Interest Check -- Even Longer Ago In That Galaxy Far, Far Away [Homebrew SWEU / SoP / 3940s BBY]


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I have recently been encouraged by a good friend of mine to develop a campaign set in the SWEU. While I am certainly going to try to gather a face-to-face group for this endeavor, I would be very interested in getting feedback from any of you that would like to participate here on the boards.

DISCLAIMER: This game is still in early development stages, and likely won't crystallize till the beginning of 2018.

Frankly, I've been burned too many times by folks expressing an interest, and then not even getting a first gameplay post made. You can check out my two inactive PbP threads if you need any proof. In other words -- the legwork necessary for this to be a 'real thing' is already being done, but I would need to see a reasonable volume of traffic here in Recruitment first. I know -- we all have needs. :D

In any event, on with some tentative details/exposition:

1) This campaign will be set in the SWEU after the events of the two KotOR games from BioWare, and will borrow heavily from the repercussions of a light-side Exile playthrough. Yes, I'll be breaking from even SWEU 'canon'.

2) Considering the sheer scope of the SWEU, any effective campaign must needs be character-driven. Tying together an assortment of divergent stories to at least one pivotal moment in PCs' timelines would be my job, heavily informed/influenced by player input. As such, feel free to spitball just about any character concept that would interest you; just to throw out a caveat that might be critical -- the Unknown Regions are the Unknown Regions even 40+ ABY, so we're going to leave the Chiss, Vagaari, and "western" portions of the galactic map alone. The presence of the Chiss charric in the KotOR chronology does not mandate their individual presence in the campaign. Sorry, Thrawn fans.

3) Force-use in this game will be mechanically dictated via a strong revision of the Spheres of Power magic system from Drop Dead Studios. Those details will be forthcoming as made necessary by candidates' submissions -- likely through some extensive discussion in the next few months. For instance: Force Zombies are not a 'regular' thing, even for the Sith -- the reanimate (and attendant) power(s) from the Death sphere would not be a 1st-level-accessible power. Attainable, yes; readily available? Goodness, no! Nearly every sphere would require some amount of adjustment in order to be "properly" evocative of the SWEU. We can collaborate!

4) While mechanically 'crunchy' in execution, we won't be using grids or hexes. Though I'm a huge fan of tactical combat, I don't have the necessary tools to bring it to the fore as much as I would typically prefer. We'll be aiming for a more 'cinematic groupthink' narrative than a 'mathematic exploitation' program. Bear that distinction in mind, friends. If we are able to embark upon this quest together, know your character's capabilities, and use them, but be prepared for DM fiat to muddle your efforts. I will do what I will do in pursuit of a good story. Expect to be challenged!

That's all for now, I think. I hope to hear from many of you!!

Dotting so hard. Likely some kind of Droid Scholar, or a Bounty Hunter / Smuggler sort.

Yoricks --

Good to read some interest!!

If bounty hunter/smuggler is your pick, I would be most interested to know: from what world would you hail?

An update:

Now that the Spheres of Might .pdf has been released by Drop Dead Studios, we could incorporate that, as well! It's good that the system is so weapon-agnostic -- it won't be difficult to adapt to the particulars of the SWEU.

Scarab Sages

Very Interested let me think on it, Would love to maybe play an older retired like jedi ... or something smuggler like I havent decided :)

To throw out a few more tidbits of the game's premise:

1) Onderon is actively negotiating with the Republic for membership. Traffic between Onderon and Coruscant has increased accordingly. Some shadowy associates of the ousted General Vaklu are quietly trying to sabotage these efforts.

2) Despite the generally-held opinion on Wookieepedia that bacta was popularized in the galaxy roundabout 4100 BBY, the fact that it merits almost no mention in the KotOR games leads me to think that an emergent trade war between Thyferra, Manaan, and interested corporate/political groups could be a good backdrop for a campaign -- not the whole picture, but a major event, regardless.

3) Word of the new Mandalore's efforts on behalf of the Exile has begun to spread throughout the Mandalorian diaspora. Some are beginning to "migrate" toward Dxun to gauge the measure of this man. Others, as is typical of the Mando'a, can't be bothered to care less, and are continuing business as usual.

4) Czerka Corporation, having lost its claim to Telos IV and its resources, has set its sights elsewhere -- especially worlds just beyond the Republic frontier. It has begun bankrolling expeditions to expand its influence and incomes. The money is good, but the risks are real . . . .

