I have been following the great ranged debate thread
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2unt6?How-can-Ranged-Combat-even-be-feasible
Now some of the comments over there have me seriously rethinking a tradition I have. Almost all of my characters are armed with a sling/20 bullets/belt pouch. Total cost 1.2 gp. I like the "backup" weapon element, cheap, decentish range, not to big, etc... I am not saying that it is my prime weapon, even my prime ranged weapon (well sometimes)...however if the character is proficient in it, they have it.
Now I am seriously wondering if I am wasting the 1.2 gp...and if that is a big deal...
I don't see it as a waste: just as a cold iron dagger is not a waste. You're paying minimal resources for something that may come in handy.
Your foe starts flying and you're a melee character? Just sling some bullets at him, simple as that. Not a waste IMO at all.
Even if it is a complete waste, you've wasted a gold piece. Even at level 1 that's almost nothing.
Slings have no weight, and no cost - so no loss there. Ammo has a decent cost per bullet in terms of weight, but most 1st level toons have 1-2sp to spare, and only a -4STR toon really has to worry about that 5-10lb encumbrance. Slings can be easily smuggled in places, and easily abandoned if you need to draw a melee suddenly (its free, get a another one later).
If you have any STR you add that to damage at range before bow users can.
DR/B penetration, at range, at early levels when DR/S -DR/B are not uncommon.
Rocks are free, and can theoretically be picked up mid combat.
As to wasting actions - what else would your melee toon be doing with his time if he wasn't firing a sling? At the levels backup slings are relevant - probably not much.
Doing ANY damage, or breaking concentration, or targeting important objects like potions is a valuable addition. And there is always the possibility of a crit, so even with a 1/20 chance to hit, you can still hit and contribute and at a 50ft range increment to boot.
What are the realistic alternatives? Crossbow - 35/50gp 1d8/1d10 better crit - 4-8lb + bolt costs 1gp and 1lb/10 stack. Superior in almost every way, except: lacking +STR, DR/P is far less common than DR/B, expensive and heavier.
Cantrips: 1d3 25-30ft (+1dmg if using alchemical power component) - Free, no weight, targets touch for low BAB classes. Worse range, no STR bonus (could be an advantage for -STR toons), elemental energy damage.
Javelin - 1gp, 2lb 30ft range 1d6 - not terrible, action to draw as a weapon between shots so same economy as a full action sling. Shorter range, vulnerable to DR/B (AND DR/S). Option as a -4 attack emergency melee weapon, one handed (meaning you can cast/melee with the other).
Slings are not ideal, but at early levels they really shine for both low STR toons and high STR toons. And benefit from point blank/precise shot which many classes can afford to take.
Against a Skeleton with DR/B - 1d4+STR sling bullet. 1d3 (+1?) acid orb cantrip. 0dmg ray of frost cantrip (Immunity to cold). 1d8-5 Light Crossbow bolt. 1d10-5 Heavy Crossbow bolt. 1d6-5 +STR. Slings kills it first (If 0 or + STR), with a +1 STR or more Cantrips with alchemical power components do less damage. Only the Heavy crossbow out-damages it, but few 1st level toons can afford one, and they probably specialized in it if they tried.
You have at least four options:
1) Spend 1.2 gp on the sling and bullets
2) Spend 1.2 gp on something else
3) Add 1.2 gp to some thing you're already buying so you can get a better version of that thing
4) Save the 1.2 gp for the future
Which of those options leave you better prepared?
Ok, I guess there were to many comments similar to "Range sucks unless you sink a bunch of resources into it" and thinking of my level 7 arcanist with his sling, ready to go if he needs it...don't think I have used it in 5 levels or so, but still have it ready just in case...
Ok, I guess there were to many comments similar to "Range sucks unless you sink a bunch of resources into it" and thinking of my level 7 arcanist with his sling, ready to go if he needs it...don't think I have used it in 5 levels or so, but still have it ready just in case...
Anti-magic fields are a thing, and few wizards/arcanists are willing to close and throw their backup dagger inside one, so a sling become relevant again.
Elementals are a threat to specialists, being able to do SOMETHING when all your offensive spells are facing immunity helps the party. Yes there are ways around it (Scrolls, meta magic, spells variety, bonded item spontaneous spell, etc), but the sling is still worth just having, usually.
Now I am seriously wondering if I am wasting the 1.2 gp...and if that is a big deal...
It is not a big deal.
Only you can tell us if it's been a waste of money. Have your characters ever benefited from having these slings?
All have at one time or another, normally I could ditch them a lot earlier than I do (I never ditch them permanently)
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cantrips lose to sling
You can use alchemical power compoenents from adventurers armory and a single alchemical power reageant from the alchemy manual. For example you can use brimstone and an acid flask to get 1d3+1 that lasts a round longer. That makes it effectively 2d3+2 average of 6 damage.
So you need a strength of +3 to get an average of 6.5 damage on a sling. Now the cost is an issue until you realize false focus is a feat and is always worth taking.
cantrips lose to slingYou can use alchemical power compoenents from adventurers armory and a single alchemical power reageant from the alchemy manual. For example you can use brimstone and an acid flask to get 1d3+1 that lasts a round longer. That makes it effectively 2d3+2 average of 6 damage.
So you need a strength of +3 to get an average of 6.5 damage on a sling. Now the cost is an issue until you realize false focus is a feat and is always worth taking.
I had no idea about the brimstone reagents as well, good to know.
Another advantage to slings: The bullets are an amazing target for the light cantrip. Cast, load, fire if your archers need light at 50ft or more. Free action drop because it is only 1sp (or a free stone).
My first PF sorcerer once carried an underwater light crossbow around for 4 levels (3-6) before abandoning it without firing in anger. Mind you, running out of spells was something that happened just the once in that period. For an arcanist with less spell slots or a non-spellcaster with less options it might have been more useful.
I always carry several minor backup weapons. They have saved me at least 3 times over the course of around 12 years of tabletop gaming. Yes a sling typically losses to cantrips but it also costs 1.2gp compared to a spell known/prepared. Even a cantrip slot is worth more than that. In other words go for it. Mundane equipment saves lives
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You know what's another nice thing about backup weapons?
You can give them away. To people you meet who feel scared. To people you rescued. To some child who wants to grow up and become a big warrior some day. To a party member who didn't bring a backup sword for the one that just got eaten by a rust monster.
You should always have a ranged weapon, and if you read the entire thread you will see that nobody said to not use a ranged weapon, or to only use bows or guns.
I've had players not have a ranged, and be useless against flying creatures. Even if you have to nickel and dime him to death with small amounts of damage, it is better than the monster just attacking you at range, and you not being able to do anything about it.
In 2nd Edition, I played a tabaxi kensai/monk that did unarmed strikes and bites. We got attacked by those flying wolf-headed archers that held their bows in their feet and launched spears at us by drawing back the bowstring with both hands. Anyways, I had no ranged weapons, so I had to find a sapling and make a pole-vaulting pole so I could kick them. Very inefficient.
I like the image of softening targets with a javelins, but slings might work better.