Are there sunglasses in space?


General Discussion


Or other ways to mitigate light sensitivity?


There's no officially-published device that I can find to stop light sensitivity. But, unless you're the Space Goblin Monark, it doesn't really matter---that's the only being with light sensitivity in the Starfinder universe.

Now, if you have light blindness---either you're a drow or got the wrong (or right?) mutation from a hesper---there still isn't any published device that directly mitigates it, but a shadow orb, or anything that reduces the light level down from "bright light", will help. The create darkness ability can help, but not if the light is magical.

Or, perhaps there's some other name for the weakness you're asking about, and I'm not thinking of it.

[Side note: There's no darkness spell in Starfinder. I'm surprised.]


It was Light Blindness I meant, thanks for the catch.


While there isn't an 'official' answer to this question, I'd like to point out the following two things.

1. In the CRB and SRD, under technological items, it's mentioned that...

Quote:
Of course, there’s a vast array of technological devices available in most settlements—well beyond the number that could possibly be presented in any real-world book. In general, any minor piece of equipment with a real-world equivalent (alarm clock, camera, digital keys for Vehicles you own, timer, watch, and so on) can be purchased with GM approval, costs 5 credits and has light bulk.

I cannot imagine that an advanced society with industry and some semblance of capitalism hasn't seen the demand for 'sunglasses' (whether from light sensitive races or no) and not invented them. Since a smart phone costs 7 credits in this universe, 5 credits for a pair of effective and stylish sunglasses seems about right.

2. In the CRB and SRD, under Armor, it's mentioned that...

Quote:
Space can be an inhospitable place, with countless dangerous worlds within it. Unless otherwise specified, all armors protect you from a range of hazards to ensure that you can survive for at least a few days if you must make emergency repairs to the hull of a Starship, explore an alien world, or endure exposure to an environmental breach in a space station. Some armors do this through an environmental field (a minor force field specially attuned to pressure and temperature that does not reduce damage from attacks), while others can be closed with helmets and airtight seals.

and...

Quote:
Most suits of armor consist of a helmet, gloves, boots, and a bodysuit that offers head-to-toe protection.

Now, I've seen an actual honest to god real life space suit once, close up, in person, and I can say that the 'solar shield' thing on a helmet that astronauts have to have to keep from going blind when working in direct sunlight in a vacuum is about as light blocking as a welders mask (maybe more). There's no way a future space suit is going to get around that same requirement (unless the species is naturally blind or has some evolved ability to block that bright light naturally).

So, my conclusion is, that a light sensitive race wearing armor with their environmental protection up never need worry about it, and they can buy a 5 cr pair of sunglasses to negate the effect for when they aren't.

That isn't RAW, mind you. Maybe we'll get something more clear in Armory, but until then, I find that a reasonable interpretation of RAI and common sense.


Theres a part in the crb that there are too many items to list everything in it so any item that you can get that is a "normal" everyday item can be bought for 5 credits. It is the last paragraph in the tech section.

the CRB says wrote:


Of course, there’s a vast array of technological devices available in most settlements—well beyond the number that could possibly be presented in any real-world book. In general, any minor piece of equipment with a real-world equivalent (alarm clock, camera, digital keys for Vehicles you own, timer, watch, and so on) can be purchased with GM approval, costs 5 credits and has light bulk.

Even pathfinder had sunglasses though they are magic items and so they were rare. So if they had magic glasses/goggles that helped shade ones eyes then starfinder several thousand years later would figure out how to make them non magicly since that seems to be the trend. Sorry if i came across as snapish i have not slept yet so i am a little tired.


This came up at my table and we handled it in exactly the manner Pithica and ghostunderasheet suggested. I think I charged the PC 10 credits for a pair of sunglasses that can autodarken or un-darken so that the light level is always reduced by one step. And we handled the environmental protection afforded by armor the same way during a spacewalk episode.


Awesome, cheers peeps.


RAW: Light blindness, despite the name, affects creatures when they are "first exposed to bright light" or "as long as it remains in an area of bright light". It doesn't say anything about whether or not they can actually see the light. :-) Maybe it's really a skin thing.

Personally, I don't know that I'd allow someone to mitigate the weakness with a simple 0-5 credit purchase. I'd have to think about it.