5) Having never recovered from the losses incurred at the Conclave on Katarr, the recent deaths of Masters Vrook, Kavar, and Zez Kai-Ell have nearly crippled the Jedi Order. A handful of Jedi have returned to the temple on Coruscant, having either completed or altogether abandoned their respective missions, and are working to solidify their standing in the Order as the new generation of masters, and to recruit new Padawans as quickly as possible.

6) G0-T0s organizational collapse has created a shocking power vacuum in the Exchange, and particularly in Hutt space. From small-timers to the established sharks of the underworld, all are trying to fill the void in an effort to score the biggest payday. Though never a 'safe place', Nar Shaddaa has nearly erupted into open war, both economic and blasterfire.

Food for thought . . . .

And more to come!

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber


(Not trying to join - I got stuff to do, and am late to doing it, but I'm hearting this to follow, when I can!)

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'Preciate that, Tac!! :)

Just to be clear, it's Star Wars using the Pathfinder system?

The only part that is so far definitively PF is DDS' Spheres of Power system for all things magical Force-related. So far as classes, feats, abilities, skills, etc., I'm still a bit up in the air. I'm interested in any input you have concerning which way you'd like to see it run.

The magic system of SoP is very easy to adapt to any d20 chassis in the vein of 3.0/3.5/PF. The fact that it is automatically limiting on the "scope" of powers one can attain is, I think, very synergistic with established EU content (i.e., the Horn bloodline's lack of telekinetic talent, Windu's gift of shatterpoint, etc.). The "depth" of power one can gain with that system is only limited by player choice; as all spheres gain power via caster level, even a high-level Force-user with a one-talent dip can make practical application down the narrative path.

As I've intimated earlier -- this is still in the development phase, and solidifying the class particulars is a thing I'm willing to hash through. That may be a strategic error, but it's one I'm willing to commit at this point.

Worst-case scenario? We can convert DDS' classes to fit the feel of the SWEU and go from there.

Whatcha think?

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I think PF can definitely work for getting the Star Wars feeling with a lot of classes, especially with adding in the Dreamscarred Press stuff and/or Spheres of Might/Magic.

I would also say that I'd be very much in favour of starting at a higher level than 1, like around 3-5, to get some of the cooler abilities on the field. I'd also recommend these Feat Tax rules, or at the very least, giving everyone Point Blank Shot / Precise Shot for free, since literally every person in Star Wars knows how to shoot a blaster and it is a garbage feat tax to have in the first place.

Here's a shocker: I haven't looked at any Dreamscarred Press content. At least, not that I'm aware of, anyway. I'm not sure that this would be a good time to start in on that material . . . .

RE: the feat taxes -- I like what I'm reading in that link, but let me ponder it a bit more before making a decision about it.

RE: higher than 1st -- I must admit that I prefer running the "grinder" games that challenge from 0th level onward. We *might* go with a higher starting level. Maybe.

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Syrus Terrigan wrote:
Here's a shocker: I haven't looked at any Dreamscarred Press content. At least, not that I'm aware of, anyway. I'm not sure that this would be a good time to start in on that material . . . .

I'd say consider reading up on it a bit, especially since it's all on D20pfsrd anyway, and this game isn't planned to start until 2018. Their take on Psionics is more of the "You have a pool of power points" rather than hard spell slots, and the Path of War stuff adds a lot of martial "abilities" that make them more fun to play.

I think there are things in each that would feel pretty thematic, at any rate!

Roger that, Yoricks!

Considering I just elected for funemployment a couple hours ago, I should have some time to do just that over the next week or so!

I'll throw my hat in the ring-- thankfully early 18' gives me the chance to get this new format under my belt, and brush up on some literature. Hope to see y'all come game time. Keep it up Syrus!

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

One of the biggest issues that almost all tabletop SW games have had is how the Force interacts with the normal person. More plainly, the Force is always OP. As well it is meant to be based on the SW universe. I'd be interested to see that relationship in-game.

Fortunately, no mechanical issues has ever stopped my love for the SW universe.

I'd like to "put in my hat" for an aspiring crime lord. Something that I was able to start once before, but it fizzled before I could truly start running. The idea of a power vacuum left from G0T0 is very interesting.

Good to read you, Saashaa!

