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Can we please update the Improved Unarmed Strike feat so that it includes giving unarmed strikes the "Operative" property? So that Operatives can use the trick attack class feature with them and others can use their DEX for attack rolls with them? It just makes sense and seems like something that was overlooked and unintentional. Thoughts?
Agreed with Tarik.
Other than it being something that worked similarly in Pathfinder, there isn't really much reason to think this should work.
It would also make Vesk Operatives insanely powerful.
I think a good compromise would be to make it finessable, not not an operative weapon (I know this doesn't exist currently.) And fwiw US only receives 1/2 specialization as is because it it a basic melee weapon.
If you make Unarmed strike an operative weapon, the only class that has any use for it at all is the operative, because you are reducing specialization damage to 1/2 level.Any character can use their DEX instead of STR when wielding weapons with the Operative property, not just Operatives.
the half specialization bonus applies with either stat. For the most part, only operatives WANT to use operatives weapons. Your suggestion would negate the ability for a soldier to punch hard.
I think a good compromise would be to make it finessable, not not an operative weapon (I know this doesn't exist currently.) And fwiw US only receives 1/2 specialization as is because it it a basic melee weapon.
While Small Arms weapons categorically only get 1/2 specialization, when it comes to Melee weapons only Operative weapons don't get full specialization.
It does gain full specialization! I didn't realize that, that's awesome! :D Still I'd like to see a feat that would allow a character (not just an operative) to use dex for to hit bonus. Also I want a way (besides being vesk) to remove the archaic descriptor.
Every character can use Dexterity as their to-hit stat when using Operative Weapons. They also add only half their character level to damage when using those same weapons, whether they attack with Dexterity or Strength.
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I'd rather Improved Unarmed Strike be errata'd so you deal lethal damage and the attack is no longer considered archaic.
I actually don't want that errata. I think it fits the setting better that most people, fighting other people in futuristic armor, should be using WEAPONS, and not their fists.
Now, if they wish to produce a class, or even an archetype, which is some 'space monk' that fights dudes in power armor with his pinky finger, I would think that was AWESOME. But I don't personally want it to be available to every class with this one feat. I also wouldn't object to some Greater Unarmed Strike feat that did it.
As it is, the feat allows someone to be a dangerous brawler. When fighting other people outside of armor and the like, the guy with the feat is definitely more dangerous than his comrades without it, but he doesn't suddenly become a credible threat to the dude in Monolith armor. Don't get in a fistfight with her, but she shouldn't start fistfights with power armored nutters either.
That also retains a design space for races like the Vesk (and possibly others in the future) who ARE clawed fiends from outer space.
Can we please update the Improved Unarmed Strike feat so that it includes giving unarmed strikes the "Operative" property? So that Operatives can use the trick attack class feature with them and others can use their DEX for attack rolls with them? It just makes sense and seems like something that was overlooked and unintentional. Thoughts?
I think a better compromise might be to simply state that Unarmed Strikes qualify for Trick Attack and otherwise leave them as they are.
Sci Fi shows are FULL of examples of the hero sneaking up and knocking out mooks/guards in Hand to Hand combat. Just watch nearly any episode of any Star Trek.
I think a better compromise might be to simply state that Unarmed Strikes qualify for Trick Attack and otherwise leave them as they are.
In that case unarmed strike would be the best weapon in the game by far for trick attack (even more for a vesk).
I actually don't want that errata. I think it fits the setting better that most people, fighting other people in futuristic armor, should be using WEAPONS, and not their fists.
There's plenty of good reasons why an unarmed combatant isn't out of place in a science fantasy setting.
Now, if they wish to produce a class, or even an archetype, which is some 'space monk' that fights dudes in power armor with his pinky finger, I would think that was AWESOME. But I don't personally want it to be available to every class with this one feat. I also wouldn't object to some Greater Unarmed Strike feat that did it.
Requiring another feat is completely unreasonable. In this game, any character can be good with a weapon using just two feats. You're suggesting a character needs two feats just to not have huge penalties in a weapon.
Even with Improved Unarmed Strike, unarmed strikes are still way behind the damage curve compared to comparable advanced melee weapons.
I know I'm engaging in thread necromancy, but in case someone winds up here while trying to find the answer to this same question, like I did, here it is;
Scoundrel's Finesse allows anyone to treat unarmed strikes, glove like weapons, and whip like weapons as if they had the operative quality. However, while trick attacks can be made, and status effects applied by that means, trick attack damage can't be dealt this way. It is worth noting that this feat is not SFS legal, and it is not classified as a combat feat, so a Soldier (like a Aesthetic Warrior Qi Adept) can't take it as a bonus feat.
Death Strike is an Operative exploit that allows an Operative to make their unarmed strikes operative weapons, and properly make trick attacks with them.
and a Nanocyte can use Unarmed Strike as a Swarm Strike too.