Well if its a skin thing there is also skin lotions. We have sunblock now. Surely they have something like it in starfinder thats common. They have future science augmented with magic or vice versa.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Distant Scholar wrote:
Personally, I don't know that I'd allow someone to mitigate the weakness with a simple 0-5 credit purchase. I'd have to think about it.

That's sort of how I feel.

If I was the GM I would either homebrew an armor upgrade/ cybernetic that's probably a little over half the cost of a dark vision/ low light vision equivalent or maybe rule that they can mitigate with glasses but lose there keen senses perception buff while wearing it.


PawnJJ wrote:
Distant Scholar wrote:
Personally, I don't know that I'd allow someone to mitigate the weakness with a simple 0-5 credit purchase. I'd have to think about it.

That's sort of how I feel.

If I was the GM I would either homebrew an armor upgrade/ cybernetic that's probably a little over half the cost of a dark vision/ low light vision equivalent or maybe rule that they can mitigate with glasses but lose there keen senses perception buff while wearing it.

I don't wear sunglasses. But how do they hamper one's vision? I know fishermen who wear sunglasses to cut the suns reflection off the water so that they can see the fish underneath. It never worked for me. And i never really liked river fishing anyways.


Those are polarized sunglasses, which cut the glare from pretty much everything by using magic. Or science? I'm sure someone who won't have to look up how they work will be along shortly.

As far as light sensitivity/blindness goes, you all ever get your eyes checked, and have the dilation drops put in there? Yes, they give you sunglasses (sometimes.) All they really do is cut the 'everything is agony and tears from the hateful sky-fire' to 'I can kind of see and everything sort of sucks.'

My point is, no, I don't think anything from the "Of course we can't list all the items you can buy" section of the book is going to do much against a racial weakness.


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Why not? Light Sensitivity is defined in its mechanical effects. Why exactly would an item that specifically deals with those mechanical effects, not help with said weakness? Is there something special about the "low light level" produced by a pair of sun glasses that somehow drow eyes "magically" respond to it differently than any other low light level?


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Honestly, reverse flashlights would be entertaining.

"Most light-dwellers have armor that has a built-in flashlight that increases the light level by one step in a 15' cone, but, my drow friends, I have a DIMDARK(tm) on my armor, which REDUCES the light level by one step in a 15' cone. Only 250 credits and an armor slot! Buy one today in all fine Apostae botiques!"


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I am all for 80s cyberpunk drow with their shades and leather.


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Metaphysician wrote:
Why not? Light Sensitivity is defined in its mechanical effects. Why exactly would an item that specifically deals with those mechanical effects, not help with said weakness? Is there something special about the "low light level" produced by a pair of sun glasses that somehow drow eyes "magically" respond to it differently than any other low light level?

I think you're coming at this from different angles.

Your argument goes: "Light Blindness" is like human light sensitivity, which can be countered by sunglasses. Sunglasses exist, are effective and cheap to make in our world, so they should exist and be cheap to make in Starfinder.

His argument goes: Drow have Light Blindness as a racial trait, the race is balanced around having that drawback. If I introduce a 5 credit item that's not in the game that negates that drawback, it's not a real drawback - all drow will buy sunglasses and forget about the penalty. If that drawback disappears, the race is imbalanced. I don't want the race to be imbalanced, so I don't want to introduce the glasses.

Think of it like this: Humans have a (hidden) racial drawback in that they are unable to see in the dark. Nightvision goggles exist in real life, and allow humans to see very well in the dark. Should I allow a 5 credit item that gives a human darkvision 60'? No, because similar items already exist (Infrared Sensors armor upgrade/Darkvision Capacitors implant), take up armor/augment slots and are priced at 200 and 1750 credits, respectively.

I'd probably use the Darkvision options as an analogue for Light Blindness and design low-level armor upgrades and augment options to counter it. They shouldn't be too hard to get, but they shouldn't be free either. I wouldn't be surprised if there was an item like this in the upcoming Armory book.


Ok, the question alone is some sort of strange.
Of course they exist, why shouldn't they? Only because it's not written in the CRB? guys, really…

The better question would be "Did they help against Light Blindness" and this is more a question of game balance vs. realism (especially since we don't know how "Light Blindness" really works.

I would allow players to counter it with equipment, but not with a cheap 5c sunglass.
I would simply say that normal sunglass don't work, because they don't filter the light correctly. You have to have special crafted sunglassed which are a little bit expensive (~ 500 - 1000 c).