I thoroughly approve the idea of an aspiring crime lord. Spice? Arms? Kolto? Other sanctioned commodities?

In other news:

1) The mageknight class has been pre-approved as the chassis for all 'guardian'-type Force-using classes.

EDIT: I almost forgot -- the first change to be made to the mageknight is this: *4* skill ranks per level. Which prompts this, for clarification -- we're looking at a 4/6/8 distribution. I'll not force people into thumb-twiddling. Choose your skills wisely.

2) Our first spherecasting update: The Conjuration and Creation spheres are locked out. However, as Force ghosts are a thing in the SWEU, the Bound Creature boon *is* an option for characters to use; it will be subject to adjustment as we go along.

3) The KotOR games (especially the second) had mechanics in place to address the difficulties of using Force powers from the other side of the spectrum; this is a concept I want to embrace. The crunch of that effort is a difficult thing to define, though. My tentative model puts 16 of the 20 spheres as firmly neutral, while Life, Light, and Protection are firmly light-side aligned; Dark, Death, and Destruction being dark-side aligned.

The costs of "crossing over" could be as simple as opposing powers costing an additional spell Force point to use -- this is a somewhat clean solution, if perhaps oversimplified. An alternate means could be increasing casting time by one step, representing how much one must push oneself to break (violate?) the standards which one keeps.

I am interested in your feedback -- this is something I believe needs to be firmly established prior to beginning gameplay. Once we reach a consensus on this, that is how it will be.

4) The 'sentinel' class is presenting a puzzle in its translation to the system. It would be very easy to just say '3/4 BAB, mid-casting, 6 skill ranks' and be done . . . . But that's almost too easy. The sentinels were very much the 'I can do everything!' class, and as such were as diverse as could be. I'm inclined to say that we need a chassis that allows for three customizations -- combat, skills, or Force-use. While it's true you can "get there" from most any place with the spheres systems, I do want this to be a fairly 'easy-to-use' game. Thoughts?

5) The consular will be much less an issue, though I admit to a degree of apprehension concerning lightsaber proficiency. The incanter is a good 'rough draft' -- if your interest lies along those lines, start there.

6) I'm going to try to port the lightsaber forms over directly from KotOR II. The Force forms are going to require some examination. I'll keep you updated on that.

7) Last item for this post: I'm going to begin building a master document for this campaign, which will eventually be placed in a campaign info tab. I don't know yet whether I will assemble it piecemeal or just have a 'grand opening', but trust, friends, that it is on its way. Until then, PM me with any matters you wish kept discreet, and feel free to hash out all else here.

People, thank you for your interest, support, and feedback! I cannot express how excited I am to make this game a reality!

Syrus Terrigan wrote:
4) The 'sentinel' class is presenting a puzzle in its translation to the system. It would be very easy to just say '3/4 BAB, mid-casting, 6 skill ranks' and be done . . . . But that's almost too easy. The sentinels were very much the 'I can do everything!' class, and as such were as diverse as could be. I'm inclined to say that we need a chassis that allows for three customizations -- combat, skills, or Force-use. While it's true you can "get there" from most any place with the spheres systems, I do want this to be a fairly 'easy-to-use' game. Thoughts?

I can't speak to the Sphere's system because I haven't read it yet, but for a standard PF chassis to build the class from, I'd take a look at the Vilgante.

It's 3/4ths with 6 Skill points and Talents. Then it has the option of gaining either full BAB or a Sneak Attack ability. And the Zealot archetype loses that option and drops to 4+Int skills and drops some talents in favour of 6th-level spellcasting.

I also think that that kind of "Talents" system would be perfect for the Sentinel style. Maybe half being Force-based and half being not (in the way that the vigilante has half for Social Identity and half for Vigilante). That way they have coverage on things like diplomacy or stealth or medicine or whatever and it's pretty simple but has a lot of opportunity for customisation.

Agh!! Hemlock!! Kryptonite!! Political commentary!!!

The vigilante??!!



We can do better.


Apologies for the late acknowledgement, Avacyn restored! Very glad you're interested!

