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My ambitions are limited. I want
1) To permanently and irrevocably (NO coming back later) destroy The Blakros Museum
2) To permanently and irrevocably (NO coming back later) kill Grandmaster TorchYou can even combine them into one scenario if you wish :-)
I completely oppose either of those things ever happening.
Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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Some of those suggestion puzzle me a bit, they sound like people expect PFS to end rather than transition.
I really like scenarios that show us another side of our faction leaders, but unless there is going to be a mass retirement, those can wait.
Some things I would like to see:
Zarta storyline continued
Torch fried
322 storyline continued
School of Spirits continuation
And most importantly of all... I would like to see Torch permanently removed...ideally by frying but I am not picky, and I would gladly pay for an atonement or retire any character to make it stick.
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As an aside: I have never, personally, understood the hatred that Torch seems to engender in some areas... but then again, back in the day, I had a couple of Shadow Lodge PCs.
Frankly, the one that I can't stand (from a hypocrisy perspective) is Maldris; I am looking forward to the upcoming 7-11 scenario, where I can (hopefully) arrange for him to be beheaded by a Final Blade...
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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While I mostly want a scenario that lays out Torch's plans, justifies them, and completely vindicates him from the things he's done.
You pretty much posted the same on page 1 already James, but even in the best case that would make the Mary Sue accusations even worse.
Even in his last potential appearance, he was better shielded than any NPC I have ever seen including runelords. Which shows to me that the Author expected the PCs to try to remove him.
I was already kinda unhappy that they decided to keep the evil lich, but willingly working with Torch really shows the character of that faction. While I am happy that it wasn't exactly killed of.. I am happy to see it leaving the spotlight.
He was instrumental in the attack on Absalom and his henchman almost stole the thing that was critical for our defense.
Frankly, this part really should be common knowledge for ALL Pathfinder Agents, since it was part of a speech given to the defenders and thus really something in the are of a DC 10 Knowlege check for them.
We have
reason to believe Grandmaster Torch was involved, at least
enough that his minions attempted to usurp Gulgamodh to turn
against Absalom.
So fine, Torch gets back to make a damn good explanation... but frankly that is the point where he will have to face justice if his reasoning are insufficient.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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As an aside: I have never, personally, understood the hatred that Torch seems to engender in some areas... but then again, back in the day, I had a couple of Shadow Lodge PCs.
Frankly, the one that I can't stand (from a hypocrisy perspective) is Maldris; I am looking forward to the upcoming 7-11 scenario, where I can (hopefully) arrange for him to be beheaded by a Final Blade...
I started with season 6, so I never saw him as a controversial feature, from running scenarios he always looked like he was using Society agents for his own gain... the real hate only started after he got "protected" from any consequences.
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Maldris...I didn't have many problems with him, even gave him a chance in 7-05, but the old faction missions really show a much darker man, someone entirely unfit to lead the faction.
But yeah, I am also looking forward to how this season will deal with his storyline.
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While I mostly want a scenario that lays out Torch's plans, justifies them, and completely vindicates him from the things he's done.
I am pretty certain that no such explanation could be given that would satisfy me. And that any attempts to do so would seriously cheese me off. Especially since I would presumably be told that I had no choice but to believe them.
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My Shadow Lodge PC is 13th Level now, but is angry at Torch for blowing his "goodie two shoes" cover in such a flagrant show of uncontrolled passion. Like, you could have framed [redacted] or killed [redacted] in any number of non-incriminating ways. Having Pathfinders present to witness it was just poor form, and ruined a perfectly good front.
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Frankly, the one that I can't stand (from a hypocrisy perspective) is Maldris; I am looking forward to the upcoming 7-11 scenario, where I can (hopefully) arrange for him to be beheaded by a Final Blade...
Not if our vigilantes get to him first (we've been talking about the exact same idea)... Race you! ;)
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Frankly, the one that I can't stand (from a hypocrisy perspective) is Maldris; I am looking forward to the upcoming 7-11 scenario, where I can (hopefully) arrange for him to be beheaded by a Final Blade...Not if our vigilantes get to him first (we've been talking about the exact same idea)... Race you! ;)
Unless I can return the blade to Her Infernal Magistrix personally, I will simply behead him on the spot and keep the body in a very safe place. There is no need for a second Galt on the map, even if we've been at war for many years. That is exactly what Maldris nearly did - plunged Andoran into further chaos.
Some day, Cheliax shall reclaim these rebellious colonies.
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
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While I mostly want a scenario that lays out Torch's plans, justifies them, and completely vindicates him from the things he's done.You pretty much posted the same on page 1 already James, but even in the best case that would make the Mary Sue accusations even worse.