Btw: anyone saw Riddick... just mentioned it because "Light Blindness" and sunglass.


Exactly what Kudaku said. A 5 credit item should really be strictly for role playing, or at best a quality of life item with a minor gameplay impact.

Otherwise you open the door to all kinds of things. Under the 'everything not in the book that could exist' aegis, it wouldn't be hard or expensive to mock up mustard gas with common household cleaning and chemical agents. I don't want anyone at my table to have jugs of cloudkill for pocket change.


I find it really hard to believe that the designers, when porting Drow from Pathfinder to Starfinder, didn't think of cheap sunglasses and redesigned the race with them in mind.


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Except that, in this game, it appears that vision options like darkvision and low-light vision are essentially 'free' in the balance calculation for whether a not a race is balanced. You can see it in the monster creation rules, explicitly spelled out, and it seems to also be the case when you reverse engineer the race points of the various extant races. Take away the Drow's Light Blindness penalty and they're still essentially a glomming of Androids and Lashuntas and sit pretty on par balance wise with either race.

Lacking protection against bright light also makes the game internally inconsistent.

It is a fact that no human would be capable of even glancing at the sun without protection in vacuum in orbit around Absalom Station (much less the Burning Archipelago) without damaging their eyes and possibly going completely blind. The environmental protections on any space suit or suit of armor would *have* to include either the technological or magical equivalent of a welder's mask to prevent this (or there are a LOT of blind people walking around in the setting).

In my mind, the 5cr "sunglasses" a drow would need would be more like welders goggles than human sunglasses, but frankly, that seems about on point credit wise for what those would cost. I might increase it to 10 or 20 credits (to match the cost of a tool kit or environmental clothing, some of which would likely include welder's goggles), but any higher than that seems unrealistic.

Even with balance issues, if they existed, it's not like someone couldn't sunder them or steal them from you, so it'd still be a problem for the character. We're talking level one items.

Now, if armory gives me a different answer, I'm perfectly willing to shove my simulationist heart down a notch and take that answer as gospel. Until then, though, I don't see environmental protection or a cheap item as not at least alleviating the effect.


To put it differently, we have the light level system. It stretches credibility for no good reason that a cheap pair of sunglasses can reduce Bright Light to Normal Light, but can't reduce Normal Light to Dim Light. . . given that is exactly what sunglasses do.

Game balance wise, it means it is easy and cheap for someone to deal with Light Blindness. This only matters if you assume Light Blindness is meant to be a serious hindrance. . . and ignore that "ability to see well is dependent on a worn item" is itself a significant hindrance. Better hope those glasses don't get broken. . . or that you don't find yourself in Bright Light, and your glasses are only good for one level of reduction.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Metaphysician wrote:

To put it differently, we have the light level system. It stretches credibility for no good reason that a cheap pair of sunglasses can reduce Bright Light to Normal Light, but can't reduce Normal Light to Dim Light. . . given that is exactly what sunglasses do.

Game balance wise, it means it is easy and cheap for someone to deal with Light Blindness. This only matters if you assume Light Blindness is meant to be a serious hindrance. . . and ignore that "ability to see well is dependent on a worn item" is itself a significant hindrance. Better hope those glasses don't get broken. . . or that you don't find yourself in Bright Light, and your glasses are only good for one level of reduction.

Light Blindness only applies to Bright Light so I don't see your point about going from normal light to dim light.

I guess if I have a Robot NPC in my game i can just have him wear some Class 1 rubber gloves and boots and he should be completely be able to ignore his weakness


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5 credits is nothing to sneeze at - you can get a 1 bed suite for a whole night, or 5 days in a sleep pod! You can travel 500 miles in a grav-train for that cost; or buy 5 bulks of grain; 5 weeks worth of field rations; a backpack + tent; professional or formal clothing; a starstone compass with change to spare!

A 5 credits pair of sunglasses is actually hella expensive.


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Playing a drow in the Dead Suns AP I was allowed to purchase sunglass for 5 credits to solve this problem. When compared to the other races, both core and Alien Archive, it seemed to be an unnecessary hindrance. My GM even gave me the option of not paying for them, but I didn't feel right about that.

And perhaps some of you would like to purchase some quality spaceship weapons at competitive prices?