Getting back to some things mentioned earlier by Yoricks --

I think you'll find the Spheres of Power system very similar to the way you've described Dreamscarred's psionics. Essentially, SoP says there are 20 basic spells in the world; every spell we've used in 3.x/PF can be 'built' from modifications of those 20 'roots'. In some ways, SoP reduces your versatility simply because you're unlikely to be able to mimic *both* create pit and magic missile by 3rd level (though I'm sure you *could*, but it would likely take all of your feats and talents to do so -- or the vast majority thereof, at least). However, if you have a particular theme/style of play as your build objective, SoP is *the* magic system you want.

Fireball is probably one of the greatest (in terms of recognition, at least) benchmark spells for arcane casters in d20 games. You can get it, in effect, at first level with spherecasting. With the proper feat selection, you can *do it ALL day*.

If you're at all familiar with the 3.x warlock class, you'll recall the utter satisfaction of the eldritch blast ability. The Destruction sphere is essentially that same ability, and customizable to the nth degree.

You want to teleport? Warp sphere.
Summoning? Conjuration.
Haste? Time.
Polymorphing? Alteration.

And all of them at level one. No joke.

Spheres of Power

I don't like the way the page is set up, but it accurately parallels the pattern DDS used to present it. There is a great deal of information through which to sift. With diligence, and maybe some guidance, you can find what you seek.
All that said, though, I don't really want us to turn this into Pathfinder in the SW galaxy. If you want fireball, I recommend thermal detonators.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

I think that their should be no penalization for cross-over force powers. One of the biggest reasons Jedi fall is because it is so easy.

On the same force powers note, I'd like to see the light side powers, as a whole, being as powerful as dark side powers, as a whole. Not as much equal in firepower as equal in combat usefulness. Buffs and/or defense vs raw firepower is my thought. Maybe even include more synergy between different light side force users than dark.

One's "alignment" on the light/dark spectrum can change easily, and thereby affect that mechanical cost, Saashaa. At least, that's what I have in mind. But, there may be a "middle way" . . . .

Sphere abilities, as written, require that the requisite talents be taken in order to use them. Since the mythos has explicit instances of Force-users "semi-spontaneously" using powers for which they've had no specific training, though (Jacen Solo's use of Force lightning during the Yuuzhan Vong conflict comes to mind), I think we may be justified in setting up some mechanical means for achieving similar events.

Hmmmm . . . . An interesting wrinkle, that. Thank you for prompting that!! It bears more consideration.
I think that exploring the Spheres of Power wiki will demonstrate that such synergy already exists -- though I may not be following your full intent properly. Care to elaborate?

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

Eh.., an insubstantial finishing thought on my part.

So, I was thinking about throwing out some possible "launch point" ideas for the game, just to spark some additional interest --

1) Citadel Station over Telos: We've got a tie-in to Exchange business. Czerka is wrapping up their efforts on the planet surface ('Cause what corporation *doesn't* drag its feet when it suits?). There's a significant Republic presence here -- both military and diplomatic. It's not too far from Mandalorian space. The last remnants of wreckage from the battle against Nihilus' fleet still needs to be reclaimed.

2) Coruscant: Jedi hooks galore (perhaps your 'retired Jedi' has returned there in response to the Purge, TheNine?). What better place for Czerka to commission an expedition than Galactic Center? Negotiation and intrigue with the Onderonian Embassy.

3) Yag'Dhul Station: With the Givins playing host to a broad assortment of interests, we have a reasonable line to a hook for the bacta/kolto "crisis". Republic outpost. Crossroads for two established hyperlanes.

4) Name your poison!: If the group hivemind can arrive at a place that suits everyone, we can go from there.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

I suppose the ideal start would depend on the characters people want to play.

Naturally. Sometimes, though, inspiration for particular characters comes from odd quarters.

For my part, I'd love to see:

1) a Givin (+2 Con, +2 Int, -2 Str, -2 Cha; +2 Astrogation/Knowledge (mathematics and engineering) checks)*
2) a soldier (aka SoM conscript) from one of the three major factions (Mando, Republic, Sith)
3) a pilot (I'm trying to build a few starships, regardless)
4) a droid (that droid scholar idea could be awesome)
5) just about anything

* - That's just me spitballing; I haven't seen a source with any d20 stats for Givin.

A couple of my face-to-face pals have been kicking around ideas like: Force-sensitive Mando scout, Force-sensitive bounty hunter, Life sphere consular, to name a few.
An initial list of worlds I can get things together for quickly:

Nar Shaddaa
Ord Mantell
Sluis Van
Empress Teta

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

I'll throw my hat in with some sort of mental stat monkey (That isn't a droid). I'm not 100% on what mechanics to use to build though.

