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I just want to play a leshy!!!You can play a leshy now! It just has to have a leshy warden druid friend that you also cart around. Just ask Oak Sprout about that. I loved that character.
Seriously, I have seen other people who have played the familiar as the main PC. Why not you?
My much beloved Leshy Warden is a grippli, and I very much love my froggy friend. I love his sidekick Twiggy, too.
But I'd really love to play a Leshykineticist. That seems like it would be amazing fun.
PFS sanctioned food fight!
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My personal experience with new products added to PFS -- and it has mostly improved over the past couple of years -- is that when things are properly vetted for the OrgPlay team, then they are 'released into the wild'.
Said it before in this thread, bears repeating -- I would very much like to see Ultimate Wilderness 'in play'.
That being said, I'd **MUCH** rather see it done right the first time, than six years from now a future PDT member going "Okay, we're going to completely rebuild the Shifter to something worse."
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Truthfully I think the Shifter needs WORK. Just authorize the rest of the book and wait till the devs fix it.
Most of the folks I know want other things from the book, like poison harvesting, feats, and boons with the magic plants (they are too awesome for regular use but they scream ‘chronicle boon’)
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There are questions about what Wild Shape is, and how it interacts with Druid Wild Shape, for example... or with Hunter Aspects... etc, etc
Yeah, lots of ‘is this equivalent to that’ still needs to be hashed out. Truthfully the rest of the book most likely could have been put up a bit earlier while the class was hashed out.
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The problem with a piecemeal approach is that if there is only 'one thing' left and then another product releases (say, 'Ascendant Adventures') in a couple of months, then the OPT has to look at the subsequent newer release or have the possibility of becoming backlogged (or even further backlogged).
In the meantime, those folks who did purchase the book on good faith and are waiting patiently have to wait until... until the class in the book has been approved for play and it will have been kicked down in priority because it is 'one item' versus 'a whole book'.
I can understand frustration on all sides of this -- in a different campaign having to go through the rules interactions to approve new material could take *years* and that was moving *fast*.
And then there would be grumbles that it didn't address the concerns that had brought up the request for new material approval in the first place, and we'd be playing 'catch-up' on things we thought were done.
This is the cause for concern.
Measure Twice, Cut Once versus Measure Once, then cut a whole bunch of times to get it 'right'
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Yeah, lots of ‘is this equivalent to that’ still needs to be hashed out. Truthfully the rest of the book most likely could have been put up a bit earlier while the class was hashed out.
There are questions about what Wild Shape is, and how it interacts with Druid Wild Shape, for example... or with Hunter Aspects... etc, etc
There is an FAQ clarifying wild shape.
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Tallow:
There's nothing in the FAQ about what the interactions between druidic Wild Shape and Shifter Wild Shape are. And if the current Shifter Wild Shape is maintained, there are folks who are going to 'double-dip' to get the unleashed vesion AND the claws of Shifter.
We REALLY don't need to see another Lore Warden in the Making.
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Shouldn't. The polymorph rules are quite clear. And the Shifter's wildshape doesn't say it stacks with the Druid wildshape. So I don't see how anything could be used together to get more power than you normally would have with either of the abilities.
I've seen a few concerns around how some stuff interacts that have nothing to do with attempting to stack the two Wild Shapes together.
If you're a Druid 1/Shifter 4 and you take Shaping Focus, what happens?
If you're a Druid 1/Shifter 4 with Beast of the Society, what happens?
If you're a Druid 4/Shifter 3 how do Shifter's Claws interact with the Druid Wild Shape?
etc
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Shouldn't. The polymorph rules are quite clear. And the Shifter's wildshape doesn't say it stacks with the Druid wildshape. So I don't see how anything could be used together to get more power than you normally would have with either of the abilities.I've seen a few concerns around how some stuff interacts that have nothing to do with attempting to stack the two Wild Shapes together.
If you're a Druid 1/Shifter 4 and you take Shaping Focus, what happens?
If you're a Druid 1/Shifter 4 with Beast of the Society, what happens?
If you're a Druid 4/Shifter 3 how do Shifter's Claws interact with the Druid Wild Shape?
etc
These are questions that don't have a perfectly intuitive answer. However, I don't think they need the interaction to be spelled out in an FAQ or with the Shifter class.
