We are starting the AP Reign of Winter in the near future. We have pretty much have the bases covered except a Fighter-type. I am ok with this, as I don’t play fighters too often so it would be a good change of pace.
But I’ve been pretty torn as I haven’t been able to decide what to play, where I then saw the Tower Shield Specialist archetype. In the past, I’ve never been a big fan of Tower shields just for how cumbersome they were, and I thought the ability to provide full cover was not worth the ACP, but I love the TSS. Definitely has a lot of tanking potential and I think it could be a lot of fun.
I’ve just barely started to put my character together, this is what I have so far:
Human
Str 18
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 10
Cha 8
Traits: Armor Expert & Indomnitable Faith (otherwise I have a 0 Will save)
Feats: 1st EWP: Bastard Sword, WF: Bastard Sword
2nd Power Attack
3rd Shield Focus
4th Weapon Specialization
5th Armor Focus: Full Plate
This is what I have so far, and is tentative and open to suggestions. Well, with maybe the exception of the EWP, unless someone else has another weapon suggestion, instead. But I really don’t want to go down the Shield Brace route.
I do like the tanking/high AC potential of the TSS, but what concerns me is the damage. I want the enemies to want to hit me, not ignore me.
What I’m really looking for is suggestions on making it a viable offensive character, as well. Not just a turtle.
Any help would be appreciated.
Phalanx Fighter with a Tower Shield and Nodachi may be worth looking at, as well. It's using Shield Brace, but without reach. Nodachi is better than a Bastard Sword, too. This is less turtle/tank, and is more dedicated to protecting your allies.
As for the Tower Shield Specialist... Use a whip, take Enforcer and follow the fear feat chain, spam Intimidation. Use spiked armor for adjacent enemies. Dirty Fighting, trip or disarm feats to add versatility.
I'm open to taking feats to protect my allies (in fact I think it would be fun), but I read over the Phalanx Soldier and not really what I am looking for. I actually do like defensive nature of the TSS, even maybe throwing in a feat (or feats) to help out party members, but need suggestions to make him more offensive.
And as for the whip going down the Enforcer/Intimidate route, again, not really what I am hoping for. Won't work too well, especially with my Cha, and like my stats where they mainly at.
I know he won't be an offensive powerhouse, but I would like to make my TSS something where he is doing his part in combat. Maybe what I am looking for is not viable, but that is why I brought it here, as there could be someone here who might see something I haven't yet, or aware of a feat chain I am not familiar with.
I do like the armor spikes and thinking about trying out the trip feats.
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Dirty Fighting is better than Combat Expertise for Improved/Greater Trip.
I would use the Estoc or Falcata instead of the Bastard Sword if I was going to spend the feat on EWP.
Possibly take the Military Tradition alternate racial feature for two exotic weapons, grab Falcata (or Estoc or Bastard Sword) and the Aklys, so you can throw the Aklys for Trip at range.
You can put one rank in Intimidate and take Martial Dominance at level 5, to use your BAB in place of ranks in Intimidation checks. The trait Bruising Intellect puts Intimidate on Intelligence instead of Charisma if you are interested. Intimidating Prowess adds your strength mod to Intimidation checks, as well.
Spiked Destroyer/Merciless Rush/Squash Flat might be worth looking at, too.
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I know he won't be an offensive powerhouse, but I would like to make my TSS something where he is doing his part in combat. Maybe what I am looking for is not viable, but that is why I brought it here, as there could be someone here who might see something I haven't yet, or aware of a feat chain I am not familiar with.Mobile Fortress
Mobile Stronghold
The loss of Weapon Training makes the TSS archetype lackluster. You can build a more efficient Tower Shield wielder with the base fighter and the Mobile Bulwark Style feats.
If you take the Mutation Warrior archetype, you can gain an extra arm at level 7. This would allow you to wield a two-handed weapon while carrying a Tower Shield at the same time. Then you could benefit from Total Cover as a move action/Immediate action while going for a Vital Strike build, buying proficiency with the Butchering Axe with a cracked Opalescent White Pyramid ioun stone for 1,500 gp.
Dirty Fighting is better than Combat Expertise for Improved/Greater Trip.
I would use the Estoc or Falcata instead of the Bastard Sword if I was going to spend the feat on EWP.
Possibly take the Military Tradition alternate racial feature for two exotic weapons, grab Falcata (or Estoc or Bastard Sword) and the Aklys, so you can throw the Aklys for Trip at range.
