What the above post said.
Besides, unless you really are cursed,the dice will change.
don't worry, it'll swing and normalize and be fine, OR your dice are loaded, did any players touch them?
Also don't announce that they rolled a nat one and don't say what their attack is, ask for the AC. that way they don't know if it was a 1 that missed or a 5 or a 15.
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....fudge dice tolls. You are a GM
What? This is terrible advice.
For the OP: That's just how randomness works. If you suspect your dice are physically defective, use different dice; otherwise, just wait until the rolls improve and let the players enjoy their unusually good luck. The reverse problem is much worse--it ended our Carrion Crown campaign before the end of the first chapter.
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....fudge dice tolls. You are a GMWhat? This is terrible advice.
For the OP: That's just how randomness works. If you suspect your dice are physically defective, use different dice; otherwise, just wait until the rolls improve and let the players enjoy their unusually good luck. The reverse problem is much worse--it ended our Carrion Crown campaign before the end of the first chapter.
Pretty sure it wasn't the dice.
Sometimes I wonder if I've got fairies in my house, cursing my dice and hiding my keys.*grumbles*
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If you think you have a problem with your dice, you can always use online dice rollers, or even the rand command in excel. =RANDBETWEEN(1,20)
Just give your monsters and NPCs advantage. It scares the players too when they here that many dice rolls.
I keep forgetting Pathfinder doesn't have it defined as a term. Advantage is rolling twice and taking the better.
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I generally don't fudge dice upward with monsters, but don't let anyone tell you you can't fudge dice to ameliorate deadly runs of luck. I'll do it when I'm beating the PCs up too much with lucky crits. I'll forget to add full modifiers, leave off extra dice and other effects riding the main attack, turn confirmed crits into normal hits. Little stuff here and there if I'm inflicting damage spikes that are a lot bigger than I want to inflict.
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It literally ruins the point of using a dice based game. But hey if you want to play a visual novel to each their own. To me, playing a role-playing-game needs to address both aspects. To me saying fudging the dice is ok is no different than saying cheating at board games is better because it's more fun.
My tone was perhaps more than a bit combative, and as a GM and players you have to right to play the game literally, however, you would like. However, if my GM did this without talking with us beforehand I would be quite upset, as to me it is simply cheating.
Alternate solution: Have the enemies roll more.
Your players roll perception, knowledges, int/wisdom checks. Why don't the enemies? Do they notice who is in heavy armor and decide to do something else or do they roll low?
The more rolls the better the average. Roll more than just attack rolls.
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Alternate solution: Have the enemies roll more.
Your players roll perception, knowledges, int/wisdom checks. Why don't the enemies? Do they notice who is in heavy armor and decide to do something else or do they roll low?
The more rolls the better the average. Roll more than just attack rolls.
Eh, depends on the smarts of the baddie.
I'm not going to be rolling perception for thing without brains, and limited use of it for things with animal brains.
I know the pain. My party can absolutely count on nearly any Baddie to fumble his way to failure.
Alternate solution: Have the enemies roll more.
Your players roll perception, knowledges, int/wisdom checks. Why don't the enemies? Do they notice who is in heavy armor and decide to do something else or do they roll low?
The more rolls the better the average. Roll more than just attack rolls.
Eh, depends on the smarts of the baddie.
I'm not going to be rolling perception for thing without brains, and limited use of it for things with animal brains.
True, but an int/wisdom check isn't really an action. You can always roll more dice, even with stupid and mindless creatures, to see if they do something smarter or stupider, even if by accident.
Have you checked to see if your dice are unbalanced? Drop them in a glass of salt water (for increased density) and see if they show any weird behavior on the way to the bottom or if they consistently roll the same thing in the water. If they are opaque dice, any flaws or air bubbles are impossible to see and may be big enough to skew the results.
....fudge dice tolls. You are a GMWhat? This is terrible advice.
For the OP: That's just how randomness works. If you suspect your dice are physically defective, use different dice; otherwise, just wait until the rolls improve and let the players enjoy their unusually good luck. The reverse problem is much worse--it ended our Carrion Crown campaign before the end of the first chapter.
You guys need to look into the history of being a DM a bit more. Fudging is part of the game when necessary.
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I'm in the "don't fudge it, just wait it out" crowd, though I certainly wouldn't call you a bad GM if you did.