Pantshandshake wrote:


As far as light sensitivity/blindness goes, you all ever get your eyes checked, and have the dilation drops put in there?

I have. Fortunately that happened during a rainstorm. I thought it was cool, naturally.

Anyhow, sunglasses? Don't you know that pure gold is used by astronaut helmets? Would that not count for sunglasses?


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pithica42 wrote:
Except that, in this game, it appears that vision options like darkvision and low-light vision are essentially 'free' in the balance calculation for whether a not a race is balanced. You can see it in the monster creation rules, explicitly spelled out, and it seems to also be the case when you reverse engineer the race points of the various extant races. Take away the Drow's Light Blindness penalty and they're still essentially a glomming of Androids and Lashuntas and sit pretty on par balance wise with either race.

I think trying to extrapolate race balance from the monster creation rules is a dead end, PC races and monsters have vastly different checks and counters.

pithica42 wrote:
I don't see environmental protection or a cheap item as not at least alleviating the effect.

Oh, I'm not suggesting such an item shouldn't exist period. I think it makes perfect sense for drow to develop technology that allows them to (more or less) comfortably exist in other races natural habitat. My concern is simply that if such an item exists and has zero downsides, why would you ever see a drow not wearing it? Why would drow thrive underground and shun existence on the surface? Drow's aversion to bright light is one of the most defining traits of the race, I'd be careful to include a trivially cheap item that lets them as a race completely ignore that problem.

pithica42 wrote:
In my mind, the 5cr "sunglasses" a drow would need would be more like welders goggles than human sunglasses, but frankly, that seems about on point credit wise for what those would cost. I might increase it to 10 or 20 credits (to match the cost of a tool kit or environmental clothing, some of which would likely include welder's goggles), but any higher than that seems unrealistic.

If a player came to me asking for some kind of anti-blindness device, I'd happily agree that such an item should exist. However I think spending 1-5 credits to completely ignore a racial drawback is a bit too strong, and I'm not in love with the idea that every drow in Starfinder is going to be walking around sporting sunglasses Matrix-style. so I'd instead come up with a few different items.

Item 1 is the cheapo 1 credit option that most common drow laborers unfortunate enough to have to work in direct sunlight would use. My first thought is that wearing these should be the equivalent to wearing a gas mask in our world - you use it when you have to and you're happy you have one on hand when you need it, but you feel sweaty and uncomfortable while wearing it and it's a relief when you can take the damn thing off. Your example of welder's goggles fits well here, let's call them Darkshade Glasses. Darkshade Glasses are cheap, counter the drawbacks of Light Sensitivity, but need a minor drawback so that all drow don't permanently wear them. A -1 penalty to perception checks while wearing them due to the dimming effect seems like a decent compromise. The naturally keen-sensed drow would likely come to resent wearing goggles that leaves their keen eyesight blurred, and wearing such glasses would be a sure sign that you belonged in the lower classes.

Item 2 is the compromise option. We'll call it the Darkshade Visor. Darkshade Visor is a level 1 armor upgrade that costs 100 credits. Advanced technology lets the visor continually adjust the lighting level to a comfortable level for drow retina, as a result it lets you ignore the penalties of Light Sensitivity and has no drawback other than taking up an upgrade slot and the slight cost. This should be cheap enough that it's a viable purchase for a level 1 drow that starts a campaign where he'll be spending a decent amount of time in bright light, but expensive enough that most common drow wouldn't want to spring for it.

Item 3 is the Deluxe option. We'll call it the Darkshade Implants. The Darkshade Implant is a level 3 eye-slot biotech augment that costs 1250 credits. By attaching a translucent microfilm that automatically focuses and disperses the light as needed, it fully negates the penalties of Light Sensitivity and grants a +2 circumstance bonus against visual-based blinding effects such as flash grenades. Unlike other augments, the Darkshade Implants can be combined with other augments that occupy the eye slot.

So if you're a level 1 drow commoner, you use the darkshade glasses (and probably resent it).

If you're a low level drow PC or a reasonably affluent drow NPC you'd use the Darkshade Visor. I'd imagine these would be standard issue for drow infantry, much the same way modern armies issue nightvision goggles.

If you're a mid-level drow PC or a drow infiltrator/agent/executive etc you could consider springing for the augments.

How does that sound to you?