You can put one rank in Intimidate and take Martial Dominance at level 5, to use your BAB in place of ranks in Intimidation checks. The trait Bruising Intellect puts Intimidate on Intelligence instead of Charisma if you are interested. Intimidating Prowess adds your strength mod to Intimidation checks, as well.
Spiked Destroyer/Merciless Rush/Squash Flat might be worth looking at, too.
Oh, very nice in regards to Dirty Fighting. I was debating on going the trip route, but didn't have (or want to take) the prereqs, but Dirty Fighting takes care of that. I may just do it now.
I'm liking the Falcata. It of course doesn't have as high of average for damage as the Bastard Sword being a D8 compared to D10, but it has 19-20 crit range and I do plan to take Improved Crit later on. The Aklys is also intriguing. Throw and then engage.
I honestly don't see myself going down the Intimidate route, but it is good to see there are options for those who don't have good Charisma.
Same with Spiked Destroyer/Merciless Rush/Squash Flat. They are nice feats (Thibbledorf Pwent!), but I am not going to be playing an evil character.
I know he won't be an offensive powerhouse, but I would like to make my TSS something where he is doing his part in combat. Maybe what I am looking for is not viable, but that is why I brought it here, as there could be someone here who might see something I haven't yet, or aware of a feat chain I am not familiar with.Mobile Fortress
Mobile StrongholdThe loss of Weapon Training makes the TSS archetype lackluster. You can build a more efficient Tower Shield wielder with the base fighter and the Mobile Bulwark Style feats.
If you take the Mutation Warrior archetype, you can gain an extra arm at level 7. This would allow you to wield a two-handed weapon while carrying a Tower Shield at the same time. Then you could benefit from Total Cover as a move action/Immediate action while going for a Vital Strike build, buying proficiency with the Butchering Axe with a cracked Opalescent White Pyramid ioun stone for 1,500 gp.
Thank you for the suggestions, and I understand where you are coming from, but I want to stick with the TSS.
The Mobile feats are intriguing. It's a shame they double up on TSS as I would be interested in taking Mobile Fortress just for the fact I can give total cover to an adjacent ally, which is something the TSS cannot do. Is there another feat that will allow me to do so?
As for the mutation, that does sound like a good idea for another build, but not something I am picturing with this character.
But thank you.
Saving Shield at least let's you help an adjacent ally's AC a bit.
The Mobile feats are intriguing. It's a shame they double up on TSS as I would be interested in taking Mobile Fortress just for the fact I can give total cover to an adjacent ally, which is something the TSS cannot do. Is there another feat that will allow me to do so?
Shield Wall would allow you to do so. But it is a teamwork feat, and requires your allies to have it and be adjacent to you.
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The parts from the Mobile style feats that are redundant with the TSS archetype are the attack penalty negation, and the shield bonus to Touch AC.
By taking the first feat, you would gain:
Shield Bonus to CMD vs Overrun/Bull Rush.
Ability to gain Total Cover as a move action.
And the second feat:
Ability to grant allies Total Cover.
These two benefits are better than the whole TSS archetype alone. The TSS archetype does not downgrade the action required to gain Total Cover, which means that every time you use that ability you'll lose all your offensive potential for that turn. It is definitely worth it to take these two feats (3 with Shield Focus) if you're considering wielding a Tower Shield, TSS or not.
After doing a lot of mulling over my offense, I think I am actually going to try Shield Brace with the Nodachi. I know I said earlier it's not a route I want to try, but I feel it can give me that decent offense that I am looking for while still retaining the tank aspect of my character through TSS.
What I also like about the Nodachi is I don't have to burn a feat for it as it is not an Exotic weapon.
This is what I am looking at right now for feats, only have up to 12th level, although I believe the AP goes up to 17 or 18:
1st Weapon Focus: Nodachi, Power Attack, Shield Focus
2nd Shield Brace
3rd Mobile Bulwark Style
4th Weapon Specialization
5th Dirty Tricks
6th Improved Shield Focus
7th Improved Trip
8th Tower Shield Specialist
9th Greater Trip
10th Improved Critical
11th Mobile Fortress
12th Greater Weapon Specialization
One concern I have is with Shield Brace and my Nodachi. In how long it will take to make it viable to use my Nodachi with my Tower Shield.
The shield is an insane ACP -10. My GM said he will let me use the trait Armor Expert towards my shield instead (basically, Shield Expert). I will probably be able to pick up a Darkwood Tower Shield sometime 1st level and no later 2nd level, and that will knock 2 more off the ACP.
