Same as title. I would think that it does actually create grease and could possibly be ignited by fireball or spark. And the material component is Butter...
Nope. If it was flammable they'd point it out like they do in the Web spell.
Sounds good, thanks :)
You stumbled into an old arguement here. The way we (my gaming groups) always compromised this is as follows:
Grease does not ignite from sparks, twigs, thrown torches etc.
However.......
If someone was under the effect of a grease spell and the area is placed under intense fire: (Fireball, molotov cocktail, etc) then since the spell clearly states that it IS grease, and grease would burn, we had it cause 1d6 extra damage.
It's a house rule, but it gets you out of the "if it doesn't explicitly say it in the spell it can't happen" people vs the "grease is just like gasoline wanna go down in my garage and see?" people.
Logically, Grease is flamable. RAW, it doesn't say its flammable so it isn't.
I use the rules for Lamp Oil in regards to grease fires, but thats a house rule. As a note, Grease can be augmented by Mythic Power to be flammable.
It isn't but we have a fun houserule. At the start of a campaign, roll a d100. That is how ignitable Grease is. We got a 99 one campaign and well, we caused more than a few explosions.
Not all greases are flammable, for example fluorinated greases. As said by others above, The Grease spell does not state that the grease is flammable so it isn't. I imagine that the grease produced is something based on polytetrafluoroethylene.
You think it's more likely that the grease in the grease spell is Teflon? Rather than the normal definiton of Grease which is soap and oil?
Seems.....a stretch.
There are plenty of fluorinated greases sold over the countertop, especially for automotive applications. It is no more of a stretch than twiddling your fingers while holding a bit of something and uttering some noises produces a bucket full of the stuff.
i believe the stretch is implying that "medieval" people had knowledge of fluorinated greases. i don't know enough about medieval history or claim that pathfinder is particularly historically accurate though so i have no horse in this race. just seemed like i could clarify something so i did.
i believe the stretch is implying that "medieval" people had knowledge of fluorinated greases. i don't know enough about medieval history or claim that pathfinder is particularly historically accurate though so i have no horse in this race. just seemed like i could clarify something so i did.
Can confirm, fluoroethers and fluorinated greases are 20th century inventions; research into them might have been in effect at the late part of the 19th century. In essence, unless your campaign allows for (primitive) combustion engines, it probably wouldn't be advanced enough for these.
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Or, for that matter, magic grease. Since it's magic. : )
What if we look at this from the other direction. Since grease (as per what's created by the grease spell) isn't flammable, can it be used to put out fires?
Not all greases are flammable, for example fluorinated greases. As said by others above, The Grease spell does not state that the grease is flammable so it isn't. I imagine that the grease produced is something based on polytetrafluoroethylene.You think it's more likely that the grease in the grease spell is Teflon? Rather than the normal definiton of Grease which is soap and oil?
Seems.....a stretch.
Given that:
The rules don't list the grease from a grease spell as being flammable.
And that
Augmented: You can expend two uses of mythic power to make the grease flammable. It ignites from any fire at least the size of a candle flame. If a greased area is ignited, any creature in the area on your turn takes 1d3 points of fire damage and might catch on fire. If a greased creature is ignited, it takes 2d6 points of fire damage, and might catch on fire; add your tier to the save DC.
is a thing that wouldn't exist if the default was already flammable, then yes. (Or maybe its adamantium grease, or magic based based grease, who knows).
The rules don't care if it makes sense, but as we are in the rules forum.... we should be stating what the rules are, then if you want you can say "but we house rule it to X".
What if we look at this from the other direction. Since grease (as per what's created by the grease spell) isn't flammable, can it be used to put out fires?
No, the spell description does not list fire extinguishing among the effects of the spell.
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No, the spell description does not list fire extinguishing among the effects of the spell.What if we look at this from the other direction. Since grease (as per what's created by the grease spell) isn't flammable, can it be used to put out fires?