I've had multiple games fall apart due to GMs fudging dice rolls. They weren't being purposely malicious, but it eventually became obvious that they always seemed to hit or missed when it was most plot appropriate.
And once it was established that they fudged it turned into "why didn't you fudge the roll that killed me, but presumably you fudged the roll that would've killed Joe?"
I also would suggest checking your dice balance or just trying some new dice as other posters have mentioned
salt-water test for your dice?
2 words "DM screen"
Their is such an anti-fudge crowd but DM's have been doing it since the game came out. That is why they have the DM screen in the first place. Don't do it all the time or most of the time or even half the time but if you know a certain roll would ruin your game well...
I will say that now a days I don't do it anymore but its not a terrible thing for new players to help them learn.
If your superstitious You could buy new dice. don't let anyone else touch them. (they'll curse em)
To make the anti-gm-fudge people happy. You could have an angry luck spirit (god thing) follow the players around and occasionally let their enemies re-roll dice but it adds the the encounter so they get an extra 5% exp or some such.
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An alternate way to balance encounters is to have variable enemy reinforcements. If the battle seems too easy for the PCs, they can show up earlier, or in greater numbers. If a string of lucky rolls for the GM, or unlucky rolls for the PCs, put the party on the ropes, the reinforcements can simply not show up.
That is good too. ^^
Having been running games for several decades, as the DM you don't even technically need to roll any dice.... It is part and parcel of what is known as DM's perogative. If for whatever reason you decide that having a monster hit or miss in any given situation will add to the drama of the scene, and help to create a better story. Then the dice are not necessary, and it is within your right as the Game Master to simply choose to not roll them. In fact, in my opinion it's probably better that you just roll a random die behind the screen for the sound effect and tell the players what happens.
Obviously this isn't something you want to be doing except when there is a very good reason for something to happen a certain way which creates a more compelling and entertaining story. That is the job of the Game Master afterall. I do not recommend making a habit of ignoring established game mechanics like this, but there are times when how things play out shouldn't be left to chance. So... do I fudge rolls? Not anymore, but then I don't always make the roll to begin with either.
;)
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You guys need to look into the history of being a DM a bit more. Fudging is part of the game when necessary.....fudge dice tolls. You are a GMWhat? This is terrible advice.
For the OP: That's just how randomness works. If you suspect your dice are physically defective, use different dice; otherwise, just wait until the rolls improve and let the players enjoy their unusually good luck. The reverse problem is much worse--it ended our Carrion Crown campaign before the end of the first chapter.
No, it really isn't. Fudging die rolls is absolutely never necessary. It's a crutch and eventually does more harm than good. There is always a better solution to a given problem than fudging dice.
This is gonna be one of those LG verus CG conversation. I'll be interested if it finds out which alignment is better.
Actually, Pathfinder has a built-in legitimate way for you to give the enemies the equivalent of D&D 5th Edition Advantage: They hire (or otherwise acquire) a Witch or Shaman with the Fortune(*) and Cackle/Chant Hexes and some good defensive buffs (so that they can't be easily taken out right away); either way, if not surprised, they can also pre-buff with a spell. Not sure what the module restricts you to with respect to adding characters/creatures, so here are a few options.
(*)Gives Advantage in all but name, and Cackle/Chant extends it. Since it is a buff on the Witch/Shaman's allies, PC Saves do not apply.
I mentioned both Witch and Shaman because I'm not sure what level this is at.
Witch gets started faster (could do this at 1st level with Extra Hex, even if not Human).
Shaman takes longer to get started, but is less squishy and could actually be a real pain with Combat Reflexes, decent combat stats, Dirty Fighting (replaces Combat Expertise and Int 13 as a prerequisite for Improved Combat Maneuvers), Improved/Greater Combat Maneuver (including Dirty Trick if you add Quick Dirty Trick) and a Reach weapon. For a minimal go at this (4th level Shaman), the Shaman needs Combat Reflexes, Dirty Fighting, and Improved Combat Maneuver (Disarm or Trip); the Human Bonus Feat just lets you squeeze all this in (and at 5th level, you don't need this, or you can alternatively use the Human Bonus Feat for Toughness to make the Shaman harder to kill, or for Improved Initiative to improve the chances of getting an enemy party buff off first).