At 7th level I can lower the ACP once more with Improved Shield Focus, but it isn't until 8th level when I pick up the feat Tower Shield Specialist where using my Nodachi with my Tower Shield is really viable. As the feat allows me to use Armor Training for shields and knocks a total of 6 off (3 from the Tower Shield Specialist archetype and 3 more from the TSS feat). I will have my armor training, as well, but that should give a total of 10 ACP. However, it's not until 8th level.
Am I working all of this out correctly? Is there a way to make the Nodachi with the use of the Tower Shield viable at a lower level? -1 and maybe even -2 I can maybe deal with, but anything more really isn't viable in my book. Unfortunately a large chunk of the ACP drops when I take the TSS feat at level 8.
Also, what is your opinion on the trip feats? I put them in there to add some more variety to my character, besides just straight attacking with his weapon. Any other suggestions with those? And of course open to suggestions on the order of the feats, as well.
My advice. Use a heavy shield until you get the darkwood tower shield.
Take power attack at level 2. Shield brace at level one.
Other than that, looks pretty good.
My advice. Use a heavy shield until you get the darkwood tower shield.
Take power attack at level 2. Shield brace at level one.
Other than that, looks pretty good.
Yes, was definitely planning on getting a Darkwood Tower Shield early on. But the issue is the ACP is still going to be way too high to make any kind of realistic attack with my Nodachi. Even with the Darkwood TS, it will still be around -7.
Unless there is something I am missing here?
You aren't wrong.
The tower shield is tough to use. It just is, and there is no real way around it.
But that is the whole point of the tower shield... there's no real way around it. It is a mobile bunker, a defensive paragon.
You are going to lag behind offensively. Think of it as a 3/4 BAB class for offense.
That is why a heavy shield would be a good thing to have in reserve, and to use the first few levels.
Shield Focus and Shield Brace will work with the heavy shield, as well.
For this reason, I originally brought up the Phalanx Soldier because it doesn't care what type of shield you use. But it doesn't offer as good of bonuses specific to the tower shield, which is the focus of your character.
You aren't alone, either. Your team should be buffing the front line guys with heroism, and inspire courage, even aid another early on, prayer spells, stuff like that. So it's not the end of the world.
Yes, was definitely planning on getting a Darkwood Tower Shield early on. But the issue is the ACP is still going to be way too high to make any kind of realistic attack with my Nodachi. Even with the Darkwood TS, it will still be around -7.
Unless there is something I am missing here?
Darkwood lowers it by 2, not 3. It's considered MWK, but you don't add that to the ACP reduction provided by the special material. It's considered MWK so that you can make it into a magic item.
I'm quite certain that "Tower Shield Training (Ex)" lowers your Tower Shield ACP, so that's 3 ACP gone.
With the trait, we're sitting at 4 ACP at level three.
Armor training reduces that by 1 again at level seven, and Tower Shield Specialist negates the last 3 point at level eight.
But until level 7/8, you're gonna hurt from that -4 to attack.
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Maybe wait until lv 8 to use Shield Brace, and instead of a Nodachi use a reach weapon. Then add in Lunge and Combat Reflexes to fish for AoO's in 10-15 ft around you. I'd recommend a starting dexterity of 14 so that you'll get three AoO's.
Doesn't ACP only apply to attack rolls when not proficient with the shield?
No, it applies to a bunch of checks and things just to punish people for not being wizards, but it's disguised as a way to symbolize being encumbered by armor. And it applies whether or not you are proficient in the armor.
The non-proficiency penalty for using armor you are not proficient with IS, however, related directly to the armor check penalty of the armor you are using.
It’s not that I have any issues in the Tower Shield having the -10 ACP, I understand it’s hard to use. I just wish the feat/archetype ability to lower my ACP for my shield didn’t kick in at such a higher level.
Within the first 7 levels the best I can lose on my ACP for my shield is -4. It isn’t until 8th level, when I able to take Tower Shield Specialist (feat), where I can knock the rest of the ACP off.
I’ll probably just go with what you suggested, using a heavy shield for those first 7 levels with my Nodachi. Just hate going so long without getting into my main ‘form’ with my character. Would be nice if TSS (feat) was available if only a couple of levels earlier.
Thanks for your help.
Darkwood lowers it by 2, not 3. It's considered MWK, but you don't add that to the ACP reduction provided by the special material. It's considered MWK so that you can make it into a magic item.