I'll have an update on the skills list sometime tomorrow. It'll mostly be a conversion breakdown, but definitive.

As for classes: do you have access to Spheres of Might or Spheres of Power? What about any of the d20 Star Wars rulebooks?

Classes to be emulated or outright copied:

Guardian (SoP mageknight)
Force adept (think Zeison Sha, Baran Do sage, Aing-tii [as a Force-user, not the race, necessarily], Donnie Yen's character in Rogue One, etc.)
Tech specialist
Soldier (SoM conscript)

I know that the mechanics of class and race are still up in the air, but I encourage you to try to hammer something out on your own, and submit it. You have nothing to lose on that point.

If you can get the Spheres of Might PDF, do so. $15 well spent.

I really enjoy converting the core PF classes to their sphere counterparts -- you can't go wrong taking something familiar and tweaking it to match a character you envision.

Would you like to see a couple sample characters for me to show what I have in mind?

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

Sure. I will also look over the Noble and maybe Scoundrel (for the skills an' stuff)

EDIT: The noble has a lot of solid class abilities.

I'm curious if you've looked at the SW Edge of the Empire system at all?

EDIT2: I like many things about the mechanics of the Noble and Scoundrel. I don't think there is a balanced way to incorporate the things I want from each together. For a general concept for a character I think I'd go noble with a 1 lvl dip in scoundrel.

Liberty's Edge

This is my dot, I'm a big SoP/SoM fan and I have way too many ideas to settle on one. My top three: Twi'lek Elementalist (battle-y Jedi Consular), Togruta Eliciter (Mind Tricks forever), Miraluka Armiger (Scoundrel/Assassin).

Starfinder could help, in case of rules questions.

Another note, Path of War and Spheres of Might largely do similar things, but in my experience they have different power curves, I'm not sure that they would work together well. On the other hand, PoW generally focuses on damage, SoM on utility and possibilities.

I'll start playing around with some things. I've got a few things in mind for the Droid.

Folks --

My apologies for not getting that skills post submitted yesterday; evidently I needed more sleep. Who knew funemployment could be so exhausting?

I just wanted to leave a message so y'all knew what was up. Considering that it's 7 AM local, here, I'll probably get it put up before starting my "real life stuff".

Tentative Skills List:

Acrobatics - Dex
Appraise - Int
Astrogation - Int (separate skill because it *is* possible you'd need to plot a jump *without* a functioning navicomputer??)
Athletics - Str
Bluff - Cha
Computer Use - Int
Diplomacy - Cha
Disguise - Cha
Force Sense - Int/Wis ("Spellcraft/UMD catchall")
Handle Animal - Wis/Cha
Intimidate - Cha
Knowledge (varies) - Int
Linguistics - Int
Mechanics - Int
Medicine - Int/Wis
Perception - Wis
Pilot - Dex
Profession - Wis/Cha
Sense Motive - Wis
Sleight of Hand - Dex
Stealth - Dex
Survival - Wis

Again, this is just tentative. Post any feedback you've got!

I have been pondering what to do about the other two base Force-user classes. The consular should be a pretty easy thing, but it's the sentinel that gets it murky.

Fix 1) Just make it Pathfinder in the SWEU. It's simple, just asks for a little refluffing of some naming conventions, and we're done. It would effectively make all the 1/2 BAB casters consular archetypes, and all the 3/4 into sentinel archetypes. No fuss at all (except from my internal dialogue).

Fix 2) Construct baseline classes for both, and allow them to be adjusted to incorporate things like the eliciter's Mind sphere shenanigans or the elementalist's Destruction sphere potential. The trouble there is establishing the baseline.

For example -- my first instinct regarding the consular is to just rebrand the sorcerer, and probably give it a Ref save bonus ranging from +1 to +9 (a "moderate" saving throw progression, if you will). Then we can build an archetype for it based on the wizard -- we'll call it the "Force sage" --, and it will get the 3-point sphere specialization (caveats and addenda!!), and 3 talents per two levels.

Now, all that being said, we start to run into a few hitches, centered on the drawbacks for each class. Spherecasting does not require verbal, somatic, material, prepared, or focus casting -- all things with which we're familiar in Pathfinder-land. When you examine the SW mythos, about the only drawback you see any evidence of is the somatic casting drawback -- at least for Jedi and Sith.