1) Since neither wild shape work together, and the Shifter's Claws don't work with the Druid Wild Shape (see answer 3 below), then the only thing that happens is you act as a Druid 5 for Druid wild shape and Shifter 4 for Shifter Wilde Shape.
2) You pick which class you want to add wild shape time to. Although this shouldn't preclude making the Shifter legal, since its just a trait. This can be easily handled in the Campaign Clarifications, and may already have been for the next update.
3) Shifter's Claws don't interact with the Druid's wild shape. Because 2 polymorph effects can't take place at the same time, unless they specifically note otherwise. Such as how the Shifter's Claws work with the Shifter's Major Form. Its important to note exactly how that's written in the Shifter class, and how the Wild Shape doesn't say it stacks with Druid Wild Shape.
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1) Since neither wild shape work together, and the Shifter's Claws don't work with the Druid Wild Shape (see answer 3 below), then the only thing that happens is you act as a Druid 5 for Druid wild shape and Shifter 4 for Shifter Wilde Shape.
Except that the Shifter Wild Shape ability says, "Shifters can take feats and other abilities that require wild shape; for the purpose of qualifying for prerequisites, her effective druid level is equal to her shifter level."
Shaping Focus is a feat that requires Wild Shape. Therefore the Shifter is able to use his Shifter level as an effective Druid level. So what exactly is your explanation for why the effects of Shaping Focus wouldn't apply to the Shifter's Wild Shape? If anything, I'd think someone like a Druid 4/Shifter 4 would even have both versions of Wild Shape function at effective level 8, since nothing in the feat says it would only apply to one version of your Wild Shape.
2) You pick which class you want to add wild shape time to. Although this shouldn't preclude making the Shifter legal, since its just a trait. This can be easily handled in the Campaign Clarifications, and may already have been for the next update.
Why? Nothing in the trait says you can only apply to one version of Wild Shape.
3) Shifter's Claws don't interact with the Druid's wild shape. Because 2 polymorph effects can't take place at the same time, unless they specifically note otherwise. Such as how the Shifter's Claws work with the Shifter's Major Form. Its important to note exactly how that's written in the Shifter class, and how the Wild Shape doesn't say it stacks with Druid Wild Shape.
This doesn't really have anything to do with multiple polymorph effects. Most people are confused about whether or not the benefits of Shifter's Claws (counting as magic, etc) would apply to their natural attacks if they use Druid Wild Shape instead of Shifter Wild Shape.
For this one, however, I think the answer is clear because the Shifter's Claws ability says they apply the benefits when, "a shifter uses wild shape to assume her aspect‘s major form".
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1) Since neither wild shape work together, and the Shifter's Claws don't work with the Druid Wild Shape (see answer 3 below), then the only thing that happens is you act as a Druid 5 for Druid wild shape and Shifter 4 for Shifter Wilde Shape.Except that the Shifter Wild Shape ability says, "Shifters can take feats and other abilities that require wild shape; for the purpose of qualifying for prerequisites, her effective druid level is equal to her shifter level."
Shaping Focus is a feat that requires Wild Shape. Therefore the Shifter is able to use his Shifter level as an effective Druid level. So what exactly is your explanation for why the effects of Shaping Focus wouldn't apply to the Shifter's Wild Shape? If anything, I'd think someone like a Druid 4/Shifter 4 would even have both versions of Wild Shape function at effective level 8, since nothing in the feat says it would only apply to one version of your Wild Shape.
Using it as a prerequisite does not mean it stacks as Druid wildshape. Every other iteration of wild shape specifically indicates how it stacks with Druid's wildshape.
2) You pick which class you want to add wild shape time to. Although this shouldn't preclude making the Shifter legal, since its just a trait. This can be easily handled in the Campaign Clarifications, and may already have been for the next update.Why? Nothing in the trait says you can only apply to one version of Wild Shape.
But no other trait that adds to things like this, adds it to both classes that grant you something. So if you had a trait that added to channel class feature, it would not add to both your Life Oracle and your Cleric channel. You'd have to pick which class the trait applies to. Note, I never said it wouldn't work with the Shifter's wild shape. Just that you wouldn't get to add it to both.