I'm quite certain that "Tower Shield Training (Ex)" lowers your Tower Shield ACP, so that's 3 ACP gone.
With the trait, we're sitting at 4 ACP at level three.
Armor training reduces that by 1 again at level seven, and Tower Shield Specialist negates the last 3 point at level eight.
But until level 7/8, you're gonna hurt from that -4 to attack.
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Maybe wait until lv 8 to use Shield Brace, and instead of a Nodachi use a reach weapon. Then add in Lunge and Combat Reflexes to fish for AoO's in 10-15 ft around you. I'd recommend a starting dexterity of 14 so that you'll get three AoO's.
The other -1 comes from my Armor Expert trait. My GM is allowing me to use the trait to my shield instead of armor. So technically, it’s Shield Expert. So a total of -3.
Well, that’s the thing with “Tower Shield Training”, it doesn’t say anything about adding your shields to armor training. It just says that your armor training starts at -3 ACP and +2 Dex and continues to raise at -1 AC and +1 Dex as normal via armor training.
I agree with you, being a Tower Shield Specialist, Tower Shield Training should include your shield ACP as part of armor training. But the Tower Shield Specialist feat actually specifically says it does.
I’ve already debated on putting in Combat Reflexes, but I honestly forgot about it. And now I ran out of room. If I do put off the Shield Brace, I could Combat Reflexes where I had Shield Brace, but I don’t want to replace TSS (feat) with Shield Brace. I guess I could push back Greater Trip.
In particular, the shields ACP applies to attacks with the weapon using the shield brace feat with it.
In particular, the shields ACP applies to attacks with the weapon using the shield brace feat with it.
Yet another reason I said to go with Phalanx Soldier... its level 3 ability makes it you can use polearms as one handed weapons, so you don't need Shield Brace at all.
1. Power Attack
1B. Weapon Focus Nodachi
1H. Iron Will
2. Combat Reflexes
3. Shield Focus
4. Weapon Specialization
5. Mobile Bulwark
6. Mobile Fortress
7. Mobile Stronghold
8. Greater Weapon Focus Nodachi
9. Improved Iron Will
10. Whatever you want (Dirty Fighting)
11. Whatever you want (Improved Trip)
12. Greater Weapon Specialization Nodachi
13. Whatever you want (Greater Trip)
14. Improved Bull Rush
15. Spiked Destroyer
16. Greater Bull Rush
In particular, the shields ACP applies to attacks with the weapon using the shield brace feat with it.Yet another reason I said to go with Phalanx Soldier... its level 3 ability makes it you can use polearms as one handed weapons, so you don't need Shield Brace at all.
1. Power Attack
1B. Weapon Focus Nodachi
1H. Combat Reflexes
2. Iron Will
3. Shield Focus
4. Weapon Specialization
5. Mobile Bulwark
6. Mobile Fortress
7. Mobile Stronghold
8. Greater Weapon Focus Nodachi
9. Improved Iron Will
10. Whatever you want
11. Whatever you want
12. Greater Weapon Specialization Nodachi
One of the reasons I don’t want to do Phalanx Soldier is I want to finally play a Fighter who puts Armor Training to use. My prior Fighters I’ve always played archetypes that end up switching it out.
I like the basis of the TSS, and trying to make a character work where he can be both defensive (does really well) and still does relatively well offensively.
I’ll give Phalanx Soldier a try for a future Fighter.
I’ve already debated on putting in Combat Reflexes, but I honestly forgot about it. And now I ran out of room. If I do put off the Shield Brace, I could Combat Reflexes where I had Shield Brace, but I don’t want to replace TSS (feat) with Shield Brace. I guess I could push back Greater Trip.
Or Weapon Focus/Weapon Specialization. +2 Dmg will not help you trip, and is definitely not a priority.
I’ll probably just go with what you suggested, using a heavy shield for those first 7 levels with my Nodachi. Just hate going so long without getting into my main ‘form’ with my character. Would be nice if TSS (feat) was available if only a couple of levels earlier.
Well, if your main 'form' is to wield a Tower Shield, you should probably focus on that. Shield Brace is nice, but that's not what you wanted to build your character around, right?
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Edit:
Also, Improved Shield Focus isn't needed.
10 ACP base.
-2 from Darkwood
-7 from Tower Shield Specialist
(3 from the feat, 4 from armor training)
-1 from trait
So 0 ACP at lv 8. Don't waste a feat on Improved Shield Focus.
