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Fits those kinds of stories best, too. Say the Monk is facing an enemy of a type that has recently been a lot of trouble, but she leveled up and learned a new, relevant aura.
Monster: "Fists break upon my hide as easily as swords, foolish girl!"
Monk: (assumes a new stance) "Last time was different. I've been practicing a new technique especially for this. Now is as good a time as any to use ... the Silver Crescent Style!"
Monster: (exaggerated shock)
That was so perfect that when I saw it in my mind, the voice and the mouth movements didn't match.
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Sounds like we are on the same page! One of the biggest problems with Monks was how their unarmed strikes got outclassed by magic weapons so hardcore in the mid to late game, so some kind of modal auras that allow them to shift the properties of their strikes would go a long way towards making them viable in different situations.I personally think the base monk should be built with the Qingongg archetype as the guideline. Unarmed, unarmored warrior with spell like abilities that allow them to overcome obstacles that are not solved by punching. Flight, ranged unarmed strike damage, changing their unarmed strike damage to different elements, going incorporeal, having an aura that enhances themselves, debuffing enemies, teleportation, all sorts of cool stuff to choose from. Maybe have tech trees that the abilities follow, some sorts of paths to enlightenment. A spiritual warrior with magic-like mystical abilities.I would really like this. That sort of mystical, transcendent character is exactly why I play Monks and why they're my favorite class, anyway. Give us options to enhance our unarmed strikes with various properties (perhaps part of the auras you mention, which I would love) and I would be a very happy camper.Fits those kinds of stories best, too. Say the Monk is facing an enemy of a type that has recently been a lot of trouble, but she leveled up and learned a new, relevant aura.
Monster: "Fists break upon my hide as easily as swords, foolish girl!"
Monk: (assumes a new stance) "Last time was different. I've been practicing a new technique especially for this. Now is as good a time as any to use ... the Silver Crescent Style!"
Monster: (exaggerated shock)
You mean.... "NANI!?!?"
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You mean.... "NANI!?!?"
Fits those kinds of stories best, too. Say the Monk is facing an enemy of a type that has recently been a lot of trouble, but she leveled up and learned a new, relevant aura.Monster: "Fists break upon my hide as easily as swords, foolish girl!"
Monk: (assumes a new stance) "Last time was different. I've been practicing a new technique especially for this. Now is as good a time as any to use ... the Silver Crescent Style!"
Monster: (exaggerated shock)
おまえはもうしんでいる
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I wanna play a lawful goblin monk specifically.
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I wanna play a lawful goblin monk specifically.
Read my mind! I'm thinking goblin orphan raised at Windsong Abbey by monks of Irori. You know she's trying to reign in some sort of urge when she suddenly starts chanting her mantra.
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Inspiration for the 'monk' here from the Pathfinder Beta test in 2008.
The breadth and variety of abilities demonstrated by historical and legendary martial arts masters of little ol' Earth are significant and substantial.
Maybe combine Kineticist and monk basically. Elemental monk maybe an archetype:
So like a wind monk can shoot out a ki blast (air blast).
To me ch'i seems it should be more accurately applied to its abilities and usage in game terms because of ki/qi's meaning "breath" or "air". :)
Entire archetypes, schools/styles and prestige classes can (and have been if the 3rd party materials are any indication) easily be spun off in significant quantity using 'real world' materials alone.
Maybe combine Kineticist and monk basically. Elemental monk maybe an archetype:
So like a wind monk can shoot out a ki blast (air blast).
I actually have something similar like this in my home games: Monks mystically train to overcome the physical limitations of their bodies, while Kineticists are able to act as a physical outlet for mystical powers - they're essentially opposite sides of the same coin.
I would prefer to keep Kineticists as their own thing, but developing connections between Kineticists and Monks (and maybe giving Monks a ki blast) would be right by me
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Play an old eccentric goblin psychic monk, I must.
Although 'old' for a goblin is relative.
"When 35 years old you reach, look as good you will not.""I'm 37."
"Harumph!"
And now we cycle back to χ.To me ch'i seems it should be more accurately applied to its abilities and usage in game terms because of ki/qi's meaning "breath" or "air". :)
Entire archetypes, schools/styles and prestige classes can (and have been if the 3rd party materials are any indication) easily be spun off in significant quantity using 'real world' materials alone.
;)
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Martials should be able to do all kinds of stuff that looks impossible. Crazy jumps, lightning-speed movement, punches that send enemies flying through the air.But yes, Monks should be able to pull all this stuff off at lower levels than others.
Thinking on this what if monks get a faster progression in acrobatics and athletics similar to how the fighter gets a faster weapon proficiency progression.
Since everything scales at the same level they could maybe use athletics for unarmed strikes and acrobatics for defense (though since we don't really know how AC works with proficiency that might be nonsense)
I like the idea that monks, who tend to be the MADist of classes, get more stat boosts than other classes through the new stat boosting system. It gives them the feel of perfecting their body and mind rather than being reliant on gear.
