AoO, Combat Reflexes, Fortuitous, Offhand Opportunity questions...

Rules Questions

If you have Combat Reflexes, and the Weapon Trick feat for Offhand Opportunity, does the second AoO cost you an AoO granted by your dex bonus?

Say you have a dex bonus of +2, giving you 3 total AoO available.

You carry out the two weapon trick Offhand Opportunity. Do you now have one or two AoO left?

Does the extra AoO provided by the Fortuitous weapon enchantment cost against your total number of available AoO?

I think it would be awesome to be able to use two Fortuitous weapons and hit someone 4 times on every AoO, but I need to know if I need 4 AoO available each time to do so.

I think no. I think the trick gives you an additional AOO per round, but not on the same triggering attack. There is nothing that would grant you more than the one extra per round. It would however oincrease your AOO to 2 total, so in theory (without Combat reflexes) that combinations would let you get two AOO against one action, one time a round, and then you'd be out.

Off-Hand Opportunity
Additional Prerequisite(s): Combat Reflexes

You can make one additional attack of opportunity each round with your off-hand weapon.

Clearly states extra attack PER ROUND.

But it has Combat Reflexes as a prerequisite, so it seems really redundant to just give you an additional AoO available for your overall number.

As it stands normally, if you are TWF and something enters the area you threaten, you can hit them one time, so it doesn't matter what hand you use, ever.

The trick says you get an additional AoO with your offhand, so if it's not activated on the same trigger, it's completely pointless.

Offhand adds +1 to your total AoO's a round, but it can be done only with your offhand weapon (and all of the drawbacks that incur). So in your scenario you have 2 left. Offhand is a very build-specific feat for going all-out on causing enemys to threaten as many AoO's as possible (since you only get one AoO per action causing it)

As for fortuitous, as written I think it only gives you one AoO double-tap a round regardless of how many fortuitous weapons you have (I could be wrong) but it is also an additive effect. So with the same stats above if an enemy provoked 4 AoO's (via different actions/effects) you could tap him 5 times total (3 base + 1 at -5 + 1 that MUST be yer offhand weapon)

D@mn, how lame.

I thought Offhand Opportunity allowed you to swing strong hand and offhand as your AoO off the same trigger. That is what would be advantageous about it, rather than it being completely useless.

Because then, with two Fortuitous weapons, someone stepping up to you would get strong hand AoO + strong hand Fortuitous AoO + offhand AoO + offhand Fortuitous AoO.

Come at me, bro!

But of course, that would be way too powerful to ever give a martial character spending feats to gain abilities.

I believe fortuitous uses up AoOs from combat reflexes.

Chess Pwn wrote:
I believe fortuitous uses up AoOs from combat reflexes.

That's what I figured. I thought that both Offhand Opportunity and Fortuitous gave you access to additional AoO off the same trigger, so long as you had the corresponding number of AoO available via Combat Reflexes and your Dex modifier.

But of course, a martial character already taking the feats required to use two weapons can't be allowed to squeeze in two more feats to allow him to use both his weapons during the same AoO trigger. Why would you ever let a two weapon fighter attack with both his weapons when someone steps up to him? Stupid martial character, should have been a wizard, duh.

Chess is right, I missread that bit of Fortuitous. So 4 AoO's not 5.

Is there anything written in stone, though?

Like explicitly denying someone with a +4 (18) Dex mod from using Combat Reflexes, Weapon Trick: Offhand Opportunity, and two Fortuitous weapons from doing stronghand AoO + stronghand Fortuitous AoO + offhand AoO + offhand Fortuitous AoO?

I find nothing in the definition of any of the above concretely saying otherwise. It doesn't say you get additional attacks of opportunity for separate triggers, or that you can't use your additional AoO against the same target. In the case of Offhand Opportunity, I absolutely read it as one trigger both hands.

Doesn't having an enemy invade your threatened area happen in the same round? So having additional attacks of opportunity per round implies that you are capable of making additional attacks of opportunity that same round? Per round. Round one, normally one AoO... additional AoO per round... Now you have more?

It is in the combat section, not the feats themselves.

If you have the Combat Reflexes feat, you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity).

Well if you have limited AOO while two weapon fighting from perhaps say, ranger class, so your dex isn't terribly high, adding in one more AOO is still useful. Furthermore, if you are doing things with reach, more aoo= more power.Unles your gm is metagaming, enemies should be surprised by the number of attacks you have if they provoke alot. Many of my CR builds rarely even get more than one attack in a round, so i dont usually go too crazy unless i can do other things with them, like bodyguard. Honeslty making more than 2 attacks on a single provoke is already pretty rough. Step up on the archer who stepped back, and wreck him before he knows what happened is pretty brutal.

I've read the Combat Reflexes and combat sections on it. Sure. Combat Reflexes says it doesn't allow it. Offhand Opportunity has no such verbage. But I guess it's just generally accepted one trigger, one AoO. Bummer. I was pretty excited about this, but of course it doesn't work like I want it to.

What is the purpose of the weapon trick Offhand Opportunity then? When would it EVER come into play or be useful?

VoodistMonk wrote:
What is the purpose of the weapon trick Offhand Opportunity then? When would it EVER come into play or be useful?

Each individual trick is not meant to be equivalent in power to a feat.

The thing about any of the 'trick' feats, is that you can get several of the abilities in each category with just the Weapon Trick (Two-Weapon) feat. That's why they provide minor benefits, since you could theoretically get them all.

Like, I had a disarm build that needed Arm Bind. Since I also had Combat Reflexes I got Off-Hand Opportunity as a bonus, and decided to place ranks in Climb to get Piercing Climb. And in late-game I have the option to spend feats to unlock the ability to make two attacks as a Standard action.

The Concordance

Also, fortuitous can only be taken advantage of once per round, regardless of how many fortuitous weapons you wield.

fortuitous wrote:
This special ability can be placed only on melee weapons. A fortuitous weapon grants the wielder more attacks of opportunity. Once per round, when the wielder of a fortuitous weapon hits with an attack of opportunity, he can make a second attack of opportunity with this weapon against that foe at a –5 penalty.

Regardless of having two fortuitous daggers or four fortuitous claw attacks (thanks AoMF), the “wielder of a fortuitous weapon” can only do this “once per round.” Having more than one fortuitous weapon does not make you a super wielder or ultra wielder who can do this more than once per round. It still limits a wielder to once per round.

Liberty's Edge

What about a reach weapon user with the Fortuitous reach weapon? If you have a reach total of 25' and win init, can you ready the action "strike if a foe comes within 15'". Your villain charges. I THINK this should work when villain moves from 25' to 20', you get two attacks of opportunity (assuming the first one hits) at full and -5. When villain moves to 15', you take your third attack of the round (readied action). I'm guessing that's all you get...however, if your round is now over, can the action of villain moving from 10' to 5' provoke another AoO (he asked, wishfully). If so, then since you are now in the next round for all intents and purposes, you could strike twice.

Yeah, I know - be happy with hitting the villain 3 times before he can swing his axe at your head. It doesn't matter much because I'm going to full withdraw on my turn and get another two for one when he comes at me again...

Movement only provokes once. You'd get your readied and the 2 AoO but no further.

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