
What I propose is to give the halfling 2 more HP. They are the "humans" of small races. No special vision but decent base HP and moves.

I wouldn't be opposed to 2 more HP but the extra HP don't amount to much in the big scheme of things. I think ancestries need another balancing point besides starting HP.

For the highest HP race (dwarf) vs lowest (halfling, elf, goblin) fighter at level 5 and with con of 14 for both is 70 hp vs 66 hp, meh.


Gorignak227 wrote:
Philippe Perreault wrote:
What I propose is to give the halfling 2 more HP. They are the "humans" of small races. No special vision but decent base HP and moves.

I wouldn't be opposed to 2 more HP but the extra HP don't amount to much in the big scheme of things. I think ancestries need another balancing point besides starting HP.

For the highest HP race (dwarf) vs lowest (halfling, elf, goblin) fighter at level 5 and with con of 14 for both is 70 hp vs 66 hp, meh.

This could well be why the HP thing didn’t survive into PF1 - because I am sure this was a thing in either the alpha or the beta - indeed it was the only this I can specially remember from the playtest that didn’t make the final version (and we houseruled in for a long time)

It comes back to being able to get more out of what makes races really unique which is the feats and in that ideally means getting more at creation


The HP thing is relevant mostly at levels 1 and 2, which are the only ones that have the issue of having super low max HP that martial weapons can reliably oneshot you.

After level 3 that mechanics has done it's job already and doesn't need to be relevant.


Not fond Of the switch of stat bonus from charisma to wisdom. My favourite PF1 character in halfling sorcerer. In PF2, its changed to wisdom. Not a big thing, I guess, as I can use my free boost on cha, but still.


It's hard to admire halfling sneakiness when goblins over there can actually leverage sneakiness to make their target flatfooted in combat in a way nobody else can.

They do get that one handed spear though, that's kinda cool.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Completely agree, halflings get ripped off with zero racial abilities. And goblins came and stole their sweet spot as the small sneaky race as well.


The sling staff is a pretty boss ranged option.


I love the switch from Charisma to Wisdom, which makes so much more sense and distinguishes halflings a little from other ancestries. But the ancestry feats do not excite me, despite getting love from some theory crafters. They lack flavor (in the sense of character) in my view. They don't highlight the personality of the ancestry. That's my gripe


I like halflings as is. They have some nice racial weapons and their feats are great.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
chillblame wrote:
Not fond Of the switch of stat bonus from charisma to wisdom. My favourite PF1 character in halfling sorcerer. In PF2, its changed to wisdom. Not a big thing, I guess, as I can use my free boost on cha, but still.

I did think this was an odd choice, especially considering the iconic. The gnome, which retained the plus to charisma is the iconic druid and the halfling, who lost the plus to charisma, is the iconic bard.


Mergy wrote:
Some of the halfling ancestry feats are pretty boss. Sure-footed gives you full speed balancing and climbing on successes, and distracting shadows gives a lot more opportunities to sneak. I wouldn't mind if Titan Slinger was changed to effect more than slings, because slings seem pretty bad.

Look at the halfling staff sling. It is basically a heavy crossbow damage wise with faster reload. That plus titan slinger is probably pretty darn solid as a sling combatant.

Liberty's Edge

For me, the thing that kills it is darkvision. Halfling rogues (arguably the most iconic type of halfling) have to have a light source on hand as they sneak about, and that makes them kind of pointless.


It is a bit inconvenient that they can't see in the dark, but we can't expect every race to be able to do so. Distracting shadows seems to make up for the inability to scout unseen as they can remain hidden within the party regardless of terrain. I think halflings are in a good spot now that the goblin racial has been spread to all stealth users.


Darkvision goggles would also fix it.


Vision is pretty terrible atm until lowlight rework is done either way.

The way vision works, you may as well either have dark or none at all.

As a simple example, its objectively impossible to sneak in a dungeon/house/cave/closed space using concealment if you don't have Darkvision:

All artificial Light sources only produce bright light, so every inch of terrain that's not under the sun/moon is either bright light (so no concealment) or darkness (you need Darkvision).


Agreed, but just to point out P1E lighting/vision was itself pretty janky, with poor handling of distinction of point-sources vs. 'global' lighting, and problems with rules split up in different places despite an actual large amount of repetition. The current playtest rules seem inclined to avoid the old problems, at least.

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