Mobile Stronghold:
Prerequisite(s): Str 17, Mobile Bulwark Style, Mobile Fortress, Shield Focus, Tower Shield Proficiency, base attack bonus +7.
Benefit(s): While using a tower shield, you do not suffer a penalty on attack rolls because of the shield’s encumbrance.
While using Mobile Bulwark Style, whenever you use a tower shield to gain total cover, you also gain partial cover (and grant partial cover to adjacent allies) against spells passing through the selected edge of your space. Also, while using this style, you can gain total cover against a single attack made against you as an immediate or swift action.
I will post this because it is online a level before Tower Shield Specialist, and it eliminates the penalty, not reduces it. You do not need fancy materials to reduce ACP, because there is no ACP to your attack. And all the other stuff it can do that TSS does not.
You can trade your trait for Snowstrider, which allows you to trip and bull rush 2 sizes larger than you.
Or Weapon Focus/Weapon Specialization. +2 Dmg will not help you trip, and is definitely not a priority.Well, if your main 'form' is to wield a Tower Shield, you should probably focus on that. Shield Brace is nice, but that's not what you wanted to build your character around, right?
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Edit:
Also, Improved Shield Focus isn't needed.
10 ACP base.
-2 from Darkwood
-7 from Tower Shield Specialist
(3 from the feat, 4 from armor training)-1 from trait
So 0 ACP at lv 8. Don't waste a feat on Improved Shield Focus.
The thing is I need some way to do decent damage in combat. Using a D10 Bastard sword, even with Power Attack, is not enough. I need for some way to keep the enemies attention on me.
The reason I switched to the Nodachi was it kept the same damage as the Bastard Sword (my original weapon for my build), but I didn’t need the additional feat, and had an additional number on my crit spread (18-20 instead of 19-20).
Also, as it’s a 2-handed weapon, it increases the damage when I use my Power Attack.
Where Shield Brace is not my main focus, it’s something I need to have my character help fulfill his offensive side. It’s just going to take me a little longer to get to my Tower Shield than I would have liked.
I actually saw that as well with the Improved Shield Focus, the additional -1 doesn’t serve anything for me once I pick up Tower Shield Specialist (feat) at 8th level. So I will drop that. Thanks for the heads up.
Mobile Stronghold:
Prerequisite(s): Str 17, Mobile Bulwark Style, Mobile Fortress, Shield Focus, Tower Shield Proficiency, base attack bonus +7.Benefit(s): While using a tower shield, you do not suffer a penalty on attack rolls because of the shield’s encumbrance.
While using Mobile Bulwark Style, whenever you use a tower shield to gain total cover, you also gain partial cover (and grant partial cover to adjacent allies) against spells passing through the selected edge of your space. Also, while using this style, you can gain total cover against a single attack made against you as an immediate or swift action.
I will just leave this here...
Yes, I saw that feat as well, and still debating on putting it in. Will be dropping Improved Shield Focus, but adding Combat Reflexes. However, maybe I can still work Stronghold in
And please continue to contribute if you have something to say, I really have appreciated your input. Both yours and Wonderstell’s. Was hoping to get more input from others, but I have appreciated both of yours a great deal, it has helped a lot, thank you. :)
Mobile Stronghold eliminating the penalty to attack, instead of just reducing it is huge. It means special materials are not required for the shield.
The fact that it's available a level earlier than TSS is really hard to argue with, as well.
Mobile Bulwark/Fortress/Stronghold pretty much make the Tower Shield Specialist archetype obsolete.
Thus the pressure towards Phalanx Soldier.
I apologize for beating a dead horse, but I honestly believe that the Phalanx Soldier gives you a better offensive tower shield character in every way.
And combined with Mobile Stronghold, a absolutely awesome party defense machine. The Phalanx Soldier gets bonuses to Brace, and the Nodachi has the brace feature, too.
You could trade your shield expert trait for Snowstrider to trip and bull rush two sizes larger than you.
@Hobbun
You might want to change from a Nodachi to the Fauchard when you can afford to buy the cracked Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun Stone for 1,500 gp.
The Fauchard has the same damage and crit as a Nodachi, but also possesses the Reach property.
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@VoodistMonk
Mobile Stronghold eliminating the penalty to attack, instead of just reducing it is huge. It means special materials are not required for the shield.
Ooooohh...
Now I see why you quoted it.
While you could argue that Mobile Stronghold negates the penalty to attack from Shield Brace, it's probably just referring to the -2 penalty mentioned in the Tower Shield's description.