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
So fine, Torch gets back to make a damn good explanation... but frankly that is the point where he will have to face justice if his reasoning are insufficient.
I know, but given how much people were harping on wanting to finish him off, I wanted to stress that there are dissenters to that.(Particularly Natalya, who's former shadow lodge). I'm certain we don't know the whole story for 9-00, and the methods of 4-23 are so out of character for him, that I still root for him.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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While I mostly want a scenario that lays out Torch's plans, justifies them, and completely vindicates him from the things he's done.
That would be
Anyway, any good writer should know that a character that the audience loves to hate so much, you do not kill off.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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While I mostly want a scenario that lays out Torch's plans, justifies them, and completely vindicates him from the things he's done.That would be ** spoiler omitted **
Anyway, any good writer should know that a character that the audience loves to hate so much, you do not kill off.
I think what people are saying is that "loves to hate" is souring into "despise how the writers always save their Mary Sue".
Starfinder Society Developer
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I think what people are saying is that "loves to hate" is souring into "despise how the writers always save their Mary Sue".
I would strongly argue against Torch being an "idealized and seemingly perfect" character. :)
On an unrelated note, it's quite amusing the sheer number of topics in this thread that have come up in internal discussions. It's refreshing to see that we're on the right track with a lot of things. Exactly what and how... well, you'll have to wait just a bit longer!
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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Anyway, any good writer should know that a character that the audience loves to hate so much, you do not kill off.... until the grand finale, which is fast approaching.
There is no "finale." Pathfinder Society 1.0 will end, maybe with a cool climax to commemorate, but don't expect to fundamentally change Pathfinder as we know it (unless of course it's planned by developers). As far as I understand, what's happened so far is canon in Pathfinder, and will continue to have taken place in 2.0. There might be some reimaginings or retcons, but don't expect to wipe several places off the map that'll still exist in 2.0.
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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Oh, and while we're on the subject of important NPCs: it's been mentioned earlier, but I want some conclusion on Drandle Dreng. Some scenarios paint him as a weird goofball, some as a kind grandfather figure, and some as a senile old man. And then School of Spirits happened. I want to know the real Dreng.
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Venture-Agent, Texas—Houston
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There is no "finale." Pathfinder Society 1.0 will end, maybe with a cool climax to commemorate, but don't expect to fundamentally change Pathfinder as we know it (unless of course it's planned by developers). As far as I understand, what's happened so far is canon in Pathfinder, and will continue to have taken place in 2.0. There might be some reimaginings or retcons, but don't expect to wipe several places off the map that'll still exist in 2.0.Anyway, any good writer should know that a character that the audience loves to hate so much, you do not kill off.... until the grand finale, which is fast approaching.
It's still a great opportunity to kill off any antagonists who may have overstayed their welcome by about 6 seasons.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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I think what people are saying is that "loves to hate" is souring into "despise how the writers always save their Mary Sue".I would strongly argue against Torch being an "idealized and seemingly perfect" character. :)
On an unrelated note, it's quite amusing the sheer number of topics in this thread that have come up in internal discussions. It's refreshing to see that we're on the right track with a lot of things. Exactly what and how... well, you'll have to wait just a bit longer!
Well maybe Mary Sue wasn't the right description... a better fit would be Batman... or more fittingly the bad meme version of said character.
"Because he is soooooo clever and has plans within plans, you really can't ever catch him, because he is so well prepared and much more clever than those stupid Pathfinders.
If he falls into a shark tank, he just has to whip out is magic shark repellant....
I really mean it you guys he is soo keeewwll"
I already heavily dislike that the scenario drags out an old instance where he cheated somehow managed to cheat the Society (Many Fortunes) but that dept really is too old. He has betrayed the Society a number of times after that, most recently in 9-00. It way to late to call.
While I am personally not thrilled that all Sages always make their saving throws Torch, of course, gets special protections...
Torch provokes strong feelings in many Pathfinders, and
while he intends no treachery in this adventure, the PCs
may decide to attack him. For gameplay purposes, assume
Torch has talismans and items that negate the first three
status effects the PCs use to incapacitate him, trap him,
or bind his soul. He has a contingency spell in place to
teleport him away if he is unconscious, and he has a clone
spell prepared if he does die. He has instant summons and
magic aura cast on the emerald sage jewel and retrieves it
at the first opportunity. Use any other methods appropriate
for a character with practically limitless resources and
information. Torch attempts to smooth over any initial
attacks the PCs make, but he flees if truly threatened,
promising to reward the PCs’ treachery soon
Does the bolded part remind anyone about a certain rich bat fancier with a succession of spy networks?