**SIDEBAR: The Zeison Sha Force tradition would focus on Telekinesis. The Baran Do, either Weather or Divination. The Fallanassi, Illusion or Mind.**

However, that drawback has almost no meaning (whether taken once, or twice) based upon the proficiencies in armor allowed by the classes. I rather doubt that anyone would want to go to a heavier armor type in this game; maybe I'm wrong.

Fix 3) I'm sure there's another way. I'm just not smart enough to come up with it.
A string of questions:

1) What about the lightsaber and Force forms? Level-based bonus features based on class and level, like KotOR II? If yes, then the non-Force classes will need some bonus features -- and I'm more than cool with that.

2) Lightsabers at level one? Yikes, but that's strong. And we'd still have to make it an exotic weapon proficiency.

3) The previous SW d20 games had a very different system for HP and damage. That reflects well upon the sci-fi concept; we want to avoid +3 speed grayflame heavy blasters and the like. We can just port damage dice over, let ability damage be the same as it is in PF, and call it a day. *Or* we can use Wound Points, too.

More to come! Keep posting, folks!!

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

1) Why can't force forms be like style feats?

2) Thematically, yes at lvl 1 makes sense. Mechanically, yes as you described it, yikes! Therein is the first of many obstacles with balance issues between force and non force users. The beginning to the resolution is deciding if you are okay with an imbalance..

If yes then....make blasters and such almost as powerful. This will lead to the game being an often character death game.

If no then...probably want to fid a way to ramp damage as characters level. Something along the lines of Starfinder is probably best.

3) having a dual pool of HP/WP/SP or something tends to make a game feel more fluid to me. This seems like a solid preference thing.


Fix 1) You'd probably be better off having some mix between pathfinder and starfinder. SF is pretty good with interclass versatility with their class specific talent based system.

Fix 2) You could establish a basic tri-class system where at each base is a different bab (i.e. 1, 3/4, 1/2 or 1, 4/5, 3/5) on another spectrum you have some type of class specific abilities (i.e. talents, spells / foce powers, etc..) and maybe a third spectrum of skills. During character creation you decide within the division where you want each to be.


Fix 3) Have player created classes

For example: Lets just say we'll use the 1, 3/4, 1/2 progressions

I want to make a fighter type I choose the BAB to use the 1. Now I have the 3/4 and 1/2 left to pick from. I want my fighter to be skillful so I choose my skills to progress at 3/4. Finally that leaves me with abilities to be at 1/2 progression. So my final character level progression looks like...

Full BAB 1-20
6 skill ranks per level
theme(that I have chosen) specific abilites every 3 or 4 levels (i.e. 3, 6, 9 or 1, 4, 8, 12)

Maybe even add a 4th spectrum for feats so.. 1, 3/4, 1/2, 1/4 or something

TOTAL SIDEBAR: Soapbox Time! (spoilered for content and volatility)

Told ya!:
1) The film Disney released back in 2015 was complete garbage. Why we had to wait nearly 40 years for a badly-done rehash of Episode IV and have it branded as "new", I will never be able to excuse.

2) Rogue One, despite being poorly named (Really?! Can't leave well enough alone, can we??!), indicated a modicum of effort. However -- I can't even stand to watch it a second time. And I've tried -- **three times**!!

3) Timothy Zahn wrote Episodes VII, VIII, and IX over 20 years ago. All hail Grand Admiral Thrawn!!

. . . .

No, really -- I warned ya. :)

Figured it might give y'all some insight into the way things will go in the future.

An addendum to the skill list:

I have no idea how I skipped this!! Oh, the shame!!!

Demolitions (Dex/Int)

An additional update:

My friend and I spent the last 6.5 hours brainstorming on ways to effectively represent the classes (mundane *and* Force-using) through generic lenses, and we made a great deal of progress. We hashed through the Force classes, the tech specialist, and touched upon the scout and scoundrel. As should not be surprising, everything is still up in the air; however, we're getting some solid development work done. We're currently aiming at making all the things that appeal in SoP available options; the SoM stuff is under scrutiny in the coming days. We are getting there!