Strictly speaking, neither does create water......
GM fiat. It's unclear exactly how much grease is being created--a thin film might be enough to produce the slippery effects of the spell but insufficient to smother a fire of any meaningful size.
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Most GMs would sensibly rule that a Grease spell cast on a creature on fire is going to have no effect as the spell doesn't say it will smother fires, use Create Water.
Call of the Void has similar issues.
you call this sensible, i call it nonsense. create water also says nothing about smothering fires. if you let it work, it's because you're treating the conjured _____ as actual _____, not because you're following the spell description, which is correct because conjuration spells move real things from one place to another. so when you hit a burning man with grease, it's either flammable grease or it's not (unspecified so GMs discretion). if it's flammable grease, it ignites. if it's not flammable, it should smother the (non-magical) fire (unless it's somehow capable of allowing air to permeate it, but not because it's "magical" grease because that's not how conjuration spells work). similarly, call of the void creates an aura of vacuum around you. if there isn't oxygen and living creatures have to risk suffocating, then there isn't oxygen to support a fire. that is being sensible. the thing you said is being inflexible and nonsensical.
No, the spell description does not list fire extinguishing among the effects of the spell.What if we look at this from the other direction. Since grease (as per what's created by the grease spell) isn't flammable, can it be used to put out fires?
Strictly speaking, neither does create water......
This is an interesting question, actually. On the surface (no pun intended), there doesn't seem to be any way the Grease spell could put out a fire; the volume of material generated by the spell is very small (if the grease was 1/8" deep, the spell would create just over a gallon of the grease. Pouring that over a flame would be rather ineffectual.
But this grease is spread out over the 10x10 area (presumably evenly), coating the surface of the material being greased. That introduces a barrier between the fire and its fuel. The grease isn't flammable, but the question becomes: is it vaporable? How long would it take for the flame to vaporize the grease and remove it as an impediment? (This assumes that the grease even can be removed while the spell persists.) It would take longer, I think, than the flame will survive unless it's a magical flame such as a Wall of Fire. Just like sprinkling dirt over a burning object (slowly enough as to not smother the flame outright, but simply to bury the object) will put out a fire, so would covering it with this grease.
So, if we accept that the grease cannot catch fire, then the logical ruling is that, if used on an object which is on fire but not continuously exposed to an external source of flame, that fire would be extinguished within one round due to a lack of oxygen. (Note that Grease only covers one side/surface. A burning wall or roof extinguished on one side by the grease spell could still be burning on the other side!)
If the object coated with Grease is exposed to an external source of flame such as a Wall of Fire, Remorhaz, etc., you must decide whether you believe the Grease can be vaporized by the heat, or whether it will persist for the duration of the spell. If the former, then the Grease will be burned away by the heat after a period of time, and then the object can again catch fire. If the Grease is sustained by the spell, then the object cannot signficantly burn so long as the spell persists due to a lack of oxygen. However, the Grease may still become boiling hot, so dousing yourself in Grease to avoid immolation may not provide quite the protection you're looking for, and it may still permit heat to pass through, melting metal, glass and similar objects (just not setting them on fire.)
Grease should not be able to douse any magical fire effect which is not dependent on oxygen--Continual Flame, flaming weapons, etc.
(RAW is exactly as presented by Azothath has presented; not flammible but also doesn't extinguish, Call ofVoid is more about the magical energy that affects living creatures in a particular way, and create water merely creates normal water, which you can do with whatever normal water can do)
why can't the grease extinguish fires but the water can? both are conjuration creation so RAW the grease is no more magical than the water created by create water. both spells create real stuff.
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There isn't enough information in the spell description to decisively support a yea or nay answer to whether or not grease can smother a fire, fill a jug, or drown a baby. That's up to the GM, and no one answer is any better than another. This particular back and forth serves little purpose.