/.../
When employing a tower shield in combat, you take a –2 penalty on attack rolls because of the shield’s encumbrance.
It's most definitely not RAI, but I'd ask my GM for a home game.
I just re-read Armor Check Penalties...
From what I can tell, the ACP applies to DEX/STR checks, not attacks... NOT ATTACKS.
Therefore, as far as offensive capabilities go, the only thing you have to eliminate is the -2 from being encumbered by the tower shield.
For all other DEX/STR checks, just drop the barn door before you try to climb or swim.
@VoodistMonk
I see what you are getting at, but I agree with Wonderstell that the penalty being negated is the -2 being caused by the Tower Shield, not the ACP due to Shield Brace. I can bring it up to my GM, but I see him laughing and saying "Uh, no."
As for Phalanx Soldier, again, the real issue with it is it gets rid of Armor Training. Which I said, is something I want to try this time with a Fighter. Where I haven't played a large amount of Fighters, the ones I have played all have had medium armors and those have mithral. I 'do not' like having my speed knocked down.
I've always wanted to play a tank (armored) type character, but still have normal speed and deftness in doing so. Armor Training, combined with TSS, allows me to do this.
Phalanx Soldier looks like fun, but not with this character. Thanks though.
@Wonderstell
That is certainly an interesting idea, I kind of like it. I just don't like with Reach that you can't attack close up. Sure, you can make the argument of "then, you never do". But I've played long enough where you will find situations often enough where you are forced to do so and I don't like not being able to attack with the Fauchard, then.
Yes, I can switch weapons, but then I will lose my WF (which will I will link to the Fauchard) as well as my Weapon Specialization feats. I can take them again for a second weapon, but I don't have the feat slots or can justify doing so.
I just re-read Armor Check Penalties...
From what I can tell, the ACP applies to DEX/STR checks, not attacks... NOT ATTACKS.
Therefore, as far as offensive capabilities go, the only thing you have to eliminate is the -2 from being encumbered by the tower shield.
For all other DEX/STR checks, just drop the barn door before you try to climb or swim.
That is normally the case, yes. But remember, the Tower Shield causes a -2 to attack rolls due to it's encumbrance. I believe that's what Mobile Stronghold is eliminating.
Prerequisites: Shield Focus; base attack bonus +3 or fighter level 1st; proficiency with light shields, heavy shields, or tower shields.
Benefit: You can use a two-handed weapon sized appropriately for you from the polearm or spears weapon group while also using a light, heavy, or tower shield with which you are proficient. The shield’s armor check penalty (if any) applies to attacks made with the weapon.
Armor Check Penalty: Any armor heavier than leather, as well as any shield, hurts a character's ability to use Dexterity- and Strength-based skills. An armor check penalty applies to all Dexterity- and Strength-based skill checks. A character's encumbrance may also incur an armor check penalty.
Shields: If a character is wearing armor and using a shield, both armor check penalties apply.
Nonproficient with Armor Worn: A character who wears armor and/or uses a shield with which he is not proficient takes the armor's (and/or shield's) armor check penalty on attack rolls as well as on all Dexterity- and Strength-based ability and skill checks. The penalty for nonproficiency with armor stacks with the penalty for shields.
Sleeping in Armor: A character who sleeps in medium or heavy armor is automatically fatigued the next day. He takes a –2 penalty on Strength and Dexterity and can't charge or run. Sleeping in light armor does not cause fatigue.
Tower Shield Training (Ex): At 3rd level, a tower shield specialist gains armor training as normal, but while he employs a tower shield, the armor penalty is reduced by 3 and the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor increases by 2. The benefit increases every four levels thereafter as per standard armor training; if the tower shield specialist is not employing a tower shield, the benefits to armor training revert to the normal bonuses.
Tower Shield Specialist (Ex): At 5th level, when a tower shield specialist employs a tower shield in combat, he does not take the –2 penalty on attack rolls because of the shield's encumbrance. This ability replaces weapon training 1
Prerequisites: Shield Focus, Tower Shield Proficiency, base attack bonus +11 or fighter level 8th.
Benefit: You reduce the armor check penalty for tower shields by 3, and if you have the armor training class feature, you modify the armor check penalty and maximum Dexterity bonus of tower shields as if they were armor.
Phalanx Fighting (Ex): At 3rd level, when a phalanx soldier wields a shield, he can use any polearm or spear of his size as a one-handed weapon. This ability replaces armor training 1.
...
