Help me maximize Lightning Bolt use - Theologian Cleric


Advice


As the title says, I want to specialize in casting Lightning Bolt, as a Theologian Cleric (Lightning Domain)

Some background:
My group of friends is playing the Iron Gods campaign, and I had a Dwarf Warpriest (that I hated) for while in it. For reasons, I was unable to join the sessions for 7 whole levels. They're now at 15th level and are allowing me to rebuild my character, so I've decided to rebuild as a Theologian Cleric who's focused on Lightning Bolt.

My plan was to make use of feats like Spell Perfection, Preferred Spell, etc to maximize my usage of Lightning Bolt, filling most of my spell slots with it to be a battle cleric (Sort of based on Dark Souls miracles). I'm just having a lot of trouble wrapping my head around the different metamagic feats and which ones to take.

I would love some help with this build, thanks!


Take one level of sorcerer, bloodline blue dragon, to increase your lightning damage per die by one. Consider being dual-blooded with orc, for another +1 damage per die, or with stormborn, to increase your DC with lightning by 1. Consider being a tattooed sorcerer to increase your caster level with evocations if you don't go with dual-blooded, or if your GM allows you to mix the two archetypes.

Dazing and Quickened should be two of the three metamagic feats you pick to qualify for Spell Perfection. I don't care much for Preferred Spell myself, but if you take it, your third metamagic feat will be Heightened Spell. Otherwise, consider Elemental Spell for the last, since it will allow you to bypass electrical damage resistance, which is fairly common. Selective Spell would also be a good choice, as would Empowered.

Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, and the Greater version of each give bonuses that double from spell perfection, as does Caster's Tattoo, which you would get from being a tattooed sorcerer.

The Magical Lineage trait will make adding metamagic to your lightning spell much better, as will wayang spell hunter.

Spend some gold to increase your spells available--A lesser rod of echoing spell is cheaper than three 3rd level pearls of power. Of course you will want the highest wisdom headband you can afford.

Buy yourself a few blocks of Incense of Meditation. Use them whenever you're sure you'll have a long day of adventuring; you will do astonishing amounts of damage.

Have fun!


The Blockbuster wizard guide will help your cleric also. Just skip the wizard specific stuff.
The very basic blasting feats are: Spell focus, Greater spell focus,
Intensify spell, Empower spell, Quicken spell, Spell Perfection. If you must skip one, skip Empower and get it as rod. Extremely useful are Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration and Dazing spell.
At level 15 Spell specialization will help penetrate SR but it is not as great as it is for lower level caster as you can not get more than 15d6 damage with intensify out of the lightning bolt.
A definitive must is the Magical lineage trait. With this you can toss Intensified Empowered Quickened Lightning bolts out of 5th level slot.
Then cast Intensified Empowered Dazing bolt from a 5th level slot.
Just fill your 3rd, 4th, and 5th level slots with metamagiced lightning bolts and add extra metamagics with Spell Perfection.
I recommend a few Dispel Magics and Greater Dispels as the Technic league mages and clerics will quickly start using Resist and Protection from energy.

One strategy is, instead of lightning bolt as specialized and Perfected spell, is take chain lightning. The area is better than lightning bolt and it already does 15d6 (17d6 if specialized) at your level. There is not that much room to add metamagic. You can add empower to deal 25d6 and then cast a quickened one due to magical lineage. With this approach there is no need to use over 6th level slots for the Chain lightning as you can just use Spell Perfection to add metamagic on the fly.
Edit: also what Keep Calm and Carrion said.

The Exchange

I assume, as a Theologian, you'll be using your Domain Secret feature to permanently add Intensify to your lightning bolt spell for free? Since you're not likely to need intensify on anything else with this type of concept, that means you can skip having to actually take that Feat.

Beyond that it's +1 to the Dazing Spell (turns your lightning bolt into a save or suck spell), Quicken Spell (basically a free extra casting per turn, in action-economy terms) and Elemental Spell (for when you face stuff that's immune to electricity). Anything else is gravy (you'll be chucking out a Quickened Intensified lightning bolt followed by a Dazing Intensified lightning bolt just using two 3rd level slots each round). Ectoplasmic Spell is helpful if you face incorporeal stuff - but I don't know the AP, so I don't know how important that'll be. It all depends on how many Feats you want to drop on metamagic beyond the three needed for Spell Perfection.

Remember that with lightning bolt as your main trick you could invest in Elemental Focus and Greater Elemental Focus along with the Spell Focus Feats and, with Spell Perfection, you'll be boosting the save DC of your bolts by +8... but along with three metemagic Feats and Spell Perfection that'd take all 8 of your Feats (baring bonus Feats from anywhere).