Lightsabers and Lightsaber Forms
Lightsabers will be available at 1st level, in a non-upgradeable form. They will deal energy damage, as in KotOR, and we're probably going to forgo the 'wound points' mechanic in favor of the combat options provided by the spheres. Building your own lightsaber will make upgrades possible, and that will come sometime between levels 5 and 7 (probably 5, since they'll be less lethal with the abandonment of the wound point mechanic).

The seven lightsaber forms are posing an intriguing challenge. I very much want to make them part of the game, if only to keep flavor in a mechanical fashion. That said, though, I think there are greater depths to be mined than just throwing in the forms 'as is' from KotOR. The novelization of Episode III points to Dooku's recognition of Shii-Cho and Ataru tactics suddenly being altered mid-combat to Soresu and Shien (at least, I *think* it was Shien), and that the latter two had been mastered. That makes me think that not only are there seven forms, but there are levels of advancement for each. That could go one of two ways: a) you choose a form at level one, and as you advance you can continue to focus on it until you get it "fully mastered" (i.e., it finally gets the full range of modifiers, *or* b) the form of your choice is what it is from the word go, and you can eventually unlock better progressions of it as you advance. No matter which way we go with it, we're setting it up so any class can master one (maybe two or three) form and dabble in a couple others, or you could learn them all (apart from some class-based restrictions).

Starship Design and Operation
I hate the fact that neither the Revised nor Saga rulebooks have systematic means of building starships from scratch. They should. I have an old d20 supplement that has a system, but it translates so poorly as to be nearly useless.

Furthermore: Hyperspace travel is a beast. The Revised rules are a grind; the Saga rules are entirely too easy. I want it to make sense in terms of speed and distance, but getting from Bonadan to Eriadu in 12 hours with a Class 0.5 hyperdrive is ridiculous. (No, we won't have "speed of plot" hyperdrives in my game -- Scarif to Yavin in under 20 minutes??!! Ummm, no.) I think I'm going to have to lay out a galactic map of my own in order to facilitate Astrogation and travel. Fun times!!

Till next time!

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

I still think that lightsaber forms would be best implemented as style feats. They have chains, often 3 tiers. Plus for force users you could just give a free one of choice at 1st lvl or something.

Yeah, the notion was to give the 'entry-level' tier of a lightsaber form to each Jedi/Sith character -- and you could basically choose one of either Shii-Cho, Makashi, or Soresu for starters. My primary collaborator (the one who kinda got this whole ball rolling) has suggested that investment in some of the 'lower' forms being prerequisite for accessing Ataru, Shien, Niman, and Juyo.

I think the style feats you've pointed to, Saashaa, could be granted at reasonable class levels to the non-Jedi/Sith characters -- 'cause one or two independent 'Force adepts' could certainly find a home in this game!
Anybody got their character ideas 'locked-in' yet? The sooner I have something concrete with which to work, the sooner I can weave story threads together!

Liberty's Edge

I'd probably stick with the Eliciter, that could perfectly work on its own as a Mind Trick-focused Consular. A bit torn on races, though. Basic idea would be a force sensitive, not formally trained, grown up in the slums [standard scoundrel background] and adept at using mind tricks to get by. Possibly scouted by someone force-trained and taught to use the Force, possibly self-taught.

About classes... I don't know. I know precious little of game design, perhaps restricting the field to fewer classes could be easier. Or, even better, work with each player to find common grounds case-by-case, and adjust balance en route.

Skills look good, and having Forms as style feats seems appropriate, perhaps giving them as bonus to Jedi-Sith characters.

Perhaps Starfinder can be adapted for starship building?

Our initial class brainstorming session (which pointed at the possibility of the mageknight no longer serving as the default 'guardian' class) pointed toward keeping the total number of classes limited, yes. This is our beginning list:

Gunslinger (Yeah, I know, right?!)
Tech Specialist
{Force Adept} (This one is a *maybe*, but better fits with what you've just described, Sapiens.)

We've been trying to hammer out how best to arrive at allowing for the eliciter/elementalist/similar "defining characteristics" to port over to this jury-rigged system (and we can't take 20 on the Mechanics/Repair check, more's the pity), perhaps in place of the lightsaber form progressions. It calls for a certain degree of customizability, and we're continuing to hash through it as opportunity allows (We really only get the chance to do any developmental work on Saturdays, so we brainstorm through the week and then have 'jam sessions' in the afternoon on Saturday.).