An Orc Scarred Witch Doctor could stand in for the Shaman, both in being harder to kill and in taking longer to get started (archetype replaces 1st level Hex), on the one hand being armor-averse, but on the other hand having racial modifiers help out with the combat stats, and having racial traits (Orc Ferocity and possible feats that build on it) to be harder to take out of the fight.
If you want to give the PCs legitimate Disadvantage in all but name (make them look like bumbling fools), a Witch or Shaman could do it with Misfortune, but that can be saved against, so better to use Pugwampis (Unluck Aura has no Save, and you can't even Silence it, although any Luck Bonus (NOT Morale Bonus) will negate it.
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A significant proportion of players view fudging with suspicion/hostility - though with inexperienced groups it's an effective way of coping with bad difficulty balance.
If you're not going to fudge, roll your dice openly for the monsters. If there is another string of natural 1s (which, unless all of science is wrong, is unlikely to happen) the players will enjoy seeing it.
Thank for the stats Matt. I would like to compare those stats to years spent gaming I would like to know if people that have been playing longer are more or less OK with fudging then newer player. Id also want to run it against actual age and whether players prefer a more story driven campaign or a more mechanic gamey type campaign.
I think it is interesting also to think about the issue as a division between chaotic and lawful. The lawful player might say well you follow the rules whats the point of playing if you don't while the chaotic player might say if it improves the fun of the game who cares?
A significant proportion of players view fudging with suspicion/hostility - though with inexperienced groups it's an effective way of coping with bad difficulty balance.
If you're not going to fudge, roll your dice openly for the monsters. If there is another string of natural 1s (which, unless all of science is wrong, is unlikely to happen) the players will enjoy seeing it.
One slight criticism btw nothing important. You might not want to use the word significant even though I understand how your using it, in statistics it has a certain meaning. I don't think with your sample size you would be able to say that amount was significant unless you set your R-value terribly low. So i guess it might be significant that their is a lot of people but not necessarily statistically significant.
If you have ran the statistics I apologize as I'm just eye balling it and would like to see the raw stats!
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Lots of words
So I'm going to try and respond to a few of your points, but first I'd like to say I appreciate you being civil in this discussion. Too often this devolves into arguments about bad wrong fun, I am certainly not blameless in that either, and I appreciate your civility.
So first point, GM screens. GM screens are great, but your point that they are there to let you cheat as a GM and stating it like the fact is absurd to me. GM screens are there to hide your rolls, as a byproduct, this hides if you cheat. I don't want the players to see all my rolls, numbers, cheat sheets, maps, or notes, so I put them behind a screen. I do not use the GM screen to hide my rolls.
point 2, fudging in general. So when I play a game a part of the game that I and many other derive enjoyment from is beating challenges. The second you start fudging rolls, you turned on cheat codes, and I no longer feel like I really accomplished anything. To me the stories of how we barely scraped through a big fight or when the barbarian one shot the boss are what makes the game fun. The second I know the GM is fudging dice thoughts like "well did we really beat that dragon?" or "Did that monster actually kill me with that hit?" start popping up. I feel like when the GM fudges rolls to make the story "work" I stopped playing an open world role-playing game and am playing an on the rails visual novel. If I know that when we talk to the king the GM is just going to fudge the rolls so that we impress him, then why do I even care if we roll? Why do we even need to roll. Once you stop rolling your not playing a role-playing game, your just role-playing.
Point 3 and the most important, who cares. Bluntly, none of it matters. As long as it means you'll have more fun then who really cares? If putting your minis on a Candyland board and rolling potatoes instead of dice means that you and your friends have more fun then that is what you should play. But I can't speak for them, or the OP, or anyone else but myself. Thus, other than giving my opinion for what is more fun/right/wrong/better is all I can do other than saying "do whatever you think is best" to every advice post.
Yeah my problem here Is I see a good point from both sides. Which leads me to think its not so much a Bad way or a Good way to play its a personal preference. Kind of why I was equating it to Chaotic and lawful alignment. Its good right cause we all want it to be a fun and enjoyable game?
I have a friend who when given the option will always turn god mode on so he can clear the story faster. Its weird but he does do it. Even I'm like WTF?
