Divine Bond Twice on a single weapon


Rules Questions


This seems really unlikely but I couldn't find an explicit example of it saying no. Is it possible to use divine bond on the same weapon twice. Say you get a +4 divine bond. you use it twice so your weapon has a +4 enhancment bonus and also has keen and speed?
Thanks


I'm confused by your question.

You can only have one instance of divine bond active at any time.


Why are there 13 instances of this thread?

Scarab Sages

Shikaku Kyouryuu wrote:
Why are there 13 instances of this thread?

Trying to stack bonuses from the same source?

(Flagging a few of the others as duplicates).


Divine bond gives you a spirit you can call into a weapon. If that spirit is capable of granting +4 worth of bonuses, that's what you get. You can't call another spirit to get more because you're only bonded to one.

Liberty's Edge

Yeowzah! That might be the most times I’ve ever seen someone post the same question so many times in a in a row ...


You can usually only get one bonus from the same source at a time, so you can't reactivate divine bond onto the same weapon and maintain the previous one.


There is a cap on the ability that grows over time. It's a hard cap.

So no.


Answer is no but dang those other 11 threads, hope the mods can deal with them.


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:

Divine bond gives you a spirit you can call into a weapon. If that spirit is capable of granting +4 worth of bonuses, that's what you get. You can't call another spirit to get more because you're only bonded to one.

you're actually bonded to your god not the spirit. the bond with your god allows you to call a spirit. nothing in the Divine Bond entry prohibits you from using it more than once on different weapons or the same weapon. if there is a rule that prevents this it is from outside the divine bond rules.


"The bonus and properties granted by the spirit are determined when the spirit is called and cannot be changed until the spirit is called again."

This line strongly implies that it is a singular spirit you are calling on that can give a total amount of enhancements, and if you call it again (before the duration is up), it removes the old bonuses and provides the new one (hence 'changed').


sure you could read it that way. or you could read it as the spirit can't change bonuses during the duration for free you have to expend another use and that spirit is also stuck with whatever bonuses are assigned. both are valid interpretations. mine seems to make fewer assumptions.


I suppose if you don't count assuming that there are multiple spirits that you can call, rather than the singular one that the entire ability seems to strongly imply as an assumption then that is true.

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Hmm, I retract my statement about having a single spirit, since

FAQ wrote:

Paladin, divine bond: Can I expend two daily uses of this ability to enhance two of my weapons or both sides of a double weapon?

Yes.

(Too bad they didn't say whether you can do that in a single action, it seems important---but that's OT.)


That FAQ does say mean you can have multiple ones up at once, so the whole single spirit thing is wrong, and I was mistaken about that.

Given that, I can't see any reason why you couldn't use it multiple times on a single weapon for different abilities.


Yay, I can see the thread in my feed again!

It looks like the thread may have been "hidden" for some users after the merge. It should be possible to add it back to your feed by clicking the button to show hidden threads, then un-hiding it. Let us know if you run into any other issues.

Of course, if you haven't seen that already the thread is still hidden for you so you won't see this post... hmm... oh well, best I can do.


Looks legit. As legit as using multiple varying evil eye hexes or bestow curse spells. Multiple uses wouldn't stack enhancement bonuses with each other, but differing properties plus a single enhancement (plus whatever enhancement and/or properties the weapon already had) would work fine.


I fail to see how it is legit. Double weapons and two weapons are not the same thing as using bond 2x and having them stack in any way on a weapon. The FAQ doesn't apply to this question.


There's dual enhancement

http://www.archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Dual%20Enhancemen t


Which is great for saving a single use on divine bonds for those kinds of characters.

Still no reason to have it stack x2 on the same weapon


Abilities of the same kind simply can not stack on the same thing.


doomman47 wrote:
Abilities of the same kind simply can not stack on the same thing.

This is not strictly true, so long as each instance of the ability is doing something different.


"This doesn't violate the general rule for stacking penalties--each evil eye effect is basically a different source,"

I'd say it strictly IS true as the very faq linked says

1. Must be a different source
2. Evil eye is considered that.

Divine bond is not on either account. Therefore the FAQ doesn't apply.

However, thank you for linking an FAQ that proves the point.


There's nothing particularly special about evil eye that makes it work that way--note that bestow curse is mentioned as another example. By the same rationale, each divine bond is a different source so long as it has a different effect.


Penalties generally do stack with one and other, buffs and boons however specifically require the ability to state that they stack with similar things. Lets take buffs to ac for example, dodge bonuses state that they stack together for the total value they bring to ac, shields however do not have such language so it doesn't matter if you are wielding 1 or 100 heavy steel shields you are still only getting a +2 to ac, Divine bond lacks the language required for the ability to stack with itself there for it can not do so.


doomman47 wrote:
Penalties generally do stack with one and other, buffs and boons however specifically require the ability to state that they stack with similar things ... Divine bond lacks the language required for the ability to stack with itself there for it can not do so.

Just to throw a monkey wrench into this argument:

These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon bonuses to a maximum of +5, or they can be used ...

But even if they don't stack with themselves a 9th level Paladin could use one bond to give his weapon a +2 bonus and another bond to give his weapon the Disruption special ability. These bonuses aren't stacking with each other, they're doing different things.

Also it's worth noting that penalties don't usually stack in the same way that bonuses usually don't, as I found out in a RECENT THREAD (I thought the same as you).


MrCharisma wrote:
doomman47 wrote:
Penalties generally do stack with one and other, buffs and boons however specifically require the ability to state that they stack with similar things ... Divine bond lacks the language required for the ability to stack with itself there for it can not do so.

Just to throw a monkey wrench into this argument:

These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon bonuses to a maximum of +5, or they can be used ...

But even if they don't stack with themselves a 9th level Paladin could use one bond to give his weapon a +2 bonus and another bond to give his weapon the Disruption special ability. These bonuses aren't stacking with each other, they're doing different things.

That line only allows it to stack with the bonuses already on the weapon not from those granted by this ability or a similar ability.


Divine Bond being a spell-like ability, spell stacking rules apply.

Stacking Effects wrote:

Spells that provide bonuses or penalties on attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and other attributes usually do not stack with themselves. More generally, two bonuses of the same type don’t stack even if they come from different spells (or from effects other than spells; see Bonus Types, above).

Same Effect with Differing Results

The same spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. Usually the last spell in the series trumps the others. None of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell in the series lasts.

Therefore, applying two instances of divine bond with different effect won't stack. But say the one being used get dispelled for some reason, the first instance would then apply.

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