For instance -- the Weave Energy ability of the elementalist is pretty strong, in my opinion, and could easily be used to account for a certain amount of "Force form" training. Likewise the eliciter's mind tricks. This weekend we're going to work out what it takes to get those abilities to essentially "equate". With the lightsaber forms, I mean.

One of the things that we're noticing is that the scout and scoundrel classes (even in the Revised and Saga source material) are aggravatingly similar. Also, that the tech specialist is too easily too weak to want to play (unless, of course, you want to have a solid enough Mechanics/Repair bonus to be able to auto-repair most anything on a starship, short of rebuilding one -- as an example). Still more work to be done there, too.

But it's all moving along! Looking forward to more input from you, folks!

Liberty's Edge

There are a few options for a tech specialist: Machinesmith and, when it hits the SRDs, Spheres of Might's Technician. I'm playing one and it's very funny, it has customized equipment and gadgets to be configured on the fly.

Hia :) Quick dot in, I don't have time to do a lengthy post right now.

After doing a quick read though I basically have the idea of what I would like to create. A Jedi.
The basic concept would be to go for the Armorist class with the Whitesmith archetype for the first level. Then give him the Deflect Arrows feat without the prerequisites (if you allow it), and change it to require you wielding a weapon instead of requiring you to have a hand free.
That gives me the basic martial ability of a Jedi.

Every level afterwards I will go in Incanter and focus almost entirely on the Telekinesis Sphere to emulate the Jedi Force powers. The Incanter gets LOTS of talents with which to dump into the bottomless pit known as the Telekinesis Sphere so that should satisfy him for the rest of the game.

The Whitesmith level will give him his basic combat ability and also allow him to "charge" or "power" his weapon using the power of the Force, if it is not a lightsaber, it can be powered to emulate one. If he DOES have a lightsaber then he can empower it further. It will also emulate him and his Force powers as they buffer his combat ability even if the rest of the majority of his focus is on his powers. The deflect arrows feat is just iconic of the Jedi :)

Ideally, the finished character should be able to hold his own in melee, and then stretch out his hand and force-push something, or force-pull a gun out of someones hand. Then later levitate an object with his force powers, then switch back to swinging his lightsaber.
The potential lightsaber style feats would also interest me :)

However, I am noticing that the trend of your character classes is moving further away from preset Pathfinder/SoP and further into custom built classes that more closely emulate the narrower selection available in the video game. Continuing to do so may make my character idea moot if you rule against it.
So I might not be able to do this by the end of it :(

Also, on a different note, I am realizing that I am going to have to read up a fair bit on the Starwars universe to get myself up to speed, I am lacking in the lore department :)


Syrus Terrigan wrote:

For my part, I'd love to see:

4) a droid (that droid scholar idea could be awesome)

If you allow me access to the Race Builder rules and the ability to pull from the SoP document, then I can create for you a half-dozen different droids from the Starwars Universe. I am very good at creating different races, and I have done so for quite a few different scenarios.

I have created the Claptraps from Borderlands (at the bottom), I have created Andalites and Yeerks from the Animorphs books, I have created Beasts of Burden and Toxic frogs. And I had an entire campaign that was designed completely around just creating races in and experimental lab. (Fun! But short lived)
Point is, I can design the rules for all/most of the Droids in the Starwars universe for you to use, and maybe even a few other races besides.

When I do so, I will most likely create them without the intent of being a player character, so that you can use them in the bigger world more easily. It is simple enough to downgrade them to PC power levels as needed :)
Also, depending on the power of the droid, I will probably build a 0HD version and a fully statted version with (X) hit dice, as needed.

Edit: Short post ended up not being very short >_>

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

The noble class had some class abilities that interested me. Also some of the prestige classes would be interesting to be implemented in some way.

Prestige classes will be just that -- prestige classes. They're actually easier to implement than base classes!

What abilities of the noble appealed to you? I mean . . . it's too much like a bard to suit me. :D But we can run 'em!

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

Resource access was interesting to me. The idea was kinda like batman, his superpower is having money.

Just posting to say that I'm still following this and am working up some ideas for my Droid character.

Scarab Sages

The same still following and hammering out a concept

I just found this thread, and I'm super interested in contributing! I've got a concept for a Mando Soldier whom I played in a homebrew tabletop game years ago. Consider this my dot, I'll be following closely

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