Deft Shield (Ex): At 7th level, the armor check penalty from a shield and the attack roll penalty are reduced by –1 for a phalanx soldier using a tower shield. At 11th level, these penalties are reduced by –2. This ability replaces armor training 2 and 3.
** spoiler omitted **...
The ACP only applies to attack IF you are using Shield Brace.
Tower Shield Specialist (archetype) would require Shield Brace to use a polearm, and thus have to deal with the ACP to attack. And deal with the additional -2 due to being encumbered by the tower shield (until level 5 when it gets Tower Shield Training Ex.)
Whilst TSS (feat) does reduce the ACP, as will special materials, it is probably best to avoid Shield Brace with the TSS archetype, entirely. That way you don't have to apply the ACP to attack, and you can just use a bastard sword/estoc/falcata instead.
The TSS and Phalanx Soldier archetypes both provide ways to reduce/eliminate the -2 to attack from being encumbered by the tower shield. That is not the most important part of the Mobile Bulwark/Fortress/Stronghold feat chain. In fact, it is the least important part of that feat chain.
Long story short, I apologize for derailing your thread. Don't use Shield Brace. Go with your original plan, use a bastard sword or anything else that won't apply the ACP to attack.
The ACP only applies to attack IF you are using Shield Brace.
Tower Shield Specialist (archetype) would require Shield Brace to use a polearm, and thus have to deal with the ACP to attack. And deal with the additional -2 due to being encumbered by the tower shield (until level 5 when it gets Tower Shield Training Ex.)
Yep, we are on the same page.
Whilst TSS (feat) does reduce the ACP, as will special materials, it is probably best to avoid Shield Brace with the TSS archetype, entirely. That way you don't have to apply the ACP to attack, and you can just use a bastard sword/estoc/falcata instead.
The TSS and Phalanx Soldier archetypes both provide ways to reduce/eliminate the -2 to attack from being encumbered by the tower shield. That is not the most important part of the Mobile Bulwark/Fortress/Stronghold feat chain. In fact, it is the least important part of that feat chain.
Long story short, I apologize for derailing your thread. Don't use Shield Brace. Go with your original plan, use a bastard sword or anything else that won't apply the ACP to attack.
No worries, no need to be sorry. As I said, I've appreciated your input. But I've been debating on not going with Shield Brace for a bit now, just for the fact it takes so long to get my Tower Shield up and going.
Now I just have to decide between the Falcata and Estoc, hard to choose. Although leaning more towards the Estoc with the wider crit spread. Drawback is now I need to burn that Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat again.
The Mobile feat chain line is nice, and will certainly be taking them. At the very least the first two. (Bulwark and Fortress).
Will need to go over my feats again. Once I do, I will re-post them and would be interested in what everyone's thoughts are.
Thanks again.
Zwordsman, thanks for the great suggestions!
So what feats and items did you take to increase Aid Another? I know of some traits that boost it, but not feats or items.
Thanks for the suggestions and information. But I just don’t have the space for traits and feats to supplement the Bodyguard. I do agree, it’s a nice combination and can really be helpful!
This is the feats I’ve come with on my adjusted list. Still not 100% sure if I am going to go with the Estoc, but whichever weapon it will be, will be substituted for applicable feats.
1st EWP: Estoc, Combat Reflexes, WF: Estoc
2nd Power Attack
3rd Shield Focus
4th Mobile Bulwark Style
5th Weapon Specialization
6th Mobile Fortress
7th Lunge
8th Tower Shield Specialist
9th Mobile Stronghold
10 Improved Critical
11th Dirty Fighting
12th Greater Weapon Specialization
13th Improved Trip
14th Greater Trip
This all I have so far. The campaign goes up to 17-18, so not really sure what to throw in there later on.
If anyone has any recommendations or suggestions on better feat order, or even weapon, I am definitely open to it.
Combat Maneuvers are generally easier at early levels, and quickly fall off if you don't base your whole build around it.
At lv 13, when you get Improved Trip, the average cr 13 monster has 38 CMD (and +2 for every leg over two they have). And even if you can beat the CMD, trip won't do anything if they are capable of flight. As you get them so late in the game, you might want to consider not taking them at all.
Oh, and Shield Brace is still a great choice. I'd probably take it at lv 9, just after Tower Shield Specialist.
Ok, if I still wanted to have the option to use combat maneuvers (trip), where do you suggest I put them at earlier levels? And where it won’t drastically push back my other feats?