Wow. Those were some nicely in-depth answers! Thank you, both of you! I won't be multiclassing, but I'll definitely take what you've said and use that to create my build. Very helpful!

The Exchange

Also keep in mind that 3rd level Pearls of Power are only 9,000gp a pop, and you'll be chucking out level 7-8 equivalent spells when you use them...

Silver Crusade

Dwarf 1 Sorcerer(Orc OR Draconic bloodline + Blood Havoc)/1 Loremaster/13 Cleric (Theologian)

Stats: 7 14 12+2 12+2(Ioun Stone) 18+2(Dwarf)+3(lvl)+6(Headband) 8-2

Traits: Magical Lineage(Chain Lightning), Outlander, Missionary(Chain Lightning, x, x)[Lighting Bolt is already maximised], Wayang Spellhunter(Lightning Bolt)[if drawbacks are allowed].

Feats:
1 Spell Focus (evocation)
3 Spell Specialisation (Chain Lightning)
5 Empower Spell
6(Theologian) Intensify Spell (Lightning Bolt)
7 Dazing Spell
9 Quicken Spell
11 Skill Focus(Knowledge[Planes/Religion]) this allows you to go Loremaster, do not lose spell progression and delay the Theologian Domain Secret, so that it can be applied to 6th level spells. Also, you get free Toughness or +2 to Will.
12(Theologian) Intensify Spell (Chain Lightning)
13 Varisian Tattoo (evocation)
15 Spell Perfection (Chain Lightning)

At 15th level you can cast 7th level spells.
You can cast Chain Lightning for 21d6+42 damage as a 6th level spell; adding Empower for 1.5x21d6+64 damage, Dazing or Quicken do not increase the spell level. In one round, you could cast Quicken Chain Lightning AND Dazing/Empower Chain Lightning for a total of ~52.5d6+105 damage + Dazing AoE as two 7th level spells.

You can also cast Lightning Bolt for 15d6+30 points of damage as a 3rd level spell; Empowered: 1.5x15d6+45 as a 4th/5th level spell (depending on Wayang Spellhunter); Dazing: 15d6+30 + Dazing as a 5th/6th level spell. It doesn't make much sense to cast it Quickened as it becomes a 6th/7th level spell, and you're just better off casting Quicken Chain Lightning with no level increment via Spell Perfection.

Beads of Karma allow you to improve your CL by +4, hence reaching the 25d6 damage cap on (Intensified) Chain Lightning.

The Exchange

I don't think you can cast Quickened chain lightning with Spell Perfection, as the modified spell level (6+4) would be over the Feat's cap of 9.


ProfPotts wrote:
I don't think you can cast Quickened chain lightning with Spell Perfection, as the modified spell level (6+4) would be over the Feat's cap of 9.

You can with magical lineage. It'll be the only metamagic you could apply to it, though.


There has been a lot of debate on that, about which way Spell Perfection works.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Personally, in those situations it is best to err on the side of non-debate. Just focus on LB.

Silver Crusade

Kiesman wrote:
There has been a lot of debate on that, about which way Spell Perfection works.

Calculate: Total Modified Spell Level (TMSL) = Spell Level (SL) + Metamagic A SL increment + Metamagic B SL + ... - 1 if Magical Lineage

If TMSL <= 9, one Megamacic Feat is applied for free.

The Exchange

Ah yes, Magical Lineage - good point, I'd missed that.


Grey Warden wrote:
Dwarf 1 Sorcerer(Orc OR Draconic bloodline + Blood Havoc)/1 Loremaster/13 Cleric (Theologian)
Blood Havoc only affects bloodrager sorcerer spells
Blood Havoc wrote:
Whenever you cast a bloodrager or sorcerer spell that deals damage, add 1 point of damage per die rolled.

Silver Crusade

WagnerSika wrote:
Grey Warden wrote:
Dwarf 1 Sorcerer(Orc OR Draconic bloodline + Blood Havoc)/1 Loremaster/13 Cleric (Theologian)
Blood Havoc only affects bloodrager sorcerer spells
Blood Havoc wrote:
Whenever you cast a bloodrager or sorcerer spell that deals damage, add 1 point of damage per die rolled.

Damn, I forgot about that. Good catch. Crossblooded Orc+Draconic then to maximise damage, or Tattooed Orc OR Draconic to save one feat on Varisian Tattoo.