There isn't enough information in the spell description to decisively support a yea or nay answer to whether or not grease can smother a fire, fill a jug, or drown a baby. That's up to the GM, and no one answer is any better than another. This particular back and forth serves little purpose.
QFT
I agree, anytime a spell is being used to accomplish a task that's not specified in the spell it's up to the DM to determine what the effect is. There is a strong argument that since mythic grease is specifically flammable, then the grease spell isn't. Things that are not flammable will have varying degrees of success putting out fires, depending on the size and magicality of the fire in question.
I mainly brought up create water because I've had players use and/or attempt to use this spell to put out fires more times then I can count. However, like the grease spell no where in the spell does it state that it can be used this way.A similar ambiguity exists with how the spell glue seal interacts with fire.
IMO, grease shouldn't be flammable but you should be able to use it's effects to put out non-magical fires for the area it effects. I would be fine with players using grease in such a creative way. Instead of saying "no" every time players try to use a spell in a way that is not covered specifically in the spell description.
I would argue that they are not equally magical, and that the substance produced by grease is more magical than that produced by create water. They are both Conjuration, but Create Water is instantaneous (and thus the water is independent of any magic one manifested) and Grease is not (and thus ceases to exist after the magic can no longer sustain it).
no, i said they're equally non-magical, but now that i think about it i may be remembering an old dm's explanation about the fundamental difference between conjuration and evocation. i think you're right.
I mainly brought up create water because I've had players use and/or attempt to use this spell to put out fires more times then I can count. However, like the grease spell no where in the spell does it state that it can be used this way.A similar ambiguity exists with how the spell glue seal interacts with fire.Do you mean you don't allow a player to create water like, above a fire to douse it?
Or do you mean that even if the player cast the spell into a bunch of buckets, they couldn't use said buckets to throw the water onto a fire to put it out?
as mark stated above, when I'm GMing I've allowed create water to be used to put out non-magical flames in a single square. However, I've been a player in games and have seem GMs disallow such a use of the spell stating that it can't be used in that fashion, either because it doesn't create enough water or because you can only use it to fill a container.
Looking at the rules stated above, it looks like the effectiveness of create water in this application is entirely dependent on the caster level of the character trying to do it.
This also shows that if we assume grease from the grease spell is non-flammable a single casting directly on the fire probably won't work since the grease would have to be at minimum 3.6 ft thick (this assumes the 10 foot square can not be concentrated into a single 5 ft square, if it can, divide that number by 4), which seems unlikely. However, you could use a greater grease spell (or multiple castings of grease) to extinguish a fire by surrounding it.
One effective strategy for extinguishing a fire quickly is to surround the burning area with nonflammable material.
The material component for the spell is butter. Butter does burn but is solid at room temperature and you generally have to melt it first. I'd say it's unlikely that it's going to burst into flame if you apply a torch to a greased up area or person. It will make that teammate of yours extra tasty to the critter that is grappling and trying to swallow them whole though. ^.^
Of course there is nothing saying that the material components dictate the way a spell behaves but it's reasonable to say the grease spell acts like butter more than it does a fluoroether or fluorinated grease IMHO.
(this assumes the 10 foot square can not be concentrated into a single 5 ft square, if it can, divide that number by 4)
seems potentially doable. if we assume the amount of grease created by one casting is consistent, then you could target "the fire" to concentrate the grease. regardless, i still don't think you have enough grease.
The material component for the spell is butter. Butter does burn but is solid at room temperature and you generally have to melt it first. I'd say it's unlikely that it's going to burst into flame if you apply a torch to a greased up area or person. It will make that teammate of yours extra tasty to the critter that is grappling and trying to swallow them whole though. ^.^
Of course there is nothing saying that the material components dictate the way a spell behaves but it's reasonable to say the grease spell acts like butter more than it does a fluoroether or fluorinated grease IMHO.
Agree. thus the house rule that while it doesn't particularly ignite easily, it does burn under fire.