EDIT: I kinda hope that most group didn't clean his shiny sage pebble and that the people who hate Torch get a chance to kill the corrupt guy while the fans get to kill him to free him from that terrible possession.
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Oh, and while we're on the subject of important NPCs: it's been mentioned earlier, but I want some conclusion on Drandle Dreng. Some scenarios paint him as a weird goofball, some as a kind grandfather figure, and some as a senile old man. And then School of Spirits happened. I want to know the real Dreng.
But if PFS 2 is a continuation of PFS 1, won't he still be there, personality intact to kick a new generation of Pathfinders out of bed at 3am and send them off to the museum?
[If I ever get round to running a scenario where he's the brief my go-to image is Jeremy Brett as Sherlock Homes disguised as a layabout. Because in my head canon Dreng is a high level investigator.]*
* yeah, I know that's not what his stats say. But if I were ever creating the character in a home game...
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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Oh, and while we're on the subject of important NPCs: it's been mentioned earlier, but I want some conclusion on Drandle Dreng. Some scenarios paint him as a weird goofball, some as a kind grandfather figure, and some as a senile old man. And then School of Spirits happened. I want to know the real Dreng.But if PFS 2 is a continuation of PFS 1, won't he still be there, personality intact to kick a new generation of Pathfinders out of bed at 3am and send them off to the museum?
[If I ever get round to running a scenario where he's the brief my go-to image is Jeremy Brett as Sherlock Homes disguised as a layabout. Because in my head canon Dreng is a high level investigator.]*
* yeah, I know that's not what his stats say. But if I were ever creating the character in a home game...
There's a difference between deleting/altering some of PF1's history and expanding upon it. People saying "I want to blow up the Blakros Museum" miss the point. As much as you hate the place, it's still a good source of lore and adventure. On the other hand, I could see an evolution of most of the NPCs happening. There's been 10 years of stories happening, the writeup for all Venture-Captains should be different. I can see some Captains being replaced or killed off, but keeping Dreng exactly the same as he is now is just a waste of potential.
(For what it's worth, I've always suspected Dreng of faking his age, even before School of Spirits. He seems like the trickster kinda guy.)
Also, I just remembered. Amenopheus has a weird history with the Society. He's up to something, and I want to know what. He appears as a semi-antagonist in Echoes of the Everwar without explanation, and there's one or two more times I forgot where he's being shady.
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Scenario 10.x: The Last Temptation of Grandmaster Torch
Pathfinder Society agents have been called to deal with the most troublesome aspect facing the Decemvirate in the past decade, as much self-inflicted wounds as opportunism by many parties. They must burrow down deep into years of conspiracy, delusion, and failure to discover the last thing on Golarion that would cause the source of such concerns, and deal with it.
Written by Kyle Baird.
Tags: Hard Mode, Extra Hard Mode, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!
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I think what people are saying is that "loves to hate" is souring into "despise how the writers always save their Mary Sue".While I mostly want a scenario that lays out Torch's plans, justifies them, and completely vindicates him from the things he's done.That would be ** spoiler omitted **
Anyway, any good writer should know that a character that the audience loves to hate so much, you do not kill off.
I'm not sure how you can consider Torch a "Mary Sue." There are a couple reasons why this is antithetical. 1) He's not a woman. 2) He's not a hero.
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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Maybe "Mary Sue" is a bit of a misnomer, but Torch does always seem to pop up and gets the biggest slice of the pie whenever he's around. I can imagine how some people want to put him in his place.
But yeah, I agree with Mike, Osprey needs more time in the limelight.
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Maybe "Mary Sue" is a bit of a misnomer, but Torch does always seem to pop up and gets the biggest slice of the pie whenever he's around. I can imagine how some people want to put him in his place.
But yeah, I agree with Mike, Osprey needs more time in the limelight.
We need to find out where Osprey went for so many seasons.
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I can’t believe it took me this long to think of this, for season 10 I’d like to see another Kyle Baird scenario!No thank you.
Meh, your opinion. Every scenario the man has written is pretty awesome, if not a classic. His scenarios don’t pull punches, which is really satisfying as both a player and a GM. The Confirmation is still my favorite of the 1-2 scenarios, and the only one of the 1-2 evergreens that I’ve played more than once. Rats of Round Mountain pt1 has one of the most memorable final fights in a 7-11. The Sealed Gate is brutal, but in a satisfying way and features an enemy that I had never actually seen used before or since. The Technic Siege is a fun addition to Season 6, there is a lot of flexibilty in the scenario and has an NPC that uses an archetype that PC’s are prohibited from using, which is cool. Race for the Runecarved Key is kind of meh, and is one of the leading reasons people seem to dislike Sheila Heidmarch, but there’s nothing altogether awful about the multi-table.