I would take orc over draconic, since the damage bonus applies to all spell damage, not just one element. Also you get free darkvision. 1st level bloodline power is meh, I would trade it for a familiar with the tattooed sorcerer archetype.


Is there a more interesting archetype than Loremaster to take to delay the Theologian effect?

Silver Crusade

Kiesman wrote:
Is there a more interesting archetype than Loremaster to take to delay the Theologian effect?

Loremaster is a Prestige Class, not an archetype. To do the trick, you need a PrC that gives you full spell progression, otherwise you'd delay both the extra feat and the level you get 6th level spells. They aren't many, and furthermore they usually require many prerequisites.

Loremaster is easy to qualify for since, in your case, requires only one extra feat (Skill Focus), and if you had high enough Int, you could potentially get that feat back. If not, you can still get Toughness.

But better off, if you don't want to spend that feat, you could go Soul Warden, which has no feat prerequisites.

Other options include:
Harrower, requires Harrowed feat;
Envoy of Balance, requires Augment Summoning, Improved Counterspell, or Versatile Channeler;
Hell Knight Enforcer, requires Warrior Priest feat;
Veiled Illusionist, requires Spell Focus (Illusion);
Green Faith Acolyte, requires Green Faith Acolyte feat;
Inheritor's Crusader, requires Iron Will;

Other PrC might be suitable but require more feats. This is a good starting point to look for them (there might be more though).


You could take a level in either diabolist or stargazer without feat prerequisites, although they're limited to certain alignments. With feats there's also divine scion or exalted.

Silver Crusade

Avoron wrote:
You could take a level in either diabolist or stargazer without feat prerequisites, although they're limited to certain alignments. With feats there's also divine scion or exalted.

Diabolist has been nerfed: it requires now Fiendish Obedience and makes you lose the 1st spellcasting level, which defies the whole purpose of the PrC dip.

Stargazer requires you to worship Pulura, who doesn't grant Lightning subdomain.
Divine Scion requires both Iron Will and Weapon Focus.
Exalted requires both Deific Obedience and Skill Focus.

Liberty's Edge

While this thread hasn't gotten stale quite yet, I would like to check something:

Gnome Theologian (Fire Domain) with Pyromaniac Alternate Racial Trait +Starting Traits: Magical Lineage: Burning Hands
Wayang Spellhunter:Burning Hands

And Empower Spell first level feat.

Gnomes with pyromaniac are treated as 1 level higher when casting spells with the Fire descriptor. =CL2 2d4

Theologian Focused Domain: All level-dependent effects of the granted powers from the theologian’s domain function as if she were two cleric levels higher than her actual cleric level.=+2 CLs=4d4

Empower Spell Metamagic Feat: +50% =6d4 at level 1 (Cast as a 1st level spell from the two starting traits lowering the spell slot from 3 to 1)

So is 6d4 the proper Damage amount for this spell at level 1 with the given variables?


Meux Feux wrote:

While this thread hasn't gotten stale quite yet, I would like to check something:

Gnome Theologian (Fire Domain) with Pyromaniac Alternate Racial Trait +Starting Traits: Magical Lineage: Burning Hands
Wayang Spellhunter:Burning Hands

And Empower Spell first level feat.

Gnomes with pyromaniac are treated as 1 level higher when casting spells with the Fire descriptor. =CL2 2d4

Theologian Focused Domain: All level-dependent effects of the granted powers from the theologian’s domain function as if she were two cleric levels higher than her actual cleric level.=+2 CLs=4d4

Empower Spell Metamagic Feat: +50% =6d4 at level 1 (Cast as a 1st level spell from the two starting traits lowering the spell slot from 3 to 1)

So is 6d4 the proper Damage amount for this spell at level 1 with the given variables?

Not quite. Empower spell multiplies the result rolled, not the number of dice. You would roll 4d4, then multiply the result by 1.5.


Burning hands is not a granted power, so you don't get +2CL.


Gray Warden wrote:

Dwarf 1 Sorcerer(Orc OR Draconic bloodline + Blood Havoc)/1 Loremaster/13 Cleric (Theologian)

Stats: 7 14 12+2 12+2(Ioun Stone) 18+2(Dwarf)+3(lvl)+6(Headband) 8-2

Traits: Magical Lineage(Chain Lightning), Outlander, Missionary(Chain Lightning, x, x)[Lighting Bolt is already maximised], Wayang Spellhunter(Lightning Bolt)[if drawbacks are allowed].