Also, on ‘basing your whole build’ around using combat maneuvers, are there other feats you recommend I should take besides Dirty Fighting, Improved Trip and Greater Trip? There are items I plan to purchase to help improve my CMB, as well.
I’m just looking for some variety for offense. Instead of just attacking with my weapon using Power Attack. I would like to use my combat maneuver feats earlier on, but I just have a lot of ‘earlier feats’ that I want/need to take for my build.
As for Shield Brace, I just felt I was waiting too long to get going with my main forcus of my Tower Shield. Even if I take it at 9th level, like you suggest, I don’t know if I really want to switch weapons so late in my character’s path. I will be taking feats that are focused for a specific weapon (Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Specialization, Improved Critical). That’s too many feats to take for a weapon I am abandoning, or too many to take again for a new weapon.
But you have a suggestion for a build for the feats per level on how to incorporate the combat maneuvers, I am definitely open to hearing them. Or at least to give some offensive variety to my character without using Trip. Thanks so much for your help so far.
Ok, if I still wanted to have the option to use combat maneuvers (trip), where do you suggest I put them at earlier levels? And where it won’t drastically push back my other feats?
Okay, so the only drawback of making combat maneuvers without the feats is that you provoke AoO's. If you, at level 4, use Mobile Bulwark Style to get Total Cover versus an enemy, you can make any kind of combat maneuver without risk since they can't attack you.
If an enemy provokes an AoO while you use the Lunge feat and they can't reach you when you attack them, you can trip/disarm/sunder them without risk.
So the trip maneuver feats aren't needed at lower levels if you play it smart, and since you haven't wasted feats on the maneuver you won't lose anything when it becomes worthless.
As for Shield Brace, I just felt I was waiting too long to get going with my main forcus of my Tower Shield. Even if I take it at 9th level, like you suggest, I don’t know if I really want to switch weapons so late in my character’s path. I will be taking feats that are focused for a specific weapon (Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Specialization, Improved Critical). That’s too many feats to take for a weapon I am abandoning, or too many to take again for a new weapon.
You can always retrain feats, but even then you don't need to abandon the weapon.
If I'm understanding the situation, you want a one-handed weapon with good crit range, that also is part of the polearm/spear weapon group?
Get a Scimitar.
"But wonderstell, that isn't part of the polearm or spear weapon groups!"
1. EWP: Versatile Design Scimitar, Combat Reflexes, Power Attack
2. WF: Versatile Design Scimitar
Wait until lv 2 when you can afford the Versatile Design Scimitar before getting weapon focus, as it won't give you any benefit before that.
Then, at level 4 you get a free retraining of a bonus combat feat, so you buy "EWP: Versatile Design Scimitar" for 1,500 gp and your feat progression will look like this.
1. EWP Mobile Fortress, Combat Reflexes, Power Attack,
2. WF
3. Shield Focus
4. Mobile Bulwark Style
5. Weapon Specialization
6. Lunge
7. Shield Brace
8. Tower Shield Specialist
Then two-hand your Scimitar and gain 1.5x Str, and +50% dmg from Power Attack, while benefiting from your Shield Brace feat.
Sorry for the late response, but just wanted to say thanks for all your suggestions and help.
Definitely will give your suggestions some thought. Honestly, didn’t really understand what you were doing with the feats and how the modified weapons worked at first, but I see it now.
I think I will probably do a different weapon instead of the Rapier, though. It doesn’t have to be an 18-20 crit spread. I’m debating on the Bastard Sword or the Falcata, but I do understand with that I do need the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat, as well. But once I get Shield Brace, I will just train out EWP.
Thanks again for your help.
Figure I'd throw in my build as a reference for you. This build started before some of the newer material came out so is not optimum, it is also a pfs character.
Phalanx Fighter 6 / Tortured Crusader 2
Trait 1: Defensive Strategist (+1 AC when aiding AC).
Trait 2: N/A
Fighter Feat 1: Combat Reflexes
Feat 1: Bodyguard.
Fighter Feat 2: In Harms Way
Feat 3: Mobile Bulwark.
Fighter Feat 4: Shield Focus.
Feat 5: Mobile Fortress.
Fighter Feat 6: Toughness.
Feat 7: Power Attack.
He is no barbarian or archer, but the power attack means he is doing a moderate about of damage. I've never had the chance to use the immediate action brace but the move action total cover has come into play often.
He uses a glaive-guisarme for reach and a dwarven boulder helmet for up close. He often used the helmet as a primary attack to make it harder for enemies to move away from him.