There are a lots of Monks orders in Golarion, and since D&D2 they became a part of the mythology of the game. The Sisters of Asmodeus, the Vudrani, the exiled Tian who live in Avistan, the followers of Irori...
And mechanically speaking it fills the sport of mystical assassin and/or hand to hand expert. So I think it is good to keep them around.
Why is 氣 spelled ki in pathfinder? I always read it as kai when I think it's supposed to be qi like the chee in cheese.
Japanese influence. Ki is the Japanese pronunciation and considering many of us grew up on dragonball... Ki is a familiar term whilst Qi often requires explanation.
Thanks, so ki is supposed to sound like key
Japanese influence. Ki is the Japanese pronunciation and considering many of us grew up on dragonball... Ki is a familiar term whilst Qi often requires explanation.Thanks, so ki is supposed to sound like key
That’s why I prefer “chi”, since it doesn’t sound like what you put in a door to make it open, nor does it sound like anything else English.
Ch'i is also pronounced in English as "She" or "Shy" in some circles. It is always fascinating to see how many different meanings/definitions and enunciations there are. ;)
That’s why I prefer “chi”, since it doesn’t sound like what you put in a door to make it open, nor does it sound like anything else English.Japanese influence. Ki is the Japanese pronunciation and considering many of us grew up on dragonball... Ki is a familiar term whilst Qi often requires explanation.Thanks, so ki is supposed to sound like key
Qi is also a correct way to spell it and the way I like it.
The nice thing about spelling it as Qi is that the English language can pronounce it either way. Q is a very flexible consonant.
Good ideas get thoroughly yoinked.
The nice thing about spelling it as Qi is that the English language can pronounce it either way. Q is a very flexible consonant.Good ideas get thoroughly yoinked.
Excellent! My plan worked perfectly! ;)
Seriously though, they need to adopt it for pathfinder. Q needs some love too.
Q needs some love too.We're in the Monk thread.
Q would be an artificer [working with one hell of a Rogue]
Wait wouldn't Q be like a lvl 40 Gestalt Wizard/Cleric with 20 mythic tiers? Or I guess just someone who can cast wish at will?
Q needs some love too.We're in the Monk thread.
Q would be an artificer [working with one hell of a Rogue]
I'm sure Q Branch has a Q-device that can detect Qi...
I'm sure Q Branch has a Q-device that can detect Qi...Q needs some love too.We're in the Monk thread.
Q would be an artificer [working with one hell of a Rogue]
Some sort of way of scouting out your opponents power. we could call it a scouter. Have it take up an eye slot... Needs some downside maybe if it detects someone with to much qi power it explodes.
And of course all Qi cultivators above a fairly low level can dampen their Qi output, masking it from scouters and the sense of other cultivators until the time they have to bring out a higher level of power than they are revealing.Some sort of way of scouting out your opponents power. we could call it a scouter. Have it take up an eye slot... Needs some downside maybe if it detects someone with to much qi power it explodes.I'm sure Q Branch has a Q-device that can detect Qi...Q needs some love too.We're in the Monk thread.
Q would be an artificer [working with one hell of a Rogue]
Lets just hope the Qi scale never goes over 9000!
*appears as everything power reading wise explodes*
Sorry I just was looking for a snack.
What, if instead of calling the Monk a Monk...they call it a Brawler instead?
Still has the background of the Monk class as it's heritage, but fashioned more after the Unchained Monk and the ACG Brawler.
There is a LOT of discussion about Paladins, Alignment and how the two should be handled in PF2. I'd like to throw out a wish list item of my own that may be polarising.
No Monks in the Core Rule Book.
My rational is this, the class is heavily reliant on the ki resource, steeped in Asian mythology and kung-fu movies. Barring Monks, the core material is euro-centrist (I'm including the middle east in there, because Crusades).
Rather than release it in the core books, hold off and release it in a Tian Xia supplement that includes the Ninja, Samurai, a martial arts subsystem and ki power-source that feels unique.
If the monk is to be included from the start, make it a generic Pugilist class with eastern variants as archetypes with feat trees for variety and flavour.
Pathfinder monks are more from vudra and jalmaray than tian xia IIRC
I think the brawler should still end up being its own class for people that don't want a spiritual style unarmed combatant. I like the brawler a lot for what it was.
Eh I think the PF1 one was different enough to deserve its own class. the hybrid classes were some of my favorites. I think yeah totally you can do a fighter with unarmed strike for sure. I think the pf1 brawler brought some new stuff to the table that made them fun by their own rights however.
Also cavalier has been in the game since AD&D 1st.
I agree with pretty much all of what is said about the identity of the monk and it's leaning towards the supernatural abilities.
The reason I started this thread was the concern that by forcing it into core they will do so without the supporting framework that makes the makes the concept so great in pop culture. It's why it was a mess in D&D 3.X and PF1. While they may release that extra stuff in a future book, it never meshes right and feels like an afterthought.
As I stated in my initial post, I'd rather they release it as a complete package later than have it be a sliver of the system that is required. If it is to be included as a Core class, back it up with the appropriate subsystems, like martial arts, etc.