I personally no longer fudge dice but when I was learning to run as a DM I would do it to make up for my own mistakes. maybe their was a better way but it was easiest at the time.
I do believe that back in 1st edition the primary reason gm's had the screen was to hide their rolls. I remember hearing plenty of times about gm's who didn't even roll for some things. I feel the play style has evolved a bit since then. Its not like they had CR's back then.
Yeah that is pretty solid advice^
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salt-water test for your dice?
You can check it out here.
https://lifehacker.com/check-the-balance-of-your-gaming-dice-with-a-cup-of- sal-1712657312
Just as an example of bad dice rolls for npc's sometimes making for fun. Last night while running a Star Wars game the pc's were ambushed by a pair of Droideka's , who did not manage a single hit , players were relieved and happy they also decided the Droideka's must have been badly maintained for the last few years and needed their targeting systems recalibrating.
On fudging dice, many years ago I ran a Shadowrun game were in the dramatic confrontation with a dragon the players had spent ages preparing for, the first pc made a fluke roll which killed the Dragon. Now in some games and groups this would have worked well in this case it would have killed the atmosphere and rendered the entire session un-fun. So I cheated and had the Dragon survive and put up an epic fight which everyone enjoyed and got to participate in which worked better. I would have also fudged things so that the Dragon did not kill anyone as it would have been unfair to kill someone's character with a monster which lived by GM fiat.
So both effects can be fun in depends on the game, the situation, the group and the timing. As long as you get it right everything is fine
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Take the biggest offending dice to one side.
Line up all the others so they can see it.
Smash it with a hammer and blow torch the remains.
Tell the surviving dice that is what will happen to them if they don't buck up their ideas.
Take the biggest offending dice to one side.
Line up all the others so they can see it.
Smash it with a hammer and blow torch the remains.
Tell the surviving dice that is what will happen to them if they don't buck up their ideas.
Now that's good advice. : D
Also, everything that Backpack said is excellent.
I'd like to say there is a reason to hide dice rolls besides cheating. Letting the players know the monsters to-hit is a bit much and turns into metagaming. Meta gaming just ruins the immersion.
Also the gm screen has a lot of useful stats. It is easier to find something on it rather than going to d20 or nethys.
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I'd like to say there is a reason to hide dice rolls besides cheating. Letting the players know the monsters to-hit is a bit much and turns into metagaming. Meta gaming just ruins the immersion.
Also the gm screen has a lot of useful stats. It is easier to find something on it rather than going to d20 or nethys.
This is what I was attempting to get at with my point on the screens, but i think you said id it a much more condensed and focused manner.
So I'd like to put some reference for why I feel the way I do about rules. I am primarily a PFS player and in that setting rules are law, to deviate from that is heresy. To that extent, a GM fudging dice in PFS is something I simply don't tolerate. The second you go off book, technically isn't allowed, you open doors for me accepting it.
Say the players are level 1 and they are supposed to be fighting 4 zombies. You as the GM decide to make them fast zombies because you think the party would stomp them. Now if the zombies start dropping players because you screwed the balance fudging becomes a little more acceptable.
Now a home campaign is a little different to me even still. If I as the GM end up making a fight to strong I don't like the crutch of fudging and prefer to roll with it and give the players options other than die. Maybe an ally shows up, cleverly mention an escape route, tons of other options are possible. Players sometimes get in fights that can't win and I think that letting that happen is important. If you are fudging crits to keep players alive, I feel like you should look at your monsters carefully and find the issue. If your lv 1 scenarios keep giving the baddies x3 crit weapons and power attack, either understand that some players die at lv 1 or change the monsters.
The solution to your dice woes is almost certainly to learn to roll correctly. Steal the dice rolling style of a casino. Don't drop it in front of yourself, throw it across the table. Don't just roll it along the table, but bounce it off a back wall. And never close your hand around the dice; open palm, facing up, dice just sit cradled there. You'll get a more randomized spread and avoid this type of stuff (and the sudden high-roll heavy nonsense).
As fun as that might be, a dice tower is probably a reasonably acceptable alternative. Be sure to make it out of a sufficiently hard material and use solid metal dice so that everyone in a 2 mile radius will know you're rolling them bones.
Play it up when that happens and just have fun with it. Maybe actually make the bumbling noobs.