3) Shifter's Claws don't interact with the Druid's wild shape. Because 2 polymorph effects can't take place at the same time, unless they specifically note otherwise. Such as how the Shifter's Claws work with the Shifter's Major Form. Its important to note exactly how that's written in the Shifter class, and how the Wild Shape doesn't say it stacks with Druid Wild Shape.This doesn't really have anything to do with multiple polymorph effects. Most people are confused about whether or not the benefits of Shifter's Claws (counting as magic, etc) would apply to their natural attacks if they use Druid Wild Shape instead of Shifter Wild Shape.
For this one, however, I think the answer is clear...
Not sure how they are confusing. Shifter's Claws says it works for the Major Form. Not for Wild Shape in general. It would not work for the natural weapons of a Druid's wild shape.
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I don't think anybody's asking about the two kinds of Wild Shape stacking. More just questions like the ones I mentioned above.
If the wild shapes are separate abilities, and don't stack, then why are people confused about how other shifter abilities, that explain explicitly how they interact with the shifter wild shape, work with druid wild shape?
Just because shifter wild shape allows you to use it as a prerequisite wherever wild shape is listed, does not mean that Druid Wild Shape interacts or interfaces with any of the shifter abilities.
It does not.
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I don't think anybody's asking about the two kinds of Wild Shape stacking. More just questions like the ones I mentioned above.If the wild shapes are separate abilities, and don't stack, then why are people confused about how other shifter abilities, that explain explicitly how they interact with the shifter wild shape, work with druid wild shape?
Just because shifter wild shape allows you to use it as a prerequisite wherever wild shape is listed, does not mean that Druid Wild Shape interacts or interfaces with any of the shifter abilities.
It does not.
People aren't confused about how Shifter abilities interact with Druid Wild Shape so much as they're confused about how old, pre-Shifter material works with Shifter Wild Shape.
The ones I stated above are just a few examples of the things I've seen people asking about, because the wording in Shifter Wild Shape isn't as clear as it could be in that regard.
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I don't think anybody's asking about the two kinds of Wild Shape stacking. More just questions like the ones I mentioned above.If the wild shapes are separate abilities, and don't stack, then why are people confused about how other shifter abilities, that explain explicitly how they interact with the shifter wild shape, work with druid wild shape?
Just because shifter wild shape allows you to use it as a prerequisite wherever wild shape is listed, does not mean that Druid Wild Shape interacts or interfaces with any of the shifter abilities.
It does not.
People aren't confused about how Shifter abilities interact with Druid Wild Shape so much as they're confused about how old, pre-Shifter material works with Shifter Wild Shape.
The ones I stated above are just a few examples of the things I've seen people asking about, because the wording in Shifter Wild Shape isn't as clear as it could be in that regard.
Shifter Wildshape works almost identically to Druid Wildshape, mechanically. The main difference is the abilities you actually get by using it. Therefore, unless another ability, feat, trait, or whatever, that interacts with Druid Wildshape, interacts on the specific abilities granted, it should interact exactly the same. If it interacts on abilities granted, then it wouldn't interact at all, unless something specifically says otherwise.
Like Planar Wildshape likely would not work at all, but Natural Casting would.
I think these instances are few enough that that making the Shifter legal should be ok. And the answers to these questions are typically intuitive enough, that there shouldn't be much table variation in how they work.
And barring that, as long as players go under the assumption that druid wildshapey things don't work with shifter wildshapey things, then there shouldn't be any issues.
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Oh, I agree that it shouldn't stop them from making Shifter legal. I'm probably more impatient to have that AR update go live than most other people. I just also agree with others that there are still some kinks to be worked out.
Agreed. But I don't think its more kinks, currently, post-FAQ, than what the Magus needed when it first came out.
Does it normally take this long for paizo to add stuff to the website? John said it was "submitted and queued for addition to the website." 2 week ago already. It's been 3 months since the last update, it's getting kind of silly.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16
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Does it normally take this long for paizo to add stuff to the website? John said it was "submitted and queued for addition to the website." 2 week ago already. It's been 3 months since the last update, it's getting kind of silly.
I used to work as a web developer that had to update websites as part of my responsibilities. If the AR page is not part of the site's CMS, then a web developer has to update the page as opposed to a non-tech employee updating it themselves. In such a case, an employee has to submit a request to the development team with the copy (which is probably what John was referring to). How long a development team takes to do this can vary based on workload. Implementing the site change and fixing all the bugs is likely taking priority (as it should).