Feats:
1 Spell Focus (evocation)
3 Spell Specialisation (Chain Lightning)
5 Empower Spell
6(Theologian) Intensify Spell (Lightning Bolt)
7 Dazing Spell
9 Quicken Spell
11 Skill Focus(Knowledge[Planes/Religion]) this allows you to go Loremaster, do not lose spell progression and delay the Theologian Domain Secret, so that it can be applied to 6th level spells. Also, you get free Toughness or +2 to Will.
12(Theologian) Intensify Spell (Chain Lightning)
13 Varisian Tattoo (evocation)
15 Spell Perfection (Chain Lightning)

At 15th level you can cast 7th level spells.
You can cast Chain Lightning for 21d6+42 damage as a 6th level spell; adding Empower for 1.5x21d6+64 damage, Dazing or Quicken do not increase the spell level. In one round, you could cast Quicken Chain Lightning AND Dazing/Empower Chain Lightning for a total of ~52.5d6+105 damage + Dazing AoE as two 7th level spells.

You can also cast Lightning Bolt for 15d6+30 points of damage as a 3rd level spell; Empowered: 1.5x15d6+45 as a 4th/5th level spell (depending on Wayang Spellhunter); Dazing: 15d6+30 + Dazing as a 5th/6th level spell. It doesn't make much sense to cast it Quickened as it becomes a 6th/7th level spell, and you're just better off casting Quicken Chain Lightning with no level increment via Spell Perfection.

Beads of Karma allow you to improve your CL by +4, hence reaching the 25d6 damage cap on (Intensified) Chain Lightning.

I think this ^ is the way to go, 1crossblooded sorcerer (orc/draconic-blue)/1Loremaster/13TheoCleric. This is probably the best bang for your buck. Instead of Toughness or Iron Will, use your dip in Loremaster to pick up the Dreamed Secrets feat. Access to two sorc spells 1 level lower than your own is pretty spiffy. Especially if you mix it up with Contingency + Lightning Bolt or Chain Lightning ("If an enemy attacks or casts a harmful spell on me, I want Lightning Bolt/Chain Lightning to be casted against that enemy"), or Disintegrate, and once you get to lvl 15 Cleric, you can use this to get Limited Wish. Contingency is 1day/lvl or until discharged, so the next day you could pick something else if your Contingency hasn't been met.

Also, consider getting Mnemonic Vestments so you can cast at least 1 unprepared spell per day. This is pretty handy, especially when paired with the Dreamed Secrets feat (so now you can cast an unprepared spell once per day from the Sorc list too).

Also, consider going Half-elf for a race so you can get the Paragon Surge spell. Basically for a 3rd lvl spell slot, you can pick up any feat for which you meet the prereq's for 1min/lvl. Need a Metamagic feat that you don't have? Need Elemental Spell? /cast Paragon Surge. You can change the feat chosen every day. Also, swap Multi talented racial trait for Multidisciplined for a +1CL to both Sorc spells and Cleric spells. Half Elves have two FCB choices: Cleric: Add +1/3 to the amount of damage dealt or damage healed when the cleric uses channel energy.
Cleric: Add a +1/4 bonus on caster level checks to remove afflictions (curses, diseases, poisons, etc.). Either one is good, I’d probably go for the bonus to channeling if you're the group's only healer, or +CL vs afflictions if you're the only one who can remove curses/disease/poison. If your group has both of these, I think you'll get more mileage from the channeling bonus, personally.

As far as items are concerned, you should look into Shoes of Lightning Leaping (I think this works well thematically), and get an Orange Prism Ioun Stone (+1 CL), Beads of Karma (+4 CL) and Pearls of Power at the various levels. Make sure you get a Pearl of Power at your primary blasting levels (like 3rd/6th/7th lvl slots).


Also, consider getting a Brooch of Amber Sparks.

.

Brooch of Amber Sparks

Aura faint abjuration and evocation; CL 5th; Slot neck; Price 16,800 gp; Weight 1 lb.

DESCRIPTION

This copper clasp adorned with a piece of amber is used to fasten a cloak or cape. When its wearer takes electricity damage, this brooch absorbs up to 20 points of electrical damage and holds that electrical charge until it is released by its wielder or harmlessly at the end of 10 minutes, whichever occurs first. The brooch can absorb up to 50 points of electricity damage per day. The wielder can release the charge on command, unleashing any electricity in the brooch as if casting a shocking grasp spell (dealing 1d6 points of electricity damage per 5 points of damage held).

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

Craft Wondrous Item, resist energy, shocking grasp; Cost 8,400 gp.

.

If you use your Lightning Rod ability from the Lightning domain, you will take electricity damage, this brooch would offset some of that damage and allow you to release a 10d6 lightning blast with a command.

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