I wasn't trying to extrapolate Race Balance from the NPC creation rules. I was making 3 semi-related points. 1. That NPC creation rules consider vision options (like Darkvision) free. 2. That PC race creation rules seem to do the same based on reverse engineering the race points. 3. If you take away light blindness, entirely (just remove it) and compare the Drow to Android and Lashunta, it's essentially just a mix of the two (and not an overpowered one at that).

I'm also not overly concerned with cultural implications of a cheap item existing. Cultures change more slowly than technology, and are usually only adopted by the young. With Drow living such long lives, it'd be completely internally consistent for very few to 'want' to use some tool (unless they had to). This is especially true considering the rest of their cultures foibles.

All that being said, I'm fine with your suggestions for items.


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Culture clash! A human dons sunglasses because it makes him look cool but is threatened by his Drow ally for offering a pair as it implies he's a lower class pleb.


V-Mod Goggles existed in the Pathfinder Technology Guide. Their Brown level was entirely for alleviating light blindness.

From a tech development standpoint, I don't see much reason this would be lost. You could even pull the stats directly. Converting cost from gold to credits it would only be about 100 cred, and most of that would be they have a battery. But yeah, they were literally just sunglasses, even looked like them.


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Having darkened lenses in front of your eyes is different than having eyes that are actually tolerant to ambient light levels (high or low). I would suggest that while a pair of generic sunglasses should be able to prevent the detrimental effects of light-blindness, they should also reduce the max level of darkvision.

Both light blindness and darkvision are "free" items as far as game balance is concerned, but simply allowing a mitigation of a racial drawback without penalty still seems inappropriate. It's like saying.. you know.. my android decided not to pass his soul on for 100 years and all that experience has let him understand people better so that -2 sense motives check doesn't apply.....

So, I think if this ever comes up in my game, I'll rule that, A) yes, you can get sunglasses to mitigate the effects of light blindness, but B) because you are artificially reducing light that reaches your eyes by blocking it, rather than the ambient light actually being reduced to a comfortable level, then B) your Darkvision is reduced to 30' instead.

Clearly, character can remove the glasses when it's less bright to get full darkvision (if they remember to do so), but then someone turning on bright lights will nail them. Seems like an entirely fair tradeoff to me.


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Personally, im a fan of Kudaku's answer; that being said, The Armory has a Serum that negates light blindness for 1 hour, its a level 3 item that costs 200 credits, so that is the official answer.


Simple fix: Yes you can buy sunglasses, yes they mitigate light blindness. However you take -2 perception and darkvision doesn’t work. You can remove the glasses but it takes a full round for your eyes to readjust


How about this?

They can buy sunglasses and use them at no penalty. But as soon as they get decked by a dude, they break. Or when they get caught in a blast. Or if they are jarred and knocked down, they could fall off.

Do any of you wear glasses at all? You really gotta take care of them. Tons of stuff could break them if you aren't careful.


And then there's the fact that they can get dirty. Which I gotta say is a major pet peeve of mine. Perfect opportunity to add some penalties to ranged attacks and perception if they don't take a minute to clean them.


After seeing the incredibly low-tech solution the orcs of Eberron came up with (I'd give more detail but my books are in storage so I can't look it up), I've been constantly disappointed that no one else in the entire multiverse (except the Inuit, apparently) seems to have thought of it.


Vutava wrote:
After seeing the incredibly low-tech solution the orcs of Eberron came up with (I'd give more detail but my books are in storage so I can't look it up), I've been constantly disappointed that no one else in the entire multiverse (except the Inuit, apparently) seems to have thought of it.

I assume you are talking about a strip of leather with slits cut for the eyes. It is, indeed, incredibly low-tech. But sunglasses can also be a fashion statement. I can see someone using the low-tech method if nothing else is available, but it'd be easy to get sunglasses that just look and feel better.


I have a drow in the party. We solve this with the armor environmental protection. The armor would protect you from a sun so bright and hot that would burn your skin, make you permanently blind, and die of radiation, if you are a human. There is no reason it does not do it for a drow. And if it can do that, it's because it is polarized somehow

For those who aproach this from a balance pov, spending days of environmental protection is a drawback too, unlike 10 credits for sunglases.


BTW, it is hard to argue that drow don't use visors because cultural clash, when one of the pictures in alien